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Add a Arena System

Discussion in 'Game Design Discussion' started by Avenging Martyr, Feb 24, 2016.

  1. Avenging Martyr

    Avenging Martyr Celestial
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    That's right. An arena system.

    First off this is a suggestion and not a priority one. Lots to focus on but this would be excellent so just hear me out.

    Edited it : My Arena system idea has changed alot since I originally posted this. PENETRATOR made a excellent point about not being instanced. My latest response to Finnad is a larger change. I am leaving this post as is so you can see how this started and adding this edit so you know my idea has been changed a few times since this was first posted.

    I think dueling arena in the capitals and chaos cities would be excellent.

    Create a NPC and place it near the bank at those locations. This NPC is the "Arena Master" When you talk to him you get the option to "Register a challenge" or "Join a Duel".

    When you select "Register a challenge" A window opens with some yes or no options. Click the appropriate boxes.

    Make it so you can choose full loot or no looting. To the death or just until downed. Would you like to make a wager and a window for a amount if yes. Casting in Holding Cages allowed? (I'd say always allow healing inside Holding Cages and they will be explained soon if you can't already guess lol) Maybe make more options so you can do a 2v2 or 3v3 fights as well. So casuals could practice or pros could slay each other within as individuals or teams and not lose alignment.

    Make it instanced sort of like the new player dungeons. If possible they should be spawnable (as in the instance is created once registration is complete) for each duel so multiple duels could happen at the same time. Definately the most complex part I imagine. There might be other methods but that's what I thought of.

    So to enter the arena a player just needs to carry a gearbag and talk to the NPC to register. Creates one and waits for the other player ( At chaos cities you would most likely have the bank window open and ready to bank the gearbag in case someone tries to gank you XD). There should be a option for the orginal creator to kick the other person from the duel in case someone is messing with people or the wrong person registers.


    or they can select "Join a duel" and pick from a list of whatever duels are registered. With a little description window saying what options have been chosen so the player knows what is or is not on the line or allowed. It would be interesting if this arena system was linked globally within agon.

    Once both people are registered the original creator of the duel needs to tell the "Arena Master" to start the fight. Then a little 3 second countdown and magically "teleport" them into the area. Start them in "Holding Cages" on opposite walls.


    Once spawned inside the holding cages give them 1-2 minutes (Maybe make it another option?) to gear up/buff up or just gear up/heal (In case someone tried to kill you before the match) depending on the settings you chose. Once finished give the winner a couple minutes to loot if that's enabled.

    Anyways there would be several points for having this arena. It would allow anyone from the newest players to the veterans a method of dueling each other in a safe/controlled enviroment for Loot & Glory or training purposes.

    So you can risk life and gear or choose not to. Noone can jump in and turn the tide. You don't need to know them or trust them to duel. You can play to kill or not worry about actually killing if your not intending to (friendly duel or training). You could play for keeps and teach that one guy a lesson. New Players could train with each other safely if linked globally from a distance.

    I'm on cairn? Some newb I for some reason like in Mahirim lands needs to be taught I don't need to travel that far to train him Go to a chaos city, watch my ass and train with him while hes in thier capital.

    If someone was good enough and consistantly wagered while winning they could live off it. You could call out your enemies and call them cowards for not accepting. Especially if you say full loot + wager. It would add another layer to the game. Good for everyone in different ways.

    Again this wouldn't be a priority in any way but it's a decent idea XD

    Yes/No? Any changes or additons to the overall idea? Love to hear some thoughts on this.
     
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    #1 Avenging Martyr, Feb 24, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2016
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  2. PENETRATOR

    PENETRATOR Earth Elemental
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    The wager system could be cool. Where both of you agree on stakes before the fight and winnings automatically distributed afterwards.

    But you cannot suggest another instanced place away from Darkfall world. We already hoping that transitions into dungeons will be non-instanced one day.

    Also, duels could not be allowed in NPC cities.

    Darkfall should be a huge breathing world. Anything thats takes away from it is a no go in my book.

    So theoretically, wagering/duel "place" would be cool in Darkfall, but it would have to be player driven and managed aka anyone can interrupt it if they desire. Except with prizes, we will need devs help with that.
     
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  3. SuB ZeRo

    SuB ZeRo Black Knight
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    No

    Takes away the sandbox element of risk. Gets rid of middlemen, creates an instanced world safe from others.

    If you chose to duel someone I should be able to run up and kill whoever wins and take both your gear-bags away.
     
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  4. Gotja

    Gotja Chosen of Khamset
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    Would be fun to just log in and queue up for fights. You would still need to go out and farm gear so there would still be open world pvp.

    Also it would make the game into a potential esport.

    It would never happen though
     
  5. Ultra Combo

    Ultra Combo Spellgazer

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    Sounds like a great idea but its not. Ive seen what this does to games. Ultima Online is my only example. Its an old ass game I know but they put in dueling pits. They are great fun times dueling people. Sub zero is right though there is no risk involved in a dueling pit. People stopped fighting in the open world pvp and just hung around the dueling pits. After a while thats all anyone ever did was sit by the dueling pit. Rarely did anyone pvp in the Open world. I would not like to see that happen in darkfall.
     
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  6. Avenging Martyr

    Avenging Martyr Celestial
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    Automatically distributing the wager would be the idea.

    Yeah I was thinking about that. It could be done otherwise without instances. Just abit harder I think. They would need to build arenas and place them. Just at chaos cities maybe?

    Though cutting out npc access isn't good from my perspective. Since new players wouldn't want to bother running to a chaos city just to duel in the arena. It wouldn't really be viable for practice either. Increasing the risk to the point where alot of casuals or newer players would not bother. Basically cutting off a large section of the playerbase from this idea.

    It would become limited to veterans or the heavily pvp inclined used the system. Even then it wouldn't be used nearly as much just because it wasn't as easily accessible.

    I personally really do like the idea of a global system accessable from capital npc cities and chaos cities. You couldn't add on a arena to a capital. Not really possible unless everything was redone and that's not practical. So maybe having a arena master in the npc capitals that teleports you into the holding cages and back if you selected no death or won a full loot duel.

    I understand your take on non instanced part and I agree on that overall but I don't see why you think this would take away from the world.

    If noobs fight each other without risking loot somewhere how does that affect you negatively? Sure they are safe but they may just learn enough skills to try open world pvp instead of hiding at crap pve spawns. Gain enough confidence in thier skills to fight back instead of attempt to run away every damn time.

    It could be enjoyed by casuals and hardcore players alike. The people who would use the NPC cities to use the arena system would be the less skilled of the playerbase. It would be a great tool for actual fights or for practice and training.

    I'd love to do a player driven underground fighting arena but seriously in this community? Rules wouldn't be enforced, people would be ganking left and right. System would be abandoned faster than a leper at the oscars.

    This is darkfall, there is risks around every corner in the world. You don't want to give casual or new players one little place where they could practice pvp without losing thier stuff? As I said to PENETRATOR if they practice and get some confidence you'll see them out in the world. Those hopeless newbs slowly turning into real combatants.

    I've changed my stance on the instanced bit, left it in the original message so people see the overall discussion as it progresses.

    Middle men have no place in a proper arena/tournament system. In any realistic situation there would be lots of guards and swift death to the attackers but without employing humans we are left with game mechanics.

    Think back to darkfall. You couldn't practice in peace unless it was a full on tournament and there were 40+ good players who'd kick anyones ass who fucked with the tournament and it would still get raided. It was impossible for small groups to do shit like that and usually it didn't go smoothly even when the best tried to set it up.

    Killing anyone who tries to duel or practice fighting works great in a dead niche combat game. However if we want casuals to stick around we need methods for them to train and practice. This system would be good fun for veterans and hardcore players. It would be a even better training platform for newer players.

    As great as darkfall is the ruthless pvp system is what kills our casual population. Specially when you include griefers and others who play the game solely to enjoy another persons misery. Which is apart of darkfall and it would still happen. They just might get enough safe practice in that they could actually attempt to fight back. Not trying to turn this great game into a carebear cage match but I truly believe this system would be great for the game overall.

    Unless you full loot duel and win. Then you could live off the armor gained and farm less overall. Depends on how good you were and what you put on the line.

    I never even thought of the Esport angle very interesting.

    You have a good point with this to a degree. Though I think you underestimate our communities greed. Most vets would want full loot duels I am sure. So people would still be dieing and losing thier precious pixels.

    People would never stop farming and pvpers would never stop killing farmers or raiding cities. Specially when the system would only work for small fights. I know I would be open world pvping. Arena would be for practice or training. Or to fight certain people that need a good 1 on 1 ass kicking. Not to mention sieges which will always be a major element of darkfall.

    Griefers would still hunt noobs down, cause they couldn't live off the arena so they would go out farming and doing noobish stuff. Bambi heros would still hunt griefers. Honestly I don't think it would be anywhere near as bad as you are thinking. Still though this should be discussed more.
     
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  7. Ogrinn

    Ogrinn Deadeye
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    I don't think this would be very healthy for the game.

    Give the players more tools so they can use existing features and make their own "arena" system.

    DF needs more sandbox and player interaction not sitting in queues for instanced duels.
     
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  8. Avenging Martyr

    Avenging Martyr Celestial
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    I changed my mind on the instanced part please read my response to PENETRATOR. I'd really hate for the system to be queued but you are probably right on that. It would have to be at some point. Ugh that alone is really bad. Hmmm I'll brainstorm on that abit and come back with a reponse.

    Sand is great in a sandbox don't get me wrong but this would be like a bucket so you can do that one thing you can't do without it. We need a area for new/casual players to practice fighting. I'd love to hear a better idea. I might even jump on the bandwagon.

    As for players making thier own arena let me copy my earlier response to that idea *Cough* *Cough* "I'd love to do a player driven underground fighting arena but seriously in this community? Rules wouldn't be enforced, people would be ganking left and right. System would be abandoned faster than a leper at the oscars."
     
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  9. propain

    propain Black Knight
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    I actually wouldn't mind a system as long as it followed some rules such as.

    To "que" up you need to go to one of a few physical locations and talk with someone to enter yourself.

    A decent gold cost. Something like 2500 gold as an example.

    You lose what you enter with.

    Cooldown to enter after doing an arena.

    This way you don't city sit all day, you get a small gold sink system, you can't just que up all day, and you force people to continue to farm what they lose so that open world pvp is not destroyed, world pvp could even be increased around the arena que up spots. Just my thoughts on an arena system.
     
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  10. Lakisuria_Moonglade

    Lakisuria_Moonglade Varangian Warthane
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    I think it could be fun and something to do for the "Richer" Players. Especially the more duelist oriented ones. Also let's people get a quick practice fight if they want one. I can imagine people only going in robes though just to see if they can get a gearbag out of it.

    *Edit*

    Assuming winner gets the opponent's gearbag anyway.

    Entirely plausible to make it just a practice fight with mock-gear bags too.
     
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  11. propain

    propain Black Knight
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    Idk maybe give each armor piece a item score and require a certain armor score to que up being bare minimum a trash bag like bone/plate.
     
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  12. Janosh

    Janosh Windlord
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    Nah fuck arena system
     
  13. Ogrinn

    Ogrinn Deadeye
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    The player ran tourneys were tame, no one really messed with it. Trusted middle men were key for legit tourneys and duels.If you really wanted a safe duel or tourney they could add some way to lock that cage dome in espenhal so no one could jump in mid fight. Maybe add more of those cage domes to other chaos cities and make them have different sizes/obstacles.
     
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  14. Finnad

    Finnad Air Elemental
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    This is lame, leave it to open world and arranged duels - none of this safe zone shit

    The beauty of arranged fights and tournaments is that anything could happen. I don't want everyone sat in cities queueing for their duel
     
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  15. Naj

    Naj Goblin Shaman
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    Yeah, what he said.
     
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  16. Obeesho

    Obeesho Black Knight
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    bad idea
     
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  17. Avenging Martyr

    Avenging Martyr Celestial
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    I lol'd. Not at you but the statement. I went to several tournaments (mainly to watch the better players fight) and I never saw one that didn't get raided. If it was publicly advertised, it was raided. Private tournaments for clan alliances would be much easier to control/defend.

    Trusted middle men work for those who know them or are willing to pay them. They do not work for casuals, noobs or any type of practice/training. Hell they weren't even a popular option for veterans. It was not that easy to arrange for the fighters and the middle men to be online at the same time and get to the same location. Basically unless you really really hated the opponent and were willing to pay it wasn't worth it.
    You know for veterans you might be right. I hate the que B.S. and I agree with you on your post overall for veterans/hardcore players.

    However for new players or casual players I can't disagree more so lets swing this a different way.

    Lets make it a real carebear cage match. Remove the options to kill and loot entirely. No profit at all. No deaths at all. Still create the system for new players or casuals to have a safe enviroment to fight. Or vets to fuck around with if they feel like.

    Small charge for dueling maybe 250 gold for each participant. Keep everything mentioned before and simply cut out the veterans and the looting and death.

    Perfectly safe training system/gold sink and it won't replace world pvp at all.

    No decent player will waste durability or regs to not make a profit where you cannot kill the enemy. Everyone would still pvp in the world. It would just give those new players a place to train and learn. Casuals a place to fight each other and learn. We need something to help these people and world pvp is not the way.

    For casual/new players we need a method to reduce the risk/reward system of darkfall and give them the opportunity to try stuff out and practice in safety. Learn from thier mistakes and others. At this point I wouldn't even use this system except to train others.
     
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    #17 Avenging Martyr, Feb 24, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2016
  18. Rigon

    Rigon Gravelord
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    Plz no
     
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  19. Obeesho

    Obeesho Black Knight
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    The dueling area was every player city, every hamlet, every chaos city, and many random patches of wilderness.

    Did 1000's of duels against 100's of players.

    Think about this... You run into a player out in the wilderness. Maybe someone you have heard of but never fought. You might get them to agree to a friendly duel right then and there.

    But at the end when one person is standing will they honor the "friendly duel" or will there be a ganking? It's the ability to betray and NOT doing it that makes someone trustworthy. It's not a game mechanic called "reputation". It's actual reputation. Baddass or good guy, your choice. And you will be betrayed and find a true enemy. You will be shown mercy and make friends.

    None of that happens in an arena.
     
  20. PENETRATOR

    PENETRATOR Earth Elemental
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    @Avenging Martyr
    I see your point in trying to get noobs to get more practice and such, but we can't have instanced or safe duels because that removes activity from the world.
     
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