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Agon Stimulus Package

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Geezy, Nov 5, 2019.

  1. The Red King

    The Red King Black Knight
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    Damn Nasa only pays 9K a month? Fuck my wife makes more than you lol
     
  2. Animal

    Animal Eodrin
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    That's not what I make... that's what I'd consider a sufficient amount to go from passion programming to doing it full-time. lol

    It's hard to justify a lower QoL, so setting a minimum threshold makes it easier. I guess. /shrug
     
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  3. Fenrir Frauki

    Fenrir Frauki Undead Dwarf
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    Loled @ "the masses." I guess the delusions will never leave some of these people...

    Geezy good on you to try and help out this game, it's not as dead as people on here and the discord act like but we're definitely in a slump.
     
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  4. Geezy

    Geezy Undead Dwarf
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    If only RMT wasn't against the rules :(

    Thanks fam. Yeah the 'game's dead' crowd is loud on discord, but we're still here :D
     
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  5. Sero

    Sero Menhir Sentinal
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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
     
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  6. Slayven

    Slayven Eodrin
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    U won’t
     
  7. Battle Smurf

    Battle Smurf Oak Lord
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    I would donate if I hadn't been burned so badly on past kickstarters...


    Lost $ and time on....

    1. Perpetuum (basically eve online but with ground based robots/mechs and WASD movement) Launched and Was solid for like a year then shutdown.

    2. Divergence Online (supposed to be like a sci-fi MMOFPS full loot sandbox version of Darkfall but with rust building elements/ terraforming/ mining)

    It also had much bigger risk vs reward than even EvE, they had a special alien race for early backers where you can ONLY make 1 of per account and when it dies its dead forever, the alien was stronger than the regular races and was based off a finite energy source and would die of old age UNLESS you sought out OTHER members of the rare alien race killed them in PvP and absored their energy/ lifeforce highlander style ( NOW THaT's FUCKING COOL!). Unfortunately the developer gave up/ ran off with the $ after 5 years. This one hurt.

    3. Firefall (MMOFPS with PvE elements; invasions) had great combat and potential until one day the developers decided to completely remove PvP , it shutdown not long after due to mismanagement.

    4. Camelot unchained, taking much longer than expected might be decent one day

    5. Crowfall, taking MUCH longer than expected, might be decent one day

    6. Star Citizen, highly promising, but highly mismanaged for at LEAST the first 4 years, lot's of out right LIES by the developers. Currently 7 years 1 month since the kickstarter, they have raised over $300 million dollars and we're still at least 3 years from a minimum viable launch product with 5 solar systems tops out of the 110 the kickstarter promised. STILL a promising game though.


    So as you can see of all the kickstarters I backed/ followed in the last 8 years most failed completely and the rest are going to take between 6 and 10 years to be worth playing from the time I gave them $. And most of them had actual teams and funding behind them.

    The ONLY successful one is probably Elite Dangerous, but last I checked PvP is no longer something the developers care about, infact they seem actively against it. Which makes ZERO sense because if they put a tiny bit of development into PvP they'd capture tons of EvE online players.


    So even if you were the genius wizkid you think you are, the odds say I'd be lighting $ on fire and wasting my time.


    Also anything not launching in the next 2 years might as well not even exist


    Good luck though, I mean that
     
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  8. Animal

    Animal Eodrin
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    I don't trust anything on kickstarter. It's mostly a platform that exists to secure funding for the last mile or to pay for advertising costs(while, coincidentally, promoting your product via the KS platform).

    If a game is put on Kickstarter, then it should be effectively finished(in my opinion) - otherwise it's probably vaporware and the creators are looking to siphon money from the willing.

    As a rough guess for a competent(mathematically inclined) solo developer full-time: 3-4 years to develop an MMO game engine and the tools to support it at a rudimentary level. Not too many bells and whistles when it comes to tooling, but expected things like a proper import/export pipeline for assets, a world builder, metaprograms for generating networking code and asset formats between versions, a working and extensible immediate mode GUI(font rendering, windowing, etc), a well-abstracted and multithreaded renderer, well abstracted audio that supports several APIs(to guarantee that shitty device drivers from vendors that don't care about other developers don't fuck up the user experience - thanks Windows for giving us like 4 different core audio APIs.... not), well tested huffman tables for better network compression on top of whatever original encoding was done, etc, etc.

    It's a lot, but nothing unreasonable if you approach it in a sensible way. If you remove certain elements of programming that REQUIRE you to maintain separate states in your mental model(like retained mode GUIs[qt] or an object oriented design pattern that allocates everything dynamically all of the time, or convoluted locking schemes when going multithreaded), then it takes a lot of burden off you and allows you to focus on things in an isolated manner.

    Ironically, it's usually the art assets/gameplay programming that consumes most of your time. Creating cogent lore and a convincing fantasy world is A LOT fucking harder than writing a rigid body physics simulation. Design is..... hard.
     
  9. FirstNameLastNameRpIsCool

    FirstNameLastNameRpIsCool Goblin Warrior

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    Find it quite fascinating that a professional developer would think it is wise to roll a one man game engine instead of customizing an existing one.
     
  10. Animal

    Animal Eodrin
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    I think you'd be amazed by the productivity increase of removing third party dependencies from most development environments.
     
  11. FirstNameLastNameRpIsCool

    FirstNameLastNameRpIsCool Goblin Warrior

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    I heavily disagree, in my opinion it is the other way around. Most of the times 3rd party libraries will save you time if you do your research and pick a decent one.

    Only time I think it is proper to completely roll your own implementation is when you need more control, if you do not need most the functionality (research), if don't fully trust a library (i.e. npm security issues) or if you are creating some in house shit that you are planing to reuse for other projects.

    If you take your argument to the max (i.e, no libraries vs libraries, no packages vs packages, no frameworks vs frameworks, no engines vs engines) I'd imagine that you'll come to a pretty obvious conclusion.

    But hey, if you can do it go for it. I've seen enough semi talented developers fail at this specific task and I personally would def not be up for it. I'd still try your shit out if it would hit the "shelves" though. Anyways, this doesn't belong here, just my opinion.
     
  12. Animal

    Animal Eodrin
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    Isn't the purpose of creating an MMO engine to have full extensibility and expertise?

    I do embedded/systems stuff for work, but game engine related stuff(which is mostly tooling, really) for a hobby, so this is more of a hobby with an indefinite deadline, rather than a legitimate service/project that needs to strongly consider time/funding.

    I prefer to open up the "black boxes" if I'm given the freedom(Often can't do that at work because timelines are always fucking ridiculous and PMs[the bad ones] often set completely unrealistic goals).

    It all boils down to what you're doing. I write baremetal OS/driver/vhdl stuff at work, so I often don't have anything beyond the hardware as a dependency. Read the data sheet and implement. Rinse and repeat. If I was working in web development, then it's almost a necessity to use the tools provided to accomplish anything of substance. The lowest I could probably go without really wasting a LOT of time would be a basic web server and a cgi component. Any lower and I'd be spending days reading RFCs. A step lower than that and I'd be implementing my own web browser on top of chromium. Good luck to anyone doing that solo. Hell, harfbuzz alone is a feat in and of itself.

    The reason I hate web development is probably a result of dealing with abstraction on top of abstraction. It's a development paradigm and environment that takes the fun out of it for me.
     
    #32 Animal, Nov 8, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019
  13. Featherbeans

    Featherbeans Celestial
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    Agon stimulus Package? wtf.
    So what you are saying is that the devs need stimulus.
    Who would have thought...

    How about this: we payed, you screwed up; we payed and you still screwed up.

    No, there will be no agon stimulus package i'll be willing to buy...

    Unless, @Geezy, you buy one for me and keep it for yourself.
     
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  14. Geezy

    Geezy Undead Dwarf
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    Every game company makes mistakes bro. Just look at the Blizzard debacle.

    If you don't want to support the game, that's up to you. I still think ROA has the potential to be great, and I'll do what I can to help it out :)
     
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  15. Featherbeans

    Featherbeans Celestial
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    Geezy, start selling the pictures of the GM reports Ibis sent ya. You'll make some money. Tell the world your story.
     
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  16. CaptainAmerica

    CaptainAmerica Earth Elemental
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    didn't realize Geezy is now part of the BPG team.

    and you wonder why this game's going down the drain...
     
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  17. Andrew

    Andrew Obsidian Golem
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    Appreciate your support Geezy.
     
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  18. Yomi Scythetalon

    Yomi Scythetalon Cairn Giant
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    The dumb dwarf is doing his part to help the game succeed, and some of you come in here to derail or troll or just be straight toxic. What in the actual fuck is the matter with you all. BW got big and zerged ya a couple times? Give me a break.
     
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  19. Geezy

    Geezy Undead Dwarf
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    I put my two cents in discord.

    Figured you guys cried enough about GM collusion as is, no reason to keep the facade up any longer :D

    Always man. I'm here til you guys turn the lights off.

    Yeah, the irony of them "wondering why this game's going down the drain" while being constantly toxic is certainly something.
     
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  20. CaptainAmerica

    CaptainAmerica Earth Elemental
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    Pretty much stopped giving a fuck when GMs started feeding logs to BW and muting us in discord. BPG is not acting like a company interested in being fair or doing what needs to be done to address mistakes of the past. They're acting like a company dead set on shoving the shit under the rug and muting anyone who isn't kissing their ass.

    It's no surprise you're suckin em off when they're working side by side with you and our guys that are dicked over by game bugs are told to fuck off.
     
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