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Alot more people are needed for this alpha. where is the hype?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Copperfield, Oct 17, 2015.

  1. Fnights

    Fnights Earth Elemental

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    I can live with it but i prefer using bandages and potions (like in UO) for trasfers and self healing wit ha less CD, i think will be better balanced in this way and don't force me to lose tons of time in using a staff during a battle.

    Things can change and improve, since this skill system failed to retain population (they create classes in UW for this reason), then something should be done to accomodate more players and expecially more RPG players 8players that want to play a specific role).

    If you force melee+archery+magic to everyone to compete then you will never have a solid playerbase to play with, people don't like a false freedom, people want to play their desired role, is what mmoRPG are made for

    This is the problem, i have to use all 3, but i wont, people don't want and disliked this aspect of Darkfall, ie because you will ever have a tiny playerbase with a skill system like this that force people to train 60+ spells.

    If people can't compete using only their preferred playstyle then they will not stay to play. I don't want my bar be fullfilled with 60 spells, utilities, healings, ccs, buff, etc.. i want to use only swings and my arrows and i want to be at the same level of hybrids. Specializations are introduced by AV and are imo the best things they did for the sake of the game.
     
  2. scarletpimpernel

    scarletpimpernel New Member
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    Personally I really liked the Destroyer, Indestructible, Mage Killer 'specializations' (not sure what to call them really).

    I was always a bit astounded that AV never expanded this system to create further specializations like Fire Mage, Cleric, Warlock, etc. - seems a simple and elegant solution. You can be 'jack of all trades, master of none' full on hybrid or you can specialize and sacrifice certain things.

    Just one guy's opinion of course.
     
  3. Hugo

    Hugo Gravelord

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    Good to see a Lux signature again! Welcome.
     
  4. Fnights

    Fnights Earth Elemental

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    You dare to speak about specializations and agree, brace youself, you are in the black list now.

    ps: Lux Arcana, i remember we fight some sieges together and some against eachother. :)
     
  5. Elunex

    Elunex Crypt Guard
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    I understand what you are saying but what some of us are saying is that we want gear to be the decider of how you chose to play the game.
    So there would be tools to allow people to play for instance a fire mage due to the transmute staff being good enough to make it work (in dfo this was not the case). I personally don't hate the destroyer specs but I think we should be very wary of adding things like that when we have a gear system that could be used to distinguish play styles.
     
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  6. yewhatever

    yewhatever Stormgraive

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    The problem with specs isnt that destroyer+mage killer combo was bad.
    You would gear up a lot heavier, you would use a bow for ranged dmg. You would try to push into melee, and still had to use transfers/healself/witches brew to stay alive. You had all team heals, blind and the standard wall scaling spells.
    You were in no way completely gimped, but you did lack some utility (cc's, self buffs, wards)

    Lets say instead of picking up this spec at an NPC and being it always, you become destroyer once your encumberance passes...80 magic?
    Im just throwing a number out there, i never used a full infernal/dragon set so im not sure how high up there you got...
    From a destroyer point of view, nothing changes.
    But you stop hybrids from gearing up really heavily, because at some point (TBD) you lock out your own magic.
    In this way your gear decides if you can utilize elemental magic or not, so players get to mix their own sets together.

    What specs is being praised for, is allowing players to pick a role and play only that.
    A melee only spec is something thats going to be asked for. Its going to be completely helpless in getting over a wall...
    Its going to be completely unable to help friendlies out. Its going to be completely helpless against kiting (so, its going to need some form of massive buffs)
    These very narrow specialisation idea's, that rely on a single aspect of combat, will break combat completely.

    In the same line of thought, a pure mage build is going to be broken aswell ofcourse.
    If you wanted to only be a mage, you give up melee+archery, you suddenly need to get (much) stronger magic aswell.
    Its going to melt players, especially in team fights. Not something we want.

    Thats not even getting into the nightmare of eternally trying to balance it all...
     
  7. Fnights

    Fnights Earth Elemental

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    You mean the oneside build in bone + infernal pieces, the best compromise of power, defence and encoumbrance.
    Wow, lots of diversity we have here.

    So not only you want specs removed do destroy completely even the little diversity already in place, but now you will create on the fly without any CD the super battlemage tanker in full dragon. I'm really speakless.

    You continue to not understand, that don't matter how much penalty you have, people will use melee+archery+magic anyway thanks to the buffs and utilities without any limit. Unless encumbrance is drastically changed into a huge factor, your 10% will matter zero.

    This is false and show that you understand nothing about specializations and how they works. You only lock other schools but you can still use archery and melee like an hybrid.
    Specializations mean that you lock some abilities and boost other while the rest is leaved the same.

    The concept you propose is the last nail in the DF coffin.
     
  8. yewhatever

    yewhatever Stormgraive

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    fnights, f you
    im done with talking to you
     
  9. Heldana

    Heldana Windlord
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    Am i now allowed to tell you: i told you so? :p
     
  10. yewhatever

    yewhatever Stormgraive

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    So everybody has to use melee, because that part of combat is forced.
    But magic, well clearly people dont want to use that...So we need to introduce more specialisations to cater to different playstyles.

    How is pure magic not something somebody could want, how can you force others to use both melee and archery...
    But you can almost religiously preach how you dont want magic and therefor the game has to allow a spec that makes you competative in pvp.

    How about i take the reverse from what you want.
    You want melee+archery, no magic.
    I want magic, no melee+archery.

    You think that spec isnt valid, does giving up melee+archery not warrant some buffs in magic?
    If you dont buff my magic, why would i give up my melee and archery?
    You hate magic so consistantly all you can think of is giving up schools. You cant even imagine people hating melee or archery, to be willing to lock those skills in exchange for a buff else where (meaning, magic buffs)
     
  11. Aristos Giannes

    Aristos Giannes Cairn Giant
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    I want to forego all my melee and archery skills so I can have 500% magic damage and 1 shot Fnights with a magma storm right when my screen loads his character model.
     
  12. Fnights

    Fnights Earth Elemental

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    But i never said that, infact specs i suggested cover everything, not only melee and archery but magic too.

    Specializations force nothing, you can stay hybrid if you want, countrary is your beloved jack of all trades that force everyone to learn everything to compete.

    Never forced my vision into everyone, i decide to play in this way because i like play in this way, because i like RPG non FPS and play a specific role.

    Fine, specializations allow every combinations possible, i'm sure that if you want a boost only in magic at the expense of melee or archery, is perfectly possible.

    If you want a boost in a magnitude specific school why not? You can have it, with spec every playstyle is possible, even the fire mage, or the pure water mage, or the pure arcanist, necromancer, etc...

    Values need to be tweaked and balanced, destro was like 40% if i'm not mistaken so the theresold can vary around thsi value.
     
  13. Synna

    Synna Black Knight
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    We know he won't stop spamming, just quit giving him anything to continue his spam on please.
     
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  14. Aristos Giannes

    Aristos Giannes Cairn Giant
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    What's the point of having hybrids at this point? Or a mixture of anything at all? I say we just have preset loadouts that you pick at character selection. Fire mage, water mage, archer, and so on. No more filthy fraggers using everything!
     
  15. Fnights

    Fnights Earth Elemental

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    I ask yewhatever to provide me an example of the system he like but he ignore to reply that part. I'm open to listen to other ideas with concrete examples that don't force you to learn everything to compete and let the players to play a specific role if they desire to do so.

    This sound like a forced class system to me with predefinite and fixed archetypes, the problem is that you guys see things only black or white.
     
  16. Synna

    Synna Black Knight
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    Take myself as an example, just ignore him.
     
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  17. Aristos Giannes

    Aristos Giannes Cairn Giant
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    I was -clearly- being sarcastic, the problem is you're too fucking retarded to realize it.
     
  18. Fnights

    Fnights Earth Elemental

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    So bitter. :)
     
  19. onslaught

    onslaught Black Knight
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    Thank god Fnights put those links in his signature so we can all see his amazing suggestions! *blows fucking brains out*
     
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  20. yewhatever

    yewhatever Stormgraive

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    Ok, i hate melee. I hate archery.
    So i give those up, i get 40% magnitude in my magic.
    Deal?

    Inb4 OMG magic opop dont deserve same buff as destroyer spec because you no aim and use all spells like a wizard.

    Ok, i hate melee, i hate archery.
    I hate my team members too, so i give up spell chanting aswell.
    I get a 40% boost in fire magic and water magic.
    Deal?

    inb4, but you still use too many magic schools. And you shouldnt be able to buff opposing magic schools.

    Ok, i hate melee, i hate archery.
    I hate my team members too, so i give up spell chanting aswell.
    I give up water magic too, because its all wet and splashy. Ugh, water.
    I get a 40% boost in fire magic and air magic.
    Deal?

    The problem you arent seeing here yet, is that with almost any magnitude increase im going to out DPS what people can heal up.
    Not a little, like it was before. But by a lot.
    So even if you heal, you will still die. And you will do so long before my mana bar is close to empty.
    The protections on which heavy geared players relied to make fights drag out, to make their continued use of transfers/selfheals/potions/wards/buffs and cross heals turn the tide of a fight into their favor because the other person(s) had to start worrying about sustaining their own stat pools to continue fighting on. That takes time, time you wont have if im hitting you for 50+ damage every spell (35-40 damage before, 40% buff would be 49-56).

    But you've never thought of combat like that, you've never experienced living long enough against a mage to have him run out of mana.
    You cant even comprehend the impact of HAVING to do even a single health>mana in a fight, as even the short cast time and small ammount of health can create openings for your opponent to take advantage of.
    Just the thought of your enemy being out of mana gave you hope, made you try that little bit harder to hold on for just a few more seconds.

    The combat was very complicated, with loads of small things adding up everywhere to contribute to meaningfull choices and differences in almost any fight or situation.
    And suggesting specialisations that give up large parts of combat just because you dont like it, means that you dont have choices. You cant approach situations differently because your character simply has nothing to deal with it.

    Lets say you have your dream come true.
    Melee+archery, 40% damage buff, 30% extra resistances, 30 sec cd on potions.
    You see me, out in the world.
    I launch ontop of a rock and crouch, you can no longer see me.

    Ye...that sucks doesnt it, not having magic...
    "but i dont mean all magic, i just want to not use magic in combat. Im ok with using a spell to go up rocks/walls/buildings and stuff".
    What you mean is, you couldnt use weapon switches properly, so in combat situations you had a 2h weapon out when nobody was close. And you had your staff out when people were hitting you in melee.

    Thats fair, it happens to almost everybody. Maybe not as often, but everybody gets caught in melee with a staff out.
    Everybody has swapped to melee, thinking that it was time to swing, but it wasnt.

    But to want to create a playstyle that no longer has to, just because you are bad at something, is giving up on improving yourself as a player. The game has to provide you with buffs, just so your partial fighting style can compare (not compete) with players who practice all (or most) parts of combat.

    The suggestion to make gear decide how you play your character and what skills are available to you is much much better.
    Want to use all magic schools, dont have any encumberance.
    Every 5-10 encumberance you do have, you lose a magic school. (necro/arcane first, then fire/air/water/earth).
    At like 50~ encumberance you will have given up all elemental magic, and you become a destroyer instead.
    And you cant swap with no cd here, equiping armor pieces takes time.
    Sure people might buff up before a fight, then put on their armor....
    But either make the game recognize that its self buffs, and remove them as encumberance increases.
    Or have all self buffs disappear when you equip a gear piece.
    Simple solution (though maybe hard to program).

    This is the last time im replying to you, im finding the ignore button after