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An In-Depth Arena System proposal - A way to keep people interested long term

Discussion in 'Game Design Discussion' started by propain, Oct 30, 2017.

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Would you like for BPG to focus on an arena system? (Read below before answering)

  1. Yes, I think would benefit the game.

    17 vote(s)
    68.0%
  2. No, I think this would be detrimental to the game.

    6 vote(s)
    24.0%
  3. Don't care either way.

    2 vote(s)
    8.0%
  1. propain

    propain Black Knight
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    Giant wall of text so be warned.

    First and foremost, an arena system will NOT save the game or bring in thousands. The intention of an arena system is to build a solid groundwork for the future of the game and to keep the existing populace entertained and slowly bring+keep new blood interested. I'll go into more detail below.

    Twitch, Streaming, Advertising, and Fun -
    • It's 2017 and Darkfall has to be the LEAST stream friendly game there is. This just can't happen. Streaming is one of, if not the best cost effective ways to get people to advertise the game for you. For Darkfall to be streamer friendly it needs to have somewhere that the streamers can showcase the game without getting griefed into oblivion 24/7. Streamers need to have a break from the open-world aspect of the game to just chill, talk with people, and show the best sides of Darkfall, The Combat.

    • Nobody wants to watch a dude sit at his bank, duel clan mates, or run across the terrain for hours on end only to see their favorite streamer get 3v1'd or ganked half stats at a monster spawn. It frustrates both parties. There needs to be a way to get into the fun parts of the game when you want to at a moments notice. People have jobs and can't sit around for 60 seconds of enjoyment at the cost of 45 minutes of time.

    • Opens up a more formal way to host tournaments/events if BPG decides to do so.

    • New meta. Having different team sizes, and different terrain arenas would all shape up a new meta and be interesting to watch unfold.

    Fee, Seasons, Ladder, Placement, and Incentive:

    • For such a system to take place there needs to be a huge incentive, right? No, the incentive for an arena should be for a quick fight for no reward. There needs to be a small loss when one decides they should queue up.

    • The fee should be something small and affordable but not a detriment to people wanting to join. Something small 500 Gold - 1,500 Gold to enter the arena and a small durability loss percentage(2%). It's not a whole lot but take it like this. You join up for 15 arenas. Thats 15k gold and 30% of your gear that you used is trashed. A very good sink long term that isn't a overwhelming loss to the user.

    • These two I believe would be the best way to keep people playing both arena as it is a small fee, and force them to go out in the world if they wish to keep spamming arenas. Who know's it might even increase world PvP if everyone is spamming arena's slowly sinking gold/gear and are forced to be out in the world.

    • The ONE thing this can't do is be full loot. The cost is too much for the average Joe, and it becomes a way to live off of for the top tier teams, effectively killing world pvp and hindering arena participates in the process/

    • There is already a sort of ladder system going on in the game right now as I can see. Having an official 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, 5v5 leader-board is something many players find themselves simply playing for and having an easy way to join in the fun is always good. The current leaderboard is skewed by dueling/afk ganking anyways.

    • Every month or two the leader-board should reset and the winners of each category be recognized/rewarded. Nothing big, maybe a Justice-bringer with something like "2017 Q2 1v1 1st Place Champion". Or maybe a mention somewhere in a log/book in game or even just giving the top 3 a small reward for accomplishing the feat. Like I said the quick fights should be the reward, but every ladder needs something for the best of the best to seek out.
    Stability-

    • Look at every top game with PvP. They have a ladder/ELO system. This isn't the holy grail that will save Darkfall but it does offer a stable solution. It's been used for years and even sub par games with nothing to look forward to have people coming back every now and then because people enjoy arena style PvP.

    • Darkfall needs its veteran force at this moment to offer a foundation to build a future. When the game is losing veterans you can't hope to retain new blood. This will keep a majority of the veteran force entertained for the time being and will likely keep new blood interested as well.
    Won't open world PvP suffer?

    • I won't lie, It will lose a bit of its flair more than likely, however the current situation is nothing to write home about, and if measures are taken (small fee, no full loot, can't afk queue up inside cities) I believe it can be beneficial to both open world, and arena oriented players. Let me give an example from a different game I play below.

    • I play WoW private servers occasionally and over there they have a talent system that can be reset costing the player a hefty 50 gold fee. People would rarely use this and instead would PvP less because they didn't have the money to switch between PvP and PvE talents all day. Then came a few servers that decided to go to a 5 gold fee instead. People began to switch back and forth carelessly prompting more PvP without sacrificing their PvE desires, but when you look at things you will notice many people spent more gold overtime than they would have if it was still 50 gold, and they got their fun but were none the wiser. It exceeded the gold sink, and the players got enjoyment more frequently.

    • The situation is different for Darkfall but its still similar imo. Make people slowly drain their banks via the arena by disguising it low key, and give them instant fun. They will naturally seek resources in the open world to keep up their fun. The population will likely follow the same path making for natural PvP to occur.

    When I look at the forums/road map here for the last 4 months all I see is indecisiveness. The team needs something to keep players quiet and having fun for a semi-long period of time, and I believe this feature to be the only solution that will buy them enough time so they can get their heads screwed on straight. They need something to hold the people to this game and keep players interested long term and arena's have proven time and time again to do so. The only real CON I can see is that it will likely lower world PvP, but there isn't much world PvP to begin with.

    I'm sorry but them tweaking champions, bringing in named mobs, titles, adding markets or revamps of the siege system just won't bring in the thousands they need and it won't keep the existing players attached. They need a foundation to build on first and foremost and then they should do these great ideas, because they are good for the game, but they just don't have the priority or urgency that is needed right now.

    Anyways im out, I will be Checkin' back in a few more months ofc to see where the game is at but please discuss below what you think. Anything I might of missed, what you find wrong with something like this or if you think it would benefit.
     
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    #1 propain, Oct 30, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2019
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  2. TyteDaddyTite

    TyteDaddyTite Obsidian Golem
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    I do not think it even needs a gold cost. The arena should be free and gear durability should suffer the normal wear and tear. MMR ladder, is enough incentive for most people to have fun doing it.
     
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  3. Nerfsy

    Nerfsy Goblin Warlord

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    Idk which I like more, streamers being able to stream, or having groups of people in good gearbags in area's around the map to zerg down :p

    Other than that it's perfectly summarized, Good read with great idea's! hope BPG notices this proposal.
     
    #3 Nerfsy, Oct 30, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2017
  4. Not_Primetime

    Not_Primetime Infernal
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    I don't see how it would benefit the game. Either way people are going to still find out that the core of the game is toxic. Can't sugar coat it or hide it. It is what it is. It just sounds like an excuse to get what you want lol.

    The real problem is AV allows a minority of players ruin the gaming experience. If you look at the PvP videos that have been posted since late summer the majority are by those same cockroach clans that trade ganked, bank jack and hacked in UW. They are griefing, trade ganking and bank jacking here as well. Until BPG controls the player experience and stops allowing a minority of players to decimate the population it will always be dominated by the cockroaches. Those same people will just get into an arena instance and kill their team mates while their clan members and friends are on the other team and in comms the whole time.

    Besides BPG already said no. The game engine was built from the ground up. This is not built on Unity or another out of the box engine. It would cost a lot of money just to save the steamers. As you said won't really add much value to the game.

    http://www.sickenger.com/articles/the_making_of_darkfall/
     
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  5. Nerfsy

    Nerfsy Goblin Warlord

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    From your link..
    And...
    Arenas will help keep PvPers subscribed to this game - Motivation is what helps keep players subscribed to the game.

    We know that most MMORPG designs expect people to stay addicted to the game and keep their subscription through gear progression models. While it is true that PVEers are motivated to play the game to constantly obtain better gears that are released, PVPers' brains work differently.

    PvEers are motivated by gear progression. PvP'ers are motivated by competition. You can't expect to keep many of the pvp playerbase subscribed to to this game without providing adequate motivation in the form of competition. Without a challenge to prevent them from being bored, most pvpers will simply move on to the next MMO that comes out that has decent PvP.

    Arenas will help create a competitive scene and communities such as arenajunkies in WoW. Many of the players there and the top world class WoW players (reckful, hydra, etc) played ARENAS since season 1 of TBC, which is 7+ years. I can't even fathom how any of these players would have stayed with WoW that long, if Blizzard had not added arenas.

    An Arena gives the bored competitive-natured pvpers("cockroaches") a place to go and for noobs to improve before risking hard earned gear out in the real world of Agon.
     
  6. The Red King

    The Red King Obsidian Golem
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    Yes Please
     
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  7. Bonii

    Bonii Winterbound
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    This guy had it figured all along.
     
  8. Sero

    Sero Menhir Sentinal
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    IT'S ONLY BEEN BROUGHT UP 1000 TIMES. WHATS 1 MORE AMIRIGHT BOIZ?
     
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  9. Yomi Scythetalon

    Yomi Scythetalon Oak Lord
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  10. Pink Taco

    Pink Taco Black Knight
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    >.>
     
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  11. Korag

    Korag Evil Eye
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    Not this shit again

    Please list how many successful open world pvp mmo's currently active and working that contain an arena.
    Full loot is optional.