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BPG Don't Touch Mounted Combat

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Zorak, May 16, 2016.

  1. Zorak

    Zorak Dire Zombie
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    There's a lot of misinformation about mounted combat from players nowadays. A lot of people say things that are wrong or uninformed. People assume mounted combat isn't viable because it isn't used by a lot of people. This is not true, people just don't know how or when to use mounts anymore.

    I've heard ideas for changes to mounted combat and they all would make it worse and unusable. The only change I think that would help mounted combat as well as improve the game is removing knockback on light battlespikes.

    Please post any suggestions or questions you have about mounted combat here so I can inform you.
     
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  2. Juicy

    Juicy Black Knight
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    i say we remove it all together ;)
     
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  3. RoD

    RoD Undead Dwarf
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    mount combat need a minibuff
     
  4. Zorak

    Zorak Dire Zombie
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    In what way? Why?
     
  5. RoD

    RoD Undead Dwarf
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    maybe 165~175% more dmg instead 150%
    cause almost nobody use mounts as a tool to pvp
     
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  6. Nuyur

    Nuyur Wildtribe Mage

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    I think there's a few things that could be improved to make mounted combat less dependant on circumstances and more of a choice.
    Hopefully without making it too strong in the cases its usefull now...

    Something like a dmg bump, like mentioned above.
    Something like adding resistances to bhorns, so it doesnt get chunked by everything it gets hit by.
    Something like giving people who are mounted 10% dmg reduction, which is transferred over to dmg the mount takes instead.
     
  7. Zorak

    Zorak Dire Zombie
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    The damage cap would have to be raised, because I already hit dmg cap as non-destro with a keened r60. But I think mounts would be too powerful if damage cap was raised, since it would just be a few swings to kill someone and no one likes dying like that.
    --- Post updated ---
    I answered the damage bump in the post above.

    Being able to put armor on your mount could be cool. I don't know how hard/possible this is to do for BPG.

    The player on the mount has a shield he can use. This one I'm not sure about, but I feel like someone in really heavy armor on a mount with damage reduction would just soak up too much damage and everyone would have random, uncoordinated mount heroes in large group fights. It could be something to test, though.
     
  8. RoD

    RoD Undead Dwarf
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    I dont think you do 90dmg with a r60 keened.
    Anyway you could use a transmute weapon so you have 2 caps to overtake.
     
  9. Zorak

    Zorak Dire Zombie
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    Damage cap for melee is 52 in the front and 72.8 in the back unless you're destroyer against a staff, then it's 65 in the front and 90 in the back. Transmutes hit for half of the damage of physical, so the cap would be 97.5 to the front as a destroyer and 135 to the back. 78 to the front as a non-destroyer hit with a damage cap transmute.

    I do hit 72.8 with a r60 keened. Easily 90 as destroyer against a staff.

    With destroyer you're going to hit over 100 with a good transmute for destroyer hits in the back and over 70 to the front. Usually it's around 80+30 with a .60+ transmute in the back. That's only ~4 hits to kill someone.

    I don't think the reason people don't do mounted combat is because it doesn't hit hard enough. I think people just believe that because that's how it was when it was nerfed when everyone had 20 mastery in a 1-handed skill instead of 100.
     
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  10. Kol Taggar

    Kol Taggar Celestial
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    Here's me playing devils advocate:

    Buff mount health, they die too fast
     
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  11. Nuyur

    Nuyur Wildtribe Mage

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    Didnt know damage was that high, though a keened r60 isnt that cheap?
    Still though, hitting for "only" 50 damage as a front hit (non-destroyer) isnt that huge of a deal.
    I know its 1/9th of your total hp...But magic hits often get up to 35-40.
    As does normal melee.

    If memory serves, you can still dance around a mount and avoid getting hit (almost) completely.
    Thats dependant on playerskill, reaction time, surroundings, other people...
    But its not nearly as consistant as nuking, shooting arrows or even charging melee.

    The reduction wouldnt scale though.
    If a naked person on a mount takes 60 damage from a back hit, it would hit him for 54 and the mount for 6.
    If a guy in dull dragon takes 20 damage from a back hit, it would only decrease the damage to him by 2.

    The mount is still likely to die way before him, because its SO much easier to hit the mount.
    But as a rider, your biggest downfall is people kiting you around and outstatting you while occasionally getting a hit off to slowly kill you. As your means to heal up are basicly potions only (rage, teamheals exist ofcourse).

    The idea was to allow riders to stay mounted a little longer. In the hopes that battlehorns with increased resistances (or health) dont just drop dead when charging into a fight.

    Looking at how mounts are dealt with now. Its either a quick burst to drop the mount...
    Or its everybody spreading out and avoiding getting hit while the person is sniped off.
    And how you deal with it comes down to teamwork and what the enemy group is doing.
    You cant spread out if the rest is following close behind.
    You cant focus it down if you are already fully engaged.

    I agree that some people seem to have a weird opinion as to how promote mounted combat.
    But to say there's nothing wrong with it is going too far aswell.
    It could use some buffs, but it needs to not magnify the strenghts or it could go overboard.
     
  12. murk

    murk Crypt Guard
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    Zorak has a valuable opinion as he actively used this playstyle, I would greatly consider what he has to say on this topic.
     
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  13. Zorak

    Zorak Dire Zombie
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    I don't think you should be able to use a cheap weapon and hit for the max amount of damage. It's only 2 rare ingots and a q3.66 enchant.
    Hitting for 50 damage with low to zero chance of taking damage yourself is always a positive in my book.

    Dancing with a mount is part of the skill of a player to combat it, which is possible, but easy to fuck up and get juggled to death. There are times where I've juggled people from full to dead when they've made mistakes with their movement.

    A tiny reduction sounds reasonable to me. The main thing is just making sure that a Bhorn in a 1v1 doesn't just soak the stats of a player who is trying to combat it beyond reason.

    I think charging from far away head into a group of players ready for your attack on a mount should be punished by a quick focus and drop of your mount. It doesn't seem reasonable for mounted combat to be viable in every situation in the game.

    I think once the server comes up I will make some mounted combat videos in order to show the usefulness of mounted combat and hopefully inspire some people to try it out. With steedgrass as abundant as it is, there's no reason to not practice in duels against your clan mates.
     
  14. kilrain

    kilrain Shadow Knight
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    Add a charge ability to Battlhorns for use against city walls and others. Give it a smallish cooldown and cause less, maybe equal, damage than a small battlespike.
     
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  15. Xipos<3

    Xipos<3 Stormgraive
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    New spec: Cavalrist - Blocks elemental magic and Destroyer - Raises bonus damage from 150% to 200%, increases mount health by 200%

    Or something like that. Maybe add special mounted skills for Cavalrists instead of flat bonuses like destroyer has.
     
  16. Zorak

    Zorak Dire Zombie
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    No point with current damage caps. You would have to raise the damage cap and I guarantee kids will be crying after getting 3 shot by some bluetail-riding chuckle-fuck.

    New mounted abilities could be cool depending on what they do.
     
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  17. crackwizard

    crackwizard Goblin Scout

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    allow casting of heal mount while riding mount
     
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  18. Xipos<3

    Xipos<3 Stormgraive
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    Cavalrist (Passive): Increases protections of the mount.

    Dash: The mount dashes forward to a location following a path through the air, causing AoE damage on impact

    Charge: A small movement speed steroid for X secs (3-5 secs, in that region). During the active period, the player gains the knockback effect around his and his mounts hitbox similar to that of a sea tower spike.

    Bite: The mount bites, affecting targets in a cone infront of it. For each enemy hit, it heals for X%.
     
  19. Master Gangtadave

    Master Gangtadave New Member

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    Used mounted combat from when the servers came up all the way to the end of the game. While initially my primary playstyle it became very niche because most pro players could easily dodge hits + bluetails had no hp.
     
  20. savage

    savage Goblin Warrior
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    The bend right/left bind should be removed and be done automaticly by aiming.
     
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