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@BPG - Just because you listen to our feedback AFTER a major change doesn't make it okay to change

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by Nat, Dec 21, 2016.

  1. Nat

    Nat Shadow Knight
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    It doesn't make it okay to change in the first place because it's most likely going to be irreversible. You may tweak it and touch it up like you did with scrolls but ultimately it's going to stay and maybe it's something we, the PvPers and the players, don't actually want. I'm personally not totally against the ideas but regarding the staff change I'd have liked to have seen your reasoning and thought process and have an open discussion about possible ramifications and benefits. You're EX DARKFALL PLAYERS, I thought you would know better to include us more.

    You guys are dismissing all feedback about this issue because you're going to listen to us from THIS POINT ON but what about the last few weeks when you was developing and designing these ideas, where was we?

    I'll tell you. They don't want to expose ideas to DND in case they do it too and do it better.

    Remember BPG, we're here because we trust you, do NOT abuse that trust or we can easily leave to the competitor. AV never had one, you guys do.
     
  2. Wes Furtive

    Wes Furtive Obsidian Golem
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    Haven't seen a competitor in over 10 years myself :/ Give em time, they'll get the numbers right
     
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  3. NonFactor

    NonFactor Forest Golem
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  4. MWTaylor

    MWTaylor Community Manager
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    We have gone through iterations on many of our changes, and it is all based around the feedback we get from you testing the changes themselves. This has been working very well for us, which is why we have been able to patch over 20 times in 4 months and why some of our initial systems (like the scroll system) is able to shape up into what it has now turned into.

    We cannot present every change we plan to make to the community and ask for feedback as we would never get anything done. It is much more helpful for us to be able to tweak our changes around actual player feedback in-game rather than theory-crafting discussions.
     
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  5. Crumly

    Crumly Earth Elemental
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    cry thread
     
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  6. Lord Zanuul

    Lord Zanuul Spellgazer
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    Thank God I was getting worried
     
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  7. Nat

    Nat Shadow Knight
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    That's just a long way of saying 'No, we won't communicate our ideas ahead of time'. Well at least I know now. 40 ping on DND looks more appealing every day.
     
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  8. Aristos Giannes

    Aristos Giannes Cairn Giant
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    You guys have been doing incredible work and seriously I am super grateful for giving us Darkfall back. But that's not a very good excuse for not being able to give us more details ahead of time. That's just some hardcore apologizing and damage control imo. You absolutely CAN present every change you plan to make. DnD is doing it with the same game.
     
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  9. Catorino

    Catorino Crypt Guard
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    It's pretty well known there are no gold sinks for characters that have finished the grind, fuck BPG for adding it right?
     
  10. Super Star

    Super Star Oak Lord
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    They should maybe discuss things a bit with people but in the end, at the rate they are doing things, it probably wouldnt even matter. I also HIGHLY doubt there is any fear whatsoever playing a role in regards to what DND is doing and if they did the same changes. Have you seen the quality and rate at which DND is putting out changes, they are lacking in both departments. Even the changes that BPG has done and DND has directly copied and renamed are just inferior versions in every way. DND is genuinely not a factor in their decisions making.

    Did we all know that professions were getting a revamp? yes, we've known it forever. Did we know to what length, no. If you actually try the staves new and old, you will notice a few things that are prevalent and cant be argued. The staves do add diversity now; if someone enjoys for some reason only using necro spells, they will no longer be punished at all for doing so. So what are the negatives. The obvious ones are the dura of the staves compared to their cost are off, and dest has already commented on that in another thread. The only other thing u will notice is that cobra being an r80 (higher rank than the new staves) are actually worse in both the primary element, as well as the off element. That is AFTER enchanting a cobra so its base meets that of a new staff, without even enchanting the old staff. The other obvious ones which have already be mentioned is the fact that its a staff patch (you would think mostly a buff for mages), but actually help destros quite a bit with the healing ones(even thought its very minuscule, everything adds up). The changes themselves arent bad or evil, just some things like always in every patch need to be ironed out. You also have to remember that they are also going to be redoing armor (i think adding in a couple more inbetween tiers) to smooh things out. But the dmg numbers added from the new staves arent that bad, its pretty even compared to what the melee weapon refactors did. Its just the cobra is not worth using, at all.

    A lot of people are just theorycrafting the numbers before actually trying it. Some are saying the new staves are bad and cobra is still the best. Some are saying new staves are best and cobra sucks. Both without actually making the staves and shooting them. Try that for a couple days, and then give true complaints. Can give you a perfect example, Ford made a post in another thread saying that cobra was the best still and the new staves sucked. Couple hours later after actually physically using the staves, he reversed his opinion to cobras are bad, new staves are good.
     
    #10 Super Star, Dec 21, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2016
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  11. Nat

    Nat Shadow Knight
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    Like I said, I'm not actually against the idea, I'm willing to try it. But I just wish we could have been apart of the design process even in a small way, rather than just providing feedback to an early stage of a big change or concept.
     
  12. MWTaylor

    MWTaylor Community Manager
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    We communicated ahead of time that we were implementing single alignment and blue blocking (we even have threads in the Design Discussion on it) and that we were overhauling all of our crafting professions.

    Our development process may not be what you deem best, but it is what works best for us as a team and why we are able to patch as quickly and efficiently as we have been. Now that the Staffcrafting changes are live, why not go test them and provide your feedback? As with everything we do, changes that need to made will be made and that kind of feedback is very valuable to us.
     
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  13. Aristos Giannes

    Aristos Giannes Cairn Giant
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    Again, this is where everyone complaining is getting hung up. 'Overhauling' is an incredibly vague term and we would like at least some details of what you're working on ahead of time. I don't think that's too much to ask for. This is a different scenario from creating a game from the ground up. Obviously the creator should have complete artistic freedom and then customers can then choose whether or not it's the right game for them. But we've been playing this game for years. We all came from the same community. Our input matters.
     
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  14. Neilk

    Neilk Web Development & System Admin
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    Yes it matters, so now provide your feedback in a constructive manner after testing and we can work from this initial implementation that we have provided.
     
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  15. Aristos Giannes

    Aristos Giannes Cairn Giant
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    I am of course giving constructive feedback outside of this discussion. You're welcome to look through my post history, I am currently talking about both the staff changes and the alignment changes. My feedback on THIS issue is that I believe the nature of your communication should change in the future.
     
  16. Neilk

    Neilk Web Development & System Admin
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    There is a two huge threads about the alignment in design discussions. The staff change is not huge in terms of development time so it's much faster to get our first iteration out and move from there based on feedback.
     
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  17. Mork Deeork

    Mork Deeork Goblin Warlord
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    You guys are so insane. Do you really think that because you have played the game for years, and that you have maxxed characters.. that you are ENTITLED to every damn decision BPG makes?

    Let's all be thankful that the staff is still around and working to make this a better game. Support, but don't f#cking cry every time they make a change. Changes are good.
     
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  18. Aristos Giannes

    Aristos Giannes Cairn Giant
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    Who are the BPG guys? They are guys that have played the game for years and have maxed characters. They are us.

    No we're not -entitled- to their decisions, we didn't throw in tons of cash to buy the game back from AV (although a lot of us did buy it), but it would be a sign of good will and respect to let us in on the design process before changes are made.
     
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  19. Ford Prefect

    Ford Prefect Frostjarl
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    I think they are doing fine, just too many fucking entitled cry babies. If something really doesn't work they will see it and change it. Why does every entitled asshole on these forums feel they need to make another thread just because something changed that doesn't make their playstyle more viable?
     
  20. Young guns

    Young guns Guest

    There's so many ideas on what to do and which direction to go with virtually everything. Damned if you do and damned if you don't, I'm surprised BPG even responds to us with the way some of us explode every patch...

    I try to be positive even though I haven't agreed with everything they've done on the first patch because typically they've adapted to our feedback. These changes are massive to balance and won't see the total effect for a while so let's use the beta to test it out and a week or two from now after it's sunk in give a big old feedback thread about shit that broke and shit that ain't.

    Wtb full armour sets and a few more new robes when they do armours!! I'm happy to see real changes coming to how this game is played over the last few months. One thing we can agree on is BPG is changing this game it's becoming more and more RoA and not the same old DF! Can't wait when they have more than just a handful of volunteer devs... Just imagine what they can do with 6 full time devs when they have what, 6-8 volunteer programmers working an average of 15-20hrs a week if lucky? After launch when they get some decent income I think we'll start seeing a lot more punch in their patches.
     
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