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change or remove buff other

Discussion in 'Game Design Discussion' started by Smile, Apr 19, 2020.

  1. Smile

    Smile Skeleton Archer

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    Remove buff other or make the time it works super short making it situational, and not something spammed mindlessly.
    Or even better, make it cost a lot of mana (close to rage). Anything to make it strategic and not a spam fest.

    @developers
    Buff other immediately throws all the balancing efforts out of the window. All risk vs reward balancing too. One can easily counter and overwhelm someone in gear worth fortune with few spells that cost a penny.

    There is no risk vs reward factor implemented when it comes to buff other. No skill in it. You just spam it.
     
    #1 Smile, Apr 19, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2020
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  2. Myater

    Myater Cairn Giant
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    Lol
     
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  3. Blaze

    Blaze Black Knight

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    Do a whole buff rotation, tell me how much mana it takes, also you think 30(max level 5) seconds is long?
     
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  4. Smile

    Smile Skeleton Archer

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    Yes, when it comes to fighting in darkfall 30 seconds is VERY long. Especially when one is buffed and swings much faster. But there is no 30 seconds limit really. There is no cooldown that would prevent you from buffing others again.

    Also - "whole buff rotation"? Don't you hear yourself? You just proved my point that it's not situational, you just go with a "whole buff rotation". Exactly my point.

    People run around and spam buff other in group fights, they think it makes them good team players. Well, it doesn't, it only shows that there is a "My Teammate Wins" button in the game. Everyone is doing it because it has to be done when opponent does it, there is no way around it, no other counter to it.
     
    #4 Smile, Apr 19, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2020
  5. Blaze

    Blaze Black Knight

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    What do u mean tho xD instead of throwing buffs they are losing overall dmg since they are dedicating time to buffing instead of throwing heals or dmg to enemies how is that not a downside? Also buffs take a lot of mana compared to other spells xD
     
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  6. Smile

    Smile Skeleton Archer

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    Buffing others prevents you from dealing damage and healing? Interesting. From my experience it takes a second to buff other, and that leaves 29 seconds to do the damage and heal while your teammate is now a superhero.
     
  7. Blaze

    Blaze Black Knight

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    so u more so dont like it when an enemy has a haste and you teammate or yourself doesn't have a meele haste?
     
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  8. Smile

    Smile Skeleton Archer

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    No, it is just one of examples. To counter very expensive gear with just a spell that costs a penny and rises your protections to same level or beyond is equally ridiculous.

    But it is really hard to talk about buff other in terms of single buff and its effects. As you said yourself - most of the time it is a "whole buff rotation" we are dealing with in darkfall. This whole buff other rotation costs nothing, takes close to no time to cast and is spammable.

    Also don't try to turn this discussion into what suits me or don't. This is stupid approach as I can be buffed just like everyone else. Think in terms of game mechanics and darkfall potential to become better. Think about 2vs1 encounters. Think about risk vs reward balance. Or rather about complete lack of it when it comes to buff other. About gear cost vs buff other cost. Try to battle these points instead of trying to look cool with smiley faces or "lols".
     
    #8 Smile, Apr 19, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2020
  9. SuB ZeRo

    SuB ZeRo Frostjarl
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    Lol :)
     
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  10. Blaze

    Blaze Black Knight

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    I'm just curious how much do u think a whole rotation cost in mana, cause :D it's a lot of mana
     
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  11. Smile

    Smile Skeleton Archer

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    What do you mean by full rotation? Let's assume that most common "rotation" is 2x haste + iron skin. These spells cost close to nothing compared to how much they change in a fight, how much they change in a balance between two players. And how many core concepts of darkfall they immediately throw out of the window.

    I didn't remember exact numbers so I opened latest Rhy Gaul's video. It starts with him applying these 3 buff others. They cost him around 20 mana. Even if it were twice that that would still be ridiculously imbalanced mechanic. As even one of these buffs changes everything when it comes to balance.
     
    #11 Smile, Apr 19, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2020
  12. Blaze

    Blaze Black Knight

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    Ironskin almost does nothing in a fight, all mages have +3 already from their buff and most heavies already have 3-4 prot so he just wasting a spell on them, again seems like haste is the issue?
     
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  13. Kantor

    Kantor Black Knight
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    Buff others use to be 2mins lol they changed it already.
     
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  14. Smile

    Smile Skeleton Archer

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    No, again, listen what you are saying. "Heavies already have 3-4 prot". Well. How much time and/or gold do these protections cost a heavy? Buff other gives you same with cost of 7 mana.

    Small scale is still a thing in Darkfall. Actually many enjoy it the most. Now if heavy is alone, with a gear on him that he invested time and/or gold to get, is it fair, from game mechanic perspective, to give his opponent same or better protections with cost of 7 mana, just because this heavy encountered two people? His fight should be hard because he encountered more than one player, not because there is a spammable spell with no cost in the game that turns people he outgears in his equals or superheroes (if more than one buff other is applied - which is usually the case).

    Even in bigger fights - what is the point of expensive gear set if you can get the same with buff other that costs nothing? Well, you won't be buffed all the time you might say, and that brings my next point.

    This mechanic gives additional advantage to blobs. That have so many more in a fight that some players might actually do nothing more but buff other and heal.

    It looks to me that mechanic that was intended as team play rewarding has actually turned into mechanic that removes risk vs reward factor and discourages solo play. Or, you might also say - promotes zerging.
     
    #14 Smile, Apr 19, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2020
  15. Blaze

    Blaze Black Knight

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    so should they get rid of heal others as well? Also like i said, ironskin or w/e is +4 tops mages already have +3 from self buffs, so legit the spell almost affects nothing. Also like someone mentioned buff others used to be 2min +, and was lowered in this iteration.
    --- Post updated ---
    So you don't like how buff others and heals helps the bigger group it seems like?
     
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  16. Inkarnation

    Inkarnation Frostjarl
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    as a heavy i already wear +3.xx slashing and bludgeoning rings, and ironskin gives like... 3,7.. 3,9?
     
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  17. Blaze

    Blaze Black Knight

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    yeah most heavies usually wear two meele prot right. I think the buff is x4 tops.So the prot is very very minimal tbh better off throwing a heal than the spell
     
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  18. Billy Lee

    Billy Lee Loremaster
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    While arguments can be made against buff others we are not entertaining any major combat tweaks at this time.
     
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  19. Smile

    Smile Skeleton Archer

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    No, I never said that I do not like heal others.
    And it makes not much sense to me to justify existence of broken game mechanic only because it was even worse before.
     
  20. Blaze

    Blaze Black Knight

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    Seemed like you had issues with buffs and heals in this statement my bad.
     
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