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Poll Chaos Stone and Wilderness Chamber location changes in relation to High End spawns.

Discussion in 'Game Design Discussion' started by Donaddor Lightbringer, Sep 4, 2019.

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  1. Donaddor Lightbringer

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    Basically just wanted to make a thread comparing distance of chaos stones to champion spawns to try to get a kind of consensus on just how far they should be from Champion spawns. I figure the case should be made for alot of spawns but think right now best to try to hammer out a distance largely factoring Champion spawns since end game content and should require runes marked to port ppl near by.

    In addition to that, I figure some argument can be made to change some locations of some Champion spawns and think we'd be able to get a good idea of which ones may be subject to location change if deemed necessary because too close to easy access (Chaos Stones, Wilderness Chambers, blue banks, Housing, and then holdings in order of what should be generally furthest from to closest to important spawns to , housing and holdings being same or similar distance, blue banks generally a little further away from important spawns than holdings or a house IMO.)

    Also wanted to try to keep in mind Wilderness Portal Chambers and just how they should go about being fixed, or more 2 way or more relative and practical/common for average use in daily traveling.

    My Wilderness Chamber change PoV

    Personally I still lean to deleting them and remaking with a linked 2 way system that u can hop over stops u don't need to go to and cost 1 p shard to use no matter how far u want to go. (suggested an interdiction system in UW where u can intercept ppl hopping over your stop for a period of time to create a kind of map dominance aspect that one wont be able to just skip over if using a wilderness chamber.) distance of chaos stone to wilderness portal is an issue too since if too close, numerous ppl can port from anywhere for 2 p shards each and then access a portal hub anywhere in the world faster than the avg person would say from running from a holding to the Wilderness Portal Network.

    Guess if locations of chambers are too desolate in relation to good spawns or from middle map (figure more good spawns will be around mid map rather than just in mid map) one could argue for it to not cost a shard, but figure they wont be in too desolate areas and I'd figure if anyone can access a network thru any wilderness chamber, a portal shard cost would be justified especially if its not too far away from mid map or edges of Islands. Prefer this over a 2 way decentralized system where ppl can play a predicable hopping game rather than hitting a chamber and having a sense of being able to have ported anywhere. load times need to be considerably lengthy.

    These two concepts have everything to do with how players can travel beyond runebooks or runestones and how players would intend to travel around the map without marking runes prior or portal shards.At worse players will plan to run to a Chaos Stone to bind and capitalize on Capital Recall or House Recall.Think if not any wilderness chamber changes any time soon, at least Chaos Stone location changes.

    A good measurement to rule out any kind of too soon load in situations for more important spawn locations (besides rune ins) should be figured out and I'm hoping this thread getting some input can help with deciding what would be too close and too far in relation to high end spawns. (mainly champions spawns, figure a generalizing of "High End Spawns" besides champs would be q4-5 skins / 110 stat pots / rare material above the first grade, IE. Sele / Chal., which I figure all of these can be subject to location changes)

    A kind of food for thought:

    Players being able to port easily in any location near what can be seen as a hot spot due to value of spawn (not just a hot spot because easy to get to and has enough value) can be argued to atleast require a portal shard to port so close. So beyond Wilderness Chambers/Holding chambers, and Chaos Stones, one could argue housing unfortunately, but more logically once open world building is a thing and current villages become PVP monoliths with no housing. (though depending on how high taxes are to keep houses placed could counter the reasoning to charge a P shard per house port no matter how close ppl can build to certain spawns.) Mention this to try to keep in mind this factor, which i feel housing / holdings should be able to be placed closer to important spawns than chaos stones should be, wilderness chamber placed generally a little further away, furthest away from important spawns being Chaos Stones.

    Personally, and i have stated before, I would like villages to stay how they are, not become pvp monoliths if still planned to be since at villages u can raid housing and hit nodes on or around housing, which should get a boost in harvesting and other perks. Also suggested housing module being broken up so that asset can be done at multiple angles, including all walls, windows, roof, foundation, and flooring. Think if there is some kind of TCS villages could be something that can be left largely razed like holdings and real issue is uprooting or trying to change a demographic of a village if villages are to be in existence with open world building.

    As in relation to where holdings can be taken, but placed housing and villages cant. Think more than just raising taxes on someone to try to get them to move, (if u like say, hold control over tile and house owner is enemy clan) or constantly razing villages, there might be a case to be made to consider these housing plots to be as changeable as a holding or other open world building like control towers and what not. Only thing that can ever really remain is the bindstone in a sense. Also becomes an area where your village is bound to get raided more because next to a pvp bindstone in a sense.

    Any kind of implication in this matter would be largely saved for another thread about it since this one is about Chaos Stone and Wilderness Portal locations in relation to High End Mob Spawns. Worse case senario, ur house gets removed cuz destroyed for prolonged period of time, house recall reverts to nearest Chaos Stone, maybe to Village Stone. Maybe make Housing Deeds bound to player.



    Comparing Current Chaos Stone Locations to Champion Spawns:

    Looking at the Island ones first,


    This is where i stopped writing this thread. Was gonna port to each chaos stone as close as possible to every Champion and run to each Champion and time / record it. Marked Runestones there anyways.

    Said fuck it. Should have done so along time ago since i wrote this after i was done marking my Champ Chaos Stone Books, but figure now I'd just post without it and just stress that knowing the differences between champs and Chaos Stone travel timers could help with considering just how far these stones really should be. Runestones will be the main thing used to get back up at champ spawns anyways.

    Guess if someone is bored enough to do it, they can record themselves running to champ spawns from nearest Chaos Stone, but think it may not be necessary, but maybe still appreciated.
     
    #1 Donaddor Lightbringer, Sep 4, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2019
  2. Methodico

    Methodico Fire Elemental

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    A cool start It could be add Chaos Stone on map :)
     
  3. Donaddor Lightbringer

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    Map patch was just a first phase patch kind of thing like market place. Not intended to be a final version. Def. would say it'd relate alot to not only QoL changes but NPE as well and in multiple ways. Map still kill frames when left up or when icons are left toggled on. Map should have def got polished a few more times with market place IMO. (besides anytihng else i can think of like Alignment after breakdown to base foundation for easy to work with starting point.)
    --- Post updated ---
    Wanted to add this suggestion i thought of but forgot to add to thread during creation: Chaos Stones possibly being destructible. large amount of HP, maybe as much as city stone. Alert to those directly bound, maybe also those wearing runebook with stone bound in it. Maybe Only disables Runestone ports, slows bindstone port to a good degree, if its not to completely seal it off or something.
     
    #3 Donaddor Lightbringer, Sep 5, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2019
  4. Donaddor Lightbringer

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    Just wanna post in this thread for future reference:

    Plz only constructive post. All child minded negative post with no substance are spam and I will get a dev to clear this thread of any needless spam. You may not have noticed, but this is game design discussion, I refer u back to the general discussion.

    Think J man post may have been in response to squanto's which was deleted shortly after for the record. Def appreciate the responses in both threads and if anyone disagrees would appreciate the reasoning behind it rather then a post without it.

    Edit: Not to imply this to Squanto's post. IMO I can get the frustration and could see where he was coming from and his over all issue. Wasnt around for it but seemed like he and others put some time into it stressing their opinion on the matter.
     
    #4 Donaddor Lightbringer, Sep 20, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2019
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  5. JasperHawkins

    JasperHawkins Celestial
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    Yes my response was to somebody coming in and making pointless negative comments thanks to donnador and everybody else who has been working hard to try and have sensible discussions and give constructive criticism instead of just complaining endlessly. (Deleted my previous post)
     
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  6. Andrew

    Andrew Eodrin
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    To add to this conversation we're not happy with the final product of chaos stones only for runebooks. Our plan in mind is instead to create a new rune Glyph (working title may change) that players bind runebooks to. This gives us a lot more freedom as we're not trying to balance the usage of runebooks based around current locations. The idea is that we'll add this glyphs all over the place and at existing chaos stones so the ones bound will remain intact. We will add hundreds around the world so you can easily find a Glyph to bind near POI's without being on top of them. This will give us great control over where the runes can be marked. This will also give sieges reliable scouting points to watch for counters.

    Thoughts?
     
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  7. Donaddor Lightbringer

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    Hm, interesting. At the very least sounds like it could be a better than current Runebook system.

    Would say one thing is that with that kind of system ppl wont be able to bind exactly where u would rune into, which is a good thing IMO so that some locations a siege force can't just bind to, maybe needing to bind alittle further away from main POI.

    Initially once the change was implemented (knew it was coming) was hoping it'd be with possibly some chaos stone location changes and maybe some Wilderness Portal changes. Are you guys considering possible Wilderness Portal changes?
     
    #7 Donaddor Lightbringer, Sep 21, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2019
  8. Andrew

    Andrew Eodrin
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    Yes that system was put in very early on and didn't pan out as we wanted it to. We've left it in as there wasn't really a value to remove it but we're open to changes to it.
     
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  9. Volfen

    Volfen Celestial
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    Sounds interesting. Maybe chaos stones shouldn't even be in the game if glyphs were a thing.
     
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  10. Sero

    Sero Menhir Sentinal
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    lol'd
    --- Post updated ---
    Why waste dev time (something there doesn't seem to be a lot of) on creating something new that is the same function as a chaos stone? Jesus.
     
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  11. JasperHawkins

    JasperHawkins Celestial
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    They know they made a misstep with the rune book change and they're trying to correct it in a way that makes sense in a way that is thought out and not just slapped together. Why don't you be negative about it like everything else though...
     
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  12. Sero

    Sero Menhir Sentinal
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    CHAOS STONES ALREADY FUNCTION LIKE "RUNE GLYPHS." WHY WASTE REINVENTING THE WHEEL?
     
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  13. JasperHawkins

    JasperHawkins Celestial
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    If you don't understand that I don't have the time to explain it to your small brains.
     
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  14. Sero

    Sero Menhir Sentinal
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    LOLOLOLOLOLOL.


    More like you can't.
     
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  15. JasperHawkins

    JasperHawkins Celestial
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    Honestly I don't think you understand the spirit of Darkfall or what the developers brought it back for you should probably just f*** off and keep playing World of Warcraft.
     
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  16. Sero

    Sero Menhir Sentinal
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    LOLOLOLOLOLOL.

    More like you don't.
     
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  17. Andrew

    Andrew Eodrin
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    Being able to bind at a chaos stone makes it inherently different than a runebook marking glyph. The problem is we can't just spread chaos stones all over the world as they function differently with the binding ability and the current runebook marking functionality. To allow us freedom to place the rune glyphs everywhere without putting chaos stones all over the place it needs to be decoupled from them. There's just a bit of work to get a rune glyph asset made and a few small changes than we can place them using the world builder. It's not a big change technically but it does play out a lot different than just using re-using chaos stones.
     
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  18. Sero

    Sero Menhir Sentinal
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    Why can't you? If it's okay to mark a rune in a location for instant access, why would it not be okay to respawn naked or recall there?

    You could probably remove the ability to bind out of chaos stones and see 0 change. No one needs to bind out of them, especially when marking a rune to them gives access to the same location as a bind.

    You could also add/readjust the positions of current chaos stones to fit more appropriately on the map.
     
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  19. Methodico

    Methodico Fire Elemental

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    The old runebooks system was perfect.....
     
  20. Volfen

    Volfen Celestial
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    Currently chaos stones have 3 uses:
    • Having a bind after being kicked from a city stone
    • Binding near a good spawn to camp it with an alt or by using capital/house recall
    • Binding alts right outside a player holding so you can recall with 10 battlespikes and harrass all day (you know who you are)
    Seems to me the free port of chaos stones is mostly useful for alt abuse and to respawn naked in middle of nowhere after you lose a siege (assuming you actually got kicked off the stone and aren't getting bindcamped faster than you can even get past loading screen). Removing the ability to bind to them and keeping them just for runebooks seems reasonable.

    I actually strongly disagree with adding more chaos stones/glyph locations willy nilly. I have a dream that someday holdings won't be worthless anymore.