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Combat Paths - A New Era of Combat

Discussion in 'Design Discussions' started by MWTaylor, Apr 24, 2018.

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  1. Shieldbreaker

    Shieldbreaker Crypt Guard
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    It will reduce diversity even more. As is, fire magic is the most used one, with air r90. With this, you will simply have ray, r50, r90, and the school will not matter whatsoever. Better to add in more unique spells, give some r90s more speed, some knockbacks or partial blinds, some heavier non-health stat drains and so on, so you can mix and match and choose depending on the situation, instead of blindly going 'My #1 in rotation r90 went off cooldown, cast it again'

    Think of it, what is water magic r90, for instance, applied a weaker slow melee and slow ranged, in exchange for doing reduced damage, would no one use it? Buff up underused spells, mayhaps nerf overused ones, but do not reduce diversity and choices. Instead, add more diversity and choices and strategy to the combat.
     
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  2. TyteDaddyTite

    TyteDaddyTite Obsidian Golem
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    It obviously increases the diversity. It sounds like stage 2 is going the route of adding more of these, which I think is a good thing. As long as the community provides plenty of feedback, and these "builds" are all tested thoroughly, it has potential to make game better.

    I think everyone should also note, that these changes are down the line after territory control, and until we know more specific numbers, it is hard to judge what impact these changes will have.
     
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  3. Rhulvir

    Rhulvir Goblin Shaman

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    Why are we even having an argument on whether or not combat needs to change?

    Explaining darkfall to a new player now is like:
    Oh, so there's this awesome game, it has the best twitch-based no target pvp of any mmo currently on the market. There's 6 races, a bunch of different weapon types, tons of spell schools with interesting and unique spells and stuff. It's open-world hardcore full loot pvp as well, with awesome sieges and large-scale battles and great 1 v 1 experiences. Then, just as the poor souls' eyes start to light up with excitement, you interject with the almighty "but". But you will have to use the greatsword all the time because it's the single best melee weapon in the game. But 1 handers aren't viable for anything other than blocking. But you will have to play the same "use every school and only certain spells playstyle" as every other player on the server to be viable and not lose your shit in the aforementioned awesome fulldrop pvp environment.

    Oh, and btw, most people have been practicing that single playstyle for years, and you will never get even close to understanding the intricacies of it to their extent. And they never want the combat to change in any way, because the minute some poor soul picks up sidestep instead of double jump, it throws all their hard-earned muscle memory out of whack and they can't hit shit anymore.

    What kind of braindead masochist would want to try a game like that?

    Embrace the change people, and maybe you'll get some better fights out of it. :)
     
  4. Korag

    Korag Evil Eye
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    yes players that do not play because the game is dead go figure, maybe all those players not playing would be pla
    you have yet to offer any valid arguments or say anything remotely intelligent, you sit and doffer one liners with no meat. Insults here n their but I mean cmon this is df everyone is used to those + your shit is just weak
     
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  5. BubbleTea

    BubbleTea Goblin Scout

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    Couldn't be arsed to read 16 pages, but I don't like the idea of generic "gee I'm melee spec so I win in melee" specializations for this game. I'd rather have more options like destroyer which add novel mechanics like "after you land a combo in melee (from consecutive attacks), your next damage spell is also empowered" or "landing a direct hit with a bolt causes your next cross heal to restore stamina as well." Allow a modest selection of these that help players define their gameplay. I really hope you guys stay away from boring passives like +10% fire damage as a part of character progression (I think something like this would be better done by flattening the staff progression a bit and reassigning 1-3 elements to a staff depending on balance). One of the things that I appreciate about Darkfall is that it doesn't really conform to the typical fantasy MMO archetypes.

    Aside from that, I think the buff changes in stage 1 suck. I like the "stealth" mechanic and preparation that self buffs provide. I also really enjoy the other buffs. As a support player, there aren't a lot of other spells in the repertoire that help me fulfill that role outside of heals. Their durations are so short that I don't really see the problem.
     
    #305 BubbleTea, Apr 26, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2018
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  6. Korag

    Korag Evil Eye
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    you should read more pages a lot of that they kind of explain better. Buffs I am middle of the road on it was annoying buffing for 5 min every time ya get ready to fight but cross buffs I think are very strategic and skill based (landing them during combat) and it can tip the scales giving a smaller group a chance to beat a larger one but well see what happens, I hope most or all of it makes it in just to spice shit up and shake things up get people curious and hopefully playing again.
     
  7. Quin Tessence

    Quin Tessence Black Knight
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    My idea for a perk system would have been more along the lines of what Fallout 4 did with the Stats being linked to a perk.
    If the game supported a leveling system or turned the PvE Point system into an XP based system perks could be warded through levels.

    Finding the right levels, the point costs for each tier would be the real challenge.
    This is what I had for an idea so far.



    Strength
    1. 2% Increased Melee Damage
    2. Unlock Power Attack II (Horizontal Swing)
    3. 5% Increased Whirlwind Damage
    4. Unlock Knockback II (Horizontal Swing)
    5. 10% Increased Melee Damage (PvE Only)
    6. Unlock Destroyer (Blocks Elemental Magic) <Can Be Toggled>
    7. 25% Increased Power Attack Damage
    8. Unlock Charge (Begone Style Ability)
    9. 25% Increased Power Attack II Damage
    10. Unlock Advanced Parry (One Handed Weapons Attacks Parry/Deflect Ranged Attacks)


    Vitality
    1. 2% Increased Stamina
    2. Unlock Unfazed (-50% Stam Damage)
    3. 5% Increased Heath
    4. Unlock Guardian (-90% Stamina Drain Blocking)
    5. 10% Increased Heath
    6. Unlock Weapon Skill Conversions (Blocks Elemental Magic) <Can Be Toggled>
    7. 25% Increased Impact/Fall Protection
    8. Unlock Respite (Rage Style Ability Heals Stamina)
    9. 25% Increased Stamina Efficiency
    10. Unlock Indestructible (Blocks Elemental Magic)

    Dexterity
    1. 2% Increased Missile Damage
    2. Unlock Power Shot (No Arrow Drop)
    3. 5% Increased Stamina
    4. Unlock Mana Shield
    5. 10% Increased Missile Damage (PvE Only)
    6. Unlock Mage Killer (Blocks Elemental Magic) <Can Be Toggled>
    7. 25% Increased Power Shot Damage
    8. Unlock 360 Shot (Fires an Arrow Behind You)
    9. 25% Increased Critical Damage
    10. Unlock Mounted Archery (Reduced Damage)

    Quickness
    1. 2% Increased Stamina
    2. Unlock Double Jump
    3. 5% Faster Draw Speed
    4. Unlock Jump Shot / Side Step
    5. 10% Increased Stamina
    6. Unlock Mage Hunter (Blocks Elemental Magic) <Can Be Toggled>
    7. 25% Increased Impact/Fall Protection
    8. Unlock Evade (Upgraded Side Step for Archers)
    9. 25% Stamina Regeneration
    10. Unlock Mounted Double Jump

    Intelligence
    1. 2% Increased Mana
    2. Unlock Spell Range +100%
    3. 5% Increased Spell Damage
    4. Unlock Spell Projectile Speed +40%
    5. 10% Increased Magic Damage (PvE Only)
    6. Unlock Jump Cast (On All Spells, Blocks Whirl Winds) <Can Be Toggled>
    7. 25% Increased Mana Efficacy
    8. Unlock 360 Bolt (Fires Bolt Type Behind You)
    9. 25% Increased R50 Damage
    10. Unlock Spell Concentration (Spells Continuously Fire, Disable Shots to Counter)

    Wisdom
    1. 2% Faster Casting Speed
    2. Unlock Meditation (Mana Regenerates Faster Out of Combat)
    3. 5% Increased AoE Damage
    4. Unlock Assisted Healing (Healing Spells Auto Target Friendlies) <Can Be Toggled>
    5. 10% Increased Mana
    6. Unlock Spell Delay (Spells detonate shortly after impact) <Can Be Toggled>
    7. 25% Increased Impact/Fall Protection
    8. Unlock Focus (Rage like ability that summons Mana)
    9. 25% Increased R90 Damage
    10. Unlock Mounted Casting (Magma Storm based spells only, (Reduced Damage)



    When they mentioned Arrows gaining a ricochet effect it made me really want to see 1H weapons gain a Jedi like ability to swat spells/arrows out of the sky!
     
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  8. Shieldbreaker

    Shieldbreaker Crypt Guard
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    MAKE SITHRAS FUNCTION LIKE LIGHTSABERS! At least in PvE! :D
     
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  9. Methodico

    Methodico Air Elemental

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    This is the real problem! And we need new players!
     
  10. Owyn Magnus

    Owyn Magnus Varangian Warthane

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    I agree that wisdom and a cunning argument are best conveyed through multiple Laugh Out Louds and all caps.

    If you throw in some demeaning insults, all the better!
    --- Post updated ---
    This showed wisdom. Even though you meant it sarcastically.

    People that are playing right now, myself included, do not matter. BPG needs to make changes to the game that will bring the average person back.

    They are not coming back nor playing for the combat. Stop.
     
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  11. SinSemilla

    SinSemilla Stormgraive
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    It's not a pissing contest. I have no idea who you are in any game. What's you knowing me have anything to do with it bud?

    I am confident BPG will work it out and I am here for the ride.

    I just really do not like classes. Some do.

    Quake Live, Quake 2, are the best fps games because everyone is equal. Unlike Quake Champions, the atrocity that was made for the care bears of the current gaming industry. Want to dominate? Sure just pick the current flavor of the month and you can be a bad player and still win.
     
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  12. johntrikone

    johntrikone Undead Dwarf
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    One of the major reasons so many people wanted darkfall 1 back during unholy wars was the combat.

    A big factor of a team working on darkfall 1 as opposed to the continued development of unholy wars was that the combat in df1, while not perfect was already good enough to stand to the point where the development team could focus on adding sand to the sandless box.

    I don't care about these changes. put them in, don't, I honestly could care less. My only hope is that these changes are planned on the distant future after you guys focus on prior ideas such as the territory control system.

    Also if you were planning on going f2p or freemium I'd focus on ways to make that a possibility first. Not trying to be an ass here, just saying you could perfect darkfall's combat and if no one's around money eventually runs out and the servers inevitably go down.

    (people are dumb so I'm putting a disclaimer here, I'm not saying the servers are going down now, tomorrow, a year from now, etc. I don't have that information. But I will honestly say I don't know how they've managed to keep them up as long as they have anyhow.)
     
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  13. Korag

    Korag Evil Eye
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    I agree I don't like classes just saying this isn't a class and you do know me and it isn't personal but I just don't get the thinking or understand why someone would keep calling them classes when they have clearly said that is not what it is. Trinity here btw always liked ya, I just don't get it.
    --- Post updated ---
    but it has proven to not be able to stand a lone, the population of the current game with df1 combat CLEARLY shows that it is not enough to stand on its own.
     
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  14. SinSemilla

    SinSemilla Stormgraive
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    Maybe those players don't play because they are not good and will not take the time to get good.

    As I mentioned a minute ago 'care bears' crying for changing combat to something more 'diverse' when there is no way you can be more diverse in a game than to allow everyone to have everything.

    Trust me there are WAY more bad players than good dedicated players. So I am sure the game will change into what all the bad players want so they can compete with their 'at the time' broken unbalanced skills.
    --- Post updated ---
    You old slut!

    I am just thinking of the past. Maybe BPG will work it out. Classes/specializations/anything that makes it where someone can pick one thing while others may pick something else. Archery specialty compared to mage.

    I am here for the game and love it. The population has definitely been non stop rising. I see people who have not played in months on for weeks after these small patches.

    Market brought people back, couple little updated and all of a sudden I am having a hard time even farming good spots without pvp.
    --- Post updated ---
    In my opinion. If I was the owner of this game and NOT playing too much.

    I 100% would dumb it down because there are SO MANY young players who feel they're entitled to win in games. How could you not go that way.

    $$$ is all I would see.
     
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  15. Quin Tessence

    Quin Tessence Black Knight
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    The hardest part is trying to explain to someone that magic is a tool.

    Melee will finish fights, but magic is needed 100% for transfers, utility, and presser
     
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  16. Animal

    Animal Eodrin
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    @Rhulvir Sidestep is amazing and too many people discredit it. Feelsbadman.
     
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  17. Quin Tessence

    Quin Tessence Black Knight
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    When you have a choice of jumping higher or stepping to the side half a foot, most people will take the ability that lets them jump over 90% of the chest high walls.

    I like side step, but casting explosion magic every time i want over a fence feels bad man.
     
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  18. Korag

    Korag Evil Eye
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    Players like having options, having to think about how you want to play and having choices(not classes because you are not locked in as a class system would be) makes people want to play and this has nothing to do with good or bad, that is another topic of how to maybe keep bad players in the game "I and even Abso are far from being "care bears" they don't want full loot gone they just want to be able to play the way they want and have it be effective. you talk about no way to diversify better than being able to do everything? what everything? you cannot do a full archer build or you will get crushed. Very few people can do destro very well most of those guys get stomped. Mage is the most used but it is the same 10 to 15 spells used over n over because the rest are shit so that = less diversity not more their is nothing diverse about using 15 spells to stay competitive and if ya don't then your at a serious disadvantage and all this does it allow people to play more the way they want, it doesn't form classes or cookie cutter shit, they are not locked in and you can still be full hybrid do everything. So really it changes nothing for you cept make it so others don't have to be like you.

    Miss you too cutie
    --- Post updated ---
    and their in lies the problem, you shouldn't need magic for pressure, a little utility is fine and xfers but the pressure part should have options and kinda does if you are good with a bow.
     
  19. SinSemilla

    SinSemilla Stormgraive
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    I feel when they make the changes though it will create the cookie cutter builds. I hope I am wrong and very possibly will be but, when they add specialty selections that make things have an advantage over others. People will do what we did in UW. Find the most silly broken op skills and use em till they're fixed.

    I am all for anything to bring as many players as possible.

    If they game is a bit more watered down and there are 1k+ people on in prime time! Pfft I would be happy as a pig in fresh straw!
     
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  20. ThiefGarrett

    ThiefGarrett Stormgraive
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    What about the current combat makes it not cookie cutter? Genuinely curious.
     
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