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Combat Paths - Adding Clarity to the Discussion

Discussion in 'Design Discussions' started by MWTaylor, Apr 27, 2018.

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  1. Gaius_Octavian

    Gaius_Octavian Goblin Warrior
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    Having one spec to balance is entirely different from having a dozen specs to balance. Not only does it need to be balanced against the base hybrid style that most people prefer to play, but also against each other. Personally, I really like the idea of having different specs, but I seriously doubt anyone's ability to implement it without immense balance issues.
     
  2. Andrew

    Andrew Eodrin
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    Perfect balance is a unicorn and doesn't exist. The only way to have perfect balance is to remove all specialisation options, give the same single staff, bow and melee weapon and identical skills, have only 1 race/sex and a 100% symmetrical battlefield.

    I'm going extreme but the point is perfect balance is impossible without removing all differences between characters weapons and skills. Achieving a close balance is certainly feasible and isn't dev intensive as some individuals have gone on about. It is design and playtest intensive which will not slow down development on other areas to any real degree.

    Get involved in the focus group and keep an open mind. We hear the concerns and are accounting for that in this design. The game needs to move forward we can't stay rooted in the past. I think you guys will love the changes and diversity it creates, encounters will be far more unique. Let us get through stage 1 together and then when we have a more final document on the paths specialisation system in stage 2 released you can rage then on it :).
    --- Post updated ---
    This is why we have the public test server, together with the community we can get it right, or at least closer ;) to balanced before it goes live.

    Next week we'll probably announce how to get involved and sort the process out. We will be making a chat team solely for combat discussion.
     
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  3. HeganHatsumo

    HeganHatsumo Chosen of Khamset

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    archery melee fall incoming LETS GOO BABY, cya splash nerds time to run back to runescape.

    In the mean time get rid of this two tile fucking long aoe splash on thunderstorm, get rid of wof, and rework eye rot for Christ sake. Revert buff others to how they were in dfo so people stop bitching about TTK.
     
  4. Void

    Void Varangian Warthane
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    !Combat is balanced and fun currently, the reason population is low is because there is nothing to do in game . Farm for 10 min get 10 infernal bags then pvp . We want lore and we want quests with trivial rewards .
     
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  5. Grimtide

    Grimtide Evil Eye
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    Ima gonna let u finish butt....




























    Beyonce has a nice ass
     
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  6. MWTaylor

    MWTaylor Black Knight
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    We want more of those as well and will implement them when we can.

    But there are many out there that want more ways to specialize their character, and it is one of the reasons people have left to play other games. We know this through 3 years worth of feedback from new players, veterans who have left, those still here that agree and by how people voted on the road map.

    All we ask is to keep an open mind and realize you will have a platform to give your input and test these changes.
     
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  7. Frog

    Frog Black Knight
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    I agree that this falls under the definition of a class, and as Gaius rightly points out the more classes you have the more variables you have to balance for. The number of permutations increases exponentially for every class you introduce which means you have to spend more and more time figuring out how to balance them with each other. As you've rightly said, perfect balance is a unicorn. What you have right now is as close to this perfect balance as you can get, it's hubris to think you can change the system in a meaningful way (otherwise why would you introduce a specialization, if it doesn't confer a significant advantage then this is nothing more than aesthetic) and keep some semblance of balance.

    You would need an entire team dedicated to thinking about and altering skills/mechanics in order to balance properly, and though you've expanded your team - which is great - you know as well as the rest of us that you don't have the manpower for that.
     
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  8. MWTaylor

    MWTaylor Black Knight
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    It is a good thing we have an entire community who is passionate about the subject and not shy about giving their opinions. I highly doubt those of you who claim to be PvP experts would allow for a terribly unbalanced system to go through without feedback.
     
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  9. Myater

    Myater Cairn Giant
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    Careful my friend Frog, to many posts like this will get you 3day banned from the forums. But thanks friend for saying what everyone else is saying and actually finding a way for them to actually respond to you, even though their responses are half-assed and kind of dodging your points by saying things that have pretty much nothing to do with what you're saying! :D
     
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  10. MWTaylor

    MWTaylor Black Knight
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    Myater - if you want an example of posts that can lead to you getting in trouble, here is a perfect one. What does this add to the discussion outside of trying to start an argument or get a reaction? We encourage you to get involved and express your opinions, and we have not shied away from providing responses, but we have every right to delete posts and impose moderation if people troll or do not engage in the conversation at hand.
     
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  11. HeganHatsumo

    HeganHatsumo Chosen of Khamset

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    why don't you try implementing some diversity based off adding armorsets, for instance a full blackknight set making you super resistant to fire magic and giving you an archery haste, instead of going the ideal route of hey lets just lock shit out.
     
  12. Grimtide

    Grimtide Evil Eye
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    You guys dodge a lot of my posts and questions tbh. Very dismissive.

    It's ok, the truth is, your job would be easier without people like me around. I get it.
     
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  13. MWTaylor

    MWTaylor Black Knight
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    Well you post quite a lot my friend :grinning: We respond to what we can but part of the goal with these design discussions is to also see the thoughts and some of the debates you guys have with one another.

    And if you ask a very specific question and we do not have the answer yet, we are not going to respond with a bogus one. For example, right now asking specifics of how a particular specialization will work cannot be answered because we have not finalized the design yet.

    Once we have something we can present we most certainly will.
     
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  14. Myater

    Myater Cairn Giant
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    Your responses are just BS ones. It doesn't add to convo lol. What I said is directed to Frog to maybe get him to save some of his time. Time is pretty valuable and therefore I think the post is fine.

    I stopped trying to add to the conversation once my posts got removed for no reason and when I asked why I got 3 day forum banned. If I'm gonna get banned for adding convo then I don't really care to add to it.
     
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  15. Frog

    Frog Black Knight
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    You have a passionate community telling you to avoid these changes entirely and you’ve decided to not listen. The issue isn’t with the community “allowing a terribly unbalanced system to go through” but with the developers taking feedback from experts and deciding they know better.
     
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  16. MWTaylor

    MWTaylor Black Knight
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    You may have missed my response to Void, but there are indeed many who have asked for more ways to diversify or specialize their characters and it is one of the most voted on topics in our road map. Not everyone posts on these forums and those that do only represent a portion of the community.

    It saddens me that after so many years of dead silence and no interaction from a previous development team, people try and push their limits with a team doing their best to be transparent and communicative, especially considering we currently all work for you as volunteers. Your posts were not removed because they added to the conversation or were against the design, they were removed because you were trolling. When we asked you to stop you continued to test your limits until you got a temporary ban.

    Just because you may disagree with the responses you get does not make them "BS". We get brought concerns or questions and we respond the best we can. You may disagree with our answer and that is fine, it is what these discussions are for, but it does not invalidate it.
     
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  17. Frog

    Frog Black Knight
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    I did not miss this post, but you should decide what’s best for the game based on the merit of an idea - not the popularity.
     
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  18. Myater

    Myater Cairn Giant
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    The first post of mine removed was simply pointing something out and it got removed so I asked why and it kept getting removed instead of actually replying. It's pretty funny to me tbh. You guys do what you want, but this patch will kill off ~25-30% of the current population maybe more and the people it brings back will be back for less than a month a then quit just as people always do with patches until there is something to actually do in game. This patch is pointless for that.
    --- Post updated ---
    He's just dodging your point. Accept it friend! :D
     
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  19. MWTaylor

    MWTaylor Black Knight
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    And we believe based off of all the information and feedback we have gathered, and all the metrics that we have, that creating ways for players to diversify and specialize themselves is imperative towards making the game more appealing to a broader audience.

    Everyone can have their opinion and you are free to disagree with that statement, but at the end of the day we have to make decisions as a company that we feel is in the best interest to the future of the game. Our decision after looking at all the facts available to us and all the metrics that we have is that this topic is very important towards increasing in-game population and lowering the barrier of entry for new players.
     
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  20. Isaac Clarke

    Isaac Clarke Varangian Warthane
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    I'm going to start a tally for everytime the devs say "we feel"
     
    #160 Isaac Clarke, May 4, 2018
    Last edited: May 4, 2018
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