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CP Combat Discussion

Discussion in 'Design Discussions' started by Andrew, Nov 6, 2018.

?

Thoughts on combat? (See thread for details)

Poll closed Nov 13, 2018.
  1. Option 1: Revert and poll some changes to keep

    70.2%
  2. Option 2: Tweak current combat

    21.5%
  3. Option 3: No touchy combat right now

    8.3%
  1. Andrew

    Andrew Obsidian Golem
    Staff Member BPG Representative

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    Had to recreate poll sorry for lost votes!

    As we've still had a lot of discussion and requests for combat changes/revert we're opening up the topic for community input. Based on the feedback we're giving 3 options for players to discuss and bring opinions on. The poll is set to allow players to change their choice if desired so please read the whole thread!

    Option 1: Full revert of all combat changes from May 30th's patch till now and poll specific ideas to keep from the list of changes made from May 30th to present.

    Option 2: Make tweaks to current combat with polls on changes to make to current combat including rolling back specific changes we've made or further adjustments.

    Option 3: No touchy combat! it is ok for now, focus on other tasks BPG.

    Here's the compiled patch notes from May 30th to the present for reference that are currently in the game's combat system. I've updated them to ensure we have only the pieces that are currently in the game.

    Compiled combat patch notes
    • Back damage reduced by 50%
    • Self Buffs have been removed from the UI
      They are still in place on the player so levels will not be lost if they are implemented again later
    • Magic protections increased on player crafted Armour.
    • Base casting speed has been increased by 65%
    • Casting delay (between spells) has been reduced by 20%
    • Stamina damage for bludgeoning has been increased
    • The following Specializations have been removed and added by default:
      Double jump and archery jumpshot, unfazed have been added by default.
    • Cobrastaff speed increased from .70 to .75
    • Armor magic protections have been equallized
    • Arrow damage has been separated from piercing damage.
    • Weapon critical hit (random) removed
    • Magic:
      0-40 encumbrance stays the same as old way.
      The effect encumbrance has on the outcome of advanced magic increases every 20 levels
      Advanced magic will reduce in level (1-5) based on encumbrance every 20 levels
    • All advanced magics will fizzle at or above 75 encumbrance.
    • Field AOE’s global cooldown 100% at 20 seconds
    • Toxic rain changed to cold damage.
    • Bolt spells have equal speed, range and damage
    • Impale graphics adjustment, has been made smaller to not affect Alfar as much.
    • Fireball debuff removed, 3s cooldown
      R50s (not fireball) share a 1.5s global cooldown.
    • Light battlespikes no longer provide physics displacement (knockup)
    • Effect encumbrance has on archery increase 1.5x (apprx. 4 less damage @ 100 enc resistances depending)
    • Melee and archery weapon damage equalized again - no more fast/slow variants.
    • Shrapnel got a face lift and faster cast time, renamed to impulse.
    • Clicking before a casting timer is finished will “catch” the cast and will require you to release again to finish.
    • Wall of force has been placed on the global cooldown group with AoE spells.
    • Needles has been placed on the rank 90 cooldown group
    • Mage killer and Destroyer enabled again with an encumbrance affecting variable. From 0-50 encumbrance the affect is at 100%, from 50-100 you lose effect down to a maximum negative of 50% effect at 100+ encumbrance.
    • Buff others haste, range haste and iron skin magnitude lowered.
     
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    #1 Andrew, Nov 6, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2018
  2. BeatIt

    BeatIt Obsidian Golem
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    October 25, 2018 by Andrew | Forum Discussion

    Greetings Agonians,

    Combat Update
    Yesterday marked a final day for the targeted combat revert/tweaks we’ve been working on to address the community’s concerns related to combat. We heard the vocal players asking for a revert and we also heard the positive feedback over several of the combat changes made in the last few months(Yes there was actually a lot!). For this reason we chose to address both groups by a targeted revert/tweaking based on play testing and feedback





    so we done but not done whit combat^
     
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  3. Auron

    Auron Earth Elemental
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    i vote the first option and suggest you bpg to poll this changes :

    make pungent mist instant casting whit + 30 seconds cd

    eye root 30 sec cd

    put needles in the same cd whit magma 15/20 sec cd

    revert light battlespike knock back but whit 5/10 sec cd ( only for warrior whit + 75 enq maybe )

    increase the cd for debuff 15/20 sec

    remove wall of force from the aoe cd and increase a bit the cd

    revert the equalizations for the weapons ( different speed - damage it's better )

    extend city buff to alliance

    revert the unique effect of magic scholls whit some fix if necessary....
    --- Post updated ---
    i forgot the most important....

    Soon you want introduce different quality of armours ( bone / robes ) like metal armour....
    enchanting it's realy a waste of times expecialy for new players...i think it's better add the most important enchantments on armours and weapons / rings/staff/ecc...most hight quality of armour better enchantment ....for example chest bone(or metal ) low quality q1 enqumbrance...bone chest quality 2 q2 bonus enqumbrance ecc

    for most important enchantment i mean :
    enqumbrance ( chest )
    weapon dmg
    staff dmg
    mana efficensy ( staffs)
    stam efficency ( helm )
    slashing protection ( ring )
    arrow prot ( ring )
    blund prot ( ring )
    elementall defense ( shields )

    for the other enchant we need the enchanting station......
     
    #3 Auron, Nov 6, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2018
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  4. Andrew

    Andrew Obsidian Golem
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    As stated the only reason it is being brought up is due to community interest and in the spirit of honouring our community patches. Enough of the community has requested this after our final planned combat patch a few weeks ago so we'll put it on the table. If enough sentiment is behind opening up combat discussion than we'll put it in a poll based on this discussion. If the community votes no touchy than we can put a focus on it to rest for now.
     
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  5. Crunchbert

    Crunchbert Undead Dwarf

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    People can hate on BPG all they want but I've played other indie games and none of the devs give a piss about player feedback. So even if some of their changes dont work out they still get credit for trying.

    So I dont really know what people dont like I'm just a casual non vet but who doesnt get big fights but I do know what I do and dont like about the old / current stuff.

    I like-
    -NO BUFF SPAM- idk if buff spam removal is pre reverting time cuz its not in the list above but I hated it. whenever we would get a fight EVERYONE BUFF every like 9 misn was cancer. and completely devalued enchantments for mitigation and stuff. I love the short cooldowns keeps them viable but not a 24/7 thing.
    -Back damage nerf. Keeps skill involved while making bads get fisted less cuz if u tried to run/heal/anything u died instantly.
    -Better mitigations- lowers ttk, also helps non vets, dying super fast is lame.
    -Bludgeoning wep stam damage buff, helps a weapon that isnt GS to be viable
    -crit removed - rng is lame
    -weapon speed equalization- is lame cuz u have less choice but is good because slow versions usually sucked and it made deepblades/fast variants op.
    -magic haste removal-was op 1v1 v non mages
    -catch thing can be nice
    -Wall of force on field aoe cooldown is good, spell is annoying
    -fireball nerf, fire magic shouldnt ber the best one
    -light b spike hop was aids
    -haste and stuff mag lowered, good were op.

    -shared mage cooldowns have potential, other clone mage stuff see below



    In the middle- Also the thing I wanted improved the most since launch that somehow still isnt that good
    -The magic equalization stuff. Is almost good. Is a good concept. But in its current state in stead of making it a choice there is no choice they are virtually the same. Theres no reason to have multiple different schools if they do the same thing. the shared cooldowns is good it makes them a choice. But the all equal damage effects speed etc just makes them all the same. One could do more stam less damage. One weaker bigger aoe. One more knockup but no stam damage. Etc. Theres so many options, and for all I care they could be tied to a spec. But right ow its just not complete they are just reskins of the same magic playstyle.
    I want DIFFERENT spells / schools to choice from to make differnet play styles / options. Not a bunch of the same.

    Dont like- I have less of these cuz I'm not a vet and havent been getting pvp since returning and am just no clan grinding my new character
    -Mage is locked by an encumbrance level. Murders heavy hybrid, the only other viable playstyle that wasnt destro or generic mage
    -The other encumbrance stuff is weird. I dont see why destro should get a nerf on staff hits if high encumb nerfs top tier armor with more encumb. But the concept of heaving different viable armor setups is ok with me and has potential.
    -I wanted more speed v power staff stuff but idk what happened to that something already got reverted. At least we have the school boost ones I think they are viable.


    To me what I really want from combat changes is more diversity while not screwing new players (ultra fast ttk like before). And these changes didnt really actually hit combat diversity. They kinda did for magic but its just clones its not truly different like it could be. And I'd still like to see more spec's or something different between stuff to make more choices. I want to be able to see 1h weapon tanks, tanky support mages, different school mains, people who primarily bow not just destro and use both. Etc. I think most of these could be made with not overpowered specs that would leave the current meta how it is while making some new stuff viable.

    End giant wall of text lol
     
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  6. NonFactor

    NonFactor Fire Giant
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    i'm ok with the changes above.

    remember u guys changed pungent minst, eye rot and wof cooldown before.
     
  7. Mega

    Mega Ghost
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    Bring back self buffs, so I can uninstall this game again!
     
    #7 Mega, Nov 6, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2018
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  8. The Red King

    The Red King Varangian Warthane
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    If we are reverting lets go hard, I want pmist instant and eye rot back to 18 seconds, plus bring back wof!! Full combat revert or fuck it - leave it as is. Cant complain about shit you only dislike. Df1 purist right here.
     
  9. ArrowExpert

    ArrowExpert Celestial
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    Too many for revert so bad to restart
     
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  10. Sintan

    Sintan Black Knight
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    Saw that.
     
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  11. Andrew

    Andrew Obsidian Golem
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    I forgot to enable tracking on it and I couldn't do it after the fact apparently so I had to recreate the poll.
     
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  12. Sintan

    Sintan Black Knight
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    Hopefully the people who voted come back and see they have to vote again.
     
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  13. MerleisAirdburne

    MerleisAirdburne Black Knight
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    I just want battlespikes back, they were so much fun to use. I also liked buffing, but I know thats an unpopular opinion.
    Also, revert r50 and r90 cooldowns
     
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  14. Crunchbert

    Crunchbert Undead Dwarf

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    Idk if you can do it with this forum but if you can make each one of the combat patch notes a poll option and let people select all that apply. and then say to pick all changes you dont like. Will then be easy to see what the most / least liked changes are. Most people want revert but would be easy to see what they actually want reverted.
     
  15. ArrowExpert

    ArrowExpert Celestial
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    Just messing homie no worries.
     
  16. Andrew

    Andrew Obsidian Golem
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    Forum polls might get tampered with by new accounts so I've enabled the tracking to ensure no option sees a bunch of new accounts all of a sudden swaying it.

    Not taken back just being transparent :)
     
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  17. Sero

    Sero Forest Golem
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    *COUGH* *COUGH* IN GAME POLLING SYSTEM *COUGH* *COUGH*
     
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  18. Grisvok

    Grisvok Skeleton Archer

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    Questions are odd. Should just be full revert yes or no. Option b and c are pretty similar but being counted separate right now.
     
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  19. Sero

    Sero Forest Golem
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    This is going to be REALLY annoying. There's some stuff on here that's kind of necessary.

    - You have to have: Base casting speed has been increased by 65%

    - Made sense, barely affected anything

    - Fuck random crits, especially with daggers

    - AoE spam was too much, if we don't remember.

    - This change made it so Toxic was the only AoE you could use.

    - Makes sense, no difference, mainly a PVE change.

    - Please for the love of god dont change this

    - Cooldown on bspikes? But then, why get bspikes, why not just stick with an ability like impulse, but make it an exact replica of the bspike action.

    - QoL that I enjoy, im sure others do as well

    - Necessary as fuck

    - Also necessary. This is what we originally asked for lmfao.



    It's a big fucking list boys.
     
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  20. Inositol

    Inositol Obsidian Golem
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    • Back damage reduced by 50% ---- Higher TTK, generally good.
    • Self Buffs have been removed from the UI ---- Allow for casting of ONE elemental buff at a time, make it instant cast. Re-add stoneskin, or keep it removed and increase physical protections while removing enchanting from rings. Re-introduce Spell Haste.
    • Magic protections increased on player crafted Armour. ---- Higher TTK, generally good.
    • Base casting speed has been increased by 65% ---- Remove with the re-implementation of spell haste. The casting speeds have never been fully corrected.
    • Casting delay (between spells) has been reduced by 20% ---- Keep casting delay reduced, but introduce a delay between weapon switches to encourage transitions, allow for destroyers to punish mages, and move away from pure DPS being the only viable playstyle.
    • Stamina damage for bludgeoning has been increased ---- Why not.
    • The following Specializations have been removed and added by default:
      Double jump and
      archery jumpshot, unfazed have been added by default. ---- Should have to choose between Archery jumpshot and mage killer.
    • Cobrastaff speed increased from .70 to .75 ---- Cobras cost far too much and are too similar to blackbolts with the same casting time.
    • Armor magic protections have been equallized - Increase damage of lightning bolt, normalize transmute damage.
    • Arrow damage has been separated from piercing damage.
    • Weapon critical hit (random) removed
    • Magic:
      0-40 encumbrance stays the same as old way.
      The effect encumbrance has on the outcome of advanced magic increases every 20 levels
      Advanced magic will reduce in level (1-5) based on encumbrance every 20 levels
    • All advanced magics will fizzle at or above 75 encumbrance.
    • Field AOE’s global cooldown 100% at 20 seconds ---- Remove Ice Storm from list of Field AoEs.
    • Toxic rain changed to cold damage.
    • Bolt spells have equal speed, range and damage
    • Impale graphics adjustment, has been made smaller to not affect Alfar as much.
    • Fireball debuff removed, 3s cooldown
      R50s (not fireball) share a 1.5s global cooldown.
    • Light battlespikes no longer provide physics displacement (knockup) ---- Add a 10~15 second CD, remove Impulse.
    • Effect encumbrance has on archery increase 1.5x (apprx. 4 less damage @ 100 enc resistances depending)
    • Melee and archery weapon damage equalized again - no more fast/slow variants.
    • Shrapnel got a face lift and faster cast time, renamed to impulse. Remove or re-purpose with the re-implementation of spikes, or replace spike animation / sound with Impulse's new ones.
    • Clicking before a casting timer is finished will “catch” the cast and will require you to release again to finish.
    • Wall of force has been placed on the global cooldown group with AoE spells.
    • Needles has been placed on the rank 90 cooldown group
    • Mage killer and Destroyer enabled again with an encumbrance affecting variable. From 0-50 encumbrance the affect is at 100%, from 50-100 you lose effect down to a maximum negative of 50% effect at 100+ encumbrance.
    • Buff others haste, range haste and iron skin magnitude lowered.

    And two more that need addressing -
    • Reduce cooldown on eyerot, remove casting time on Pungent, reduce cost of pungent. The reduction in player mobility (spikes) has made creating distance and avoiding melee considerably more difficult. The effectiveness of Pungent is negated by ANY animation by the enemy player and eyerot's effectiveness has been lowered considerably by the lack of screen shake. Tracking players through eyerot is now considerably easier.
     
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