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'Dat Grind

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Stormsblade, May 7, 2017.

  1. Kernal Mustard

    Kernal Mustard New Member
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    Uhh yeah.
    I even know a guy with 25 gs mast. And there was plenty other spawns around the world.

    That's the disgusting part. Is that it's not like you had to leash a cairn giant up a tower... You literally walked up to the mob... And he stands there and let's you swing. With a decent hp pool. They said they fixed bug spawns for launch. But the least skill required one somehow slips through... Hahah oooookkkaayy

    How do you not know about such an obvious exploit when you launch a game?
    Then conveniently patch it after 3 days of straight grinding from elitist clans creating an insurmountable gap between new players and ppl who know wtf is going on. That's dark fall though I guess.

    Odd there's been no punishment though.
     
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  2. Lexendros

    Lexendros Infernal
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    First logical post by a New Dawner I've ever seen.
     
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  3. Whisper

    Whisper Air Elemental
    ANN Reporter

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    People quit Darkfall because the economy was a joke. There were too few gold sinks, leading to infinite inflation. Item sinks were too slow, leading to itemized power creep. With the PvE being challenging but not rewarding gameplay in and of itself, after players maxed their characters there was simply no reason to do anything but PvP. Anyone who wasn't up for just PvP was alienated. Crafters had no purpose because everyone had a full bank. PvErs had no purpose because what was the point of killing more stuff with a full bank? How do you make gold off of farming items if no one is buying them because everyone had hundreds of said item? What do you need gold for if you have maxed skills, a bank full of gear, and hundreds of thousands of each reg?

    A sandbox needs a living breathing economy to function. I'm hoping that BPG understands this and intends to fix the DF economy in the long run. Ultimately, it's the only hope for Darkfall to ever succeed.

    What you're suggesting is to cut out the one activity that can retain players in the meantime, so that one month from today, we'll be having the same existential crises for all non-100% PvP players that we had back in late 2010. I'm saying we give BPG more time to figure out what they want to do with the economy long-term, because that's not an easy problem to fix, especially when the majority of Darkfall players, perhaps including yourself, don't even understand that it was at the core of what went wrong with Darkfall, and will likely fight tooth and nail to prevent any meaningful changes to the economy when and if BPG decides to make any.

    Darkfall players are supposed to be hardcore, but mention EVE's economy to them and they shit themselves. You want to fight for something on the forums? Fight for something meaningful.

    Just for good measure, @Andrew. I know you've been thinking about this because you've had your team develop tools to monitor item metrics, to see how much "stuff" is in the game, sitting in banks. You also reduced the rare drop rates to counter itemized power creep. I'm assuming you understand that it's a short-term solution, and I'm hoping you're going to be working in the meantime on what we both know needs to happen in the long-term, which is balancing the I/O aspect of the economy, for as many items as you possibly can. That probably means item destruction on gank, as painful as that will be to a population that has never had to deal with it before and is obsessed with looting full bags. Durability solutions only work for weapons/armor and in the past have just annoyed people. Perhaps leave durability the way it is, but have chance based destruction for non armor/weapons and durability degradation upon gank for armor/weapons? Keep bags off of the destroy list. I think that might be digestible to players, if they had the reasons behind it clearly explained to them.

    I get that there is no easy solution and you likely don't even have the data to make a guess as to what those solutions would be right now, hence the new monitoring tools. I trust what your team has done with the game so far and I greatly appreciate it. I'm looking forward to what you come up with for the economy, but don't let the playerbase push you off of a change that you know will be good for them in the long-run. We want Darkfall to live, grow, and thrive, even if that includes growing pains for us vets.
     
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    #43 Whisper, May 7, 2017
    Last edited: May 7, 2017
  4. saouled

    saouled Goblin Shaman

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    They should have disabled them, it is stupid tbh.
     
  5. SupDude

    SupDude Gravelord
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    2009.
    First weeks of dfo launch
    Thousands of mandrakes for spellchanting in one macro night were giving me 2.5 points 3 points top.

    Enough said
     
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  6. Garou Lintermittent

    Garou Lintermittent Goblin Shaman
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    The noobs cannot compete in a single week for sure, for the sole reason that the "grind" to actually get good at the game is much longer than the one to make your character viable. Noobs will always lose to vets until they've put in the hours of training to get good, and no amount of accelerating the grind is gonna change that.

    The people in this thread who complain about "viability" are just lazy and unmotivated. You won't become good at the game with that kind of attitude.
     
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  7. Mycke

    Mycke Obsidian Golem

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    This solution is going to take a lot of the fun of looting people out of the game and maybe a better solution is one that both discourages using too low a dura and at the same time takes things out a little faster.

    As an example.

    Starting at 10 dura everything begins to get a probability of full destruction on next hit based on the equation 10 - current dura = next hit breaks so a dura of 5 is 10 - 5 = 5% chance of full break, but that is happening every hit so once things get below 10 they will probably break before or not soon after getting to 5.

    What a system like this does is make wearing too low a dura gear too risky while effectively making things break 5-10 dura earlier than if completely worn out, so people will use, wear and risk better gear. I am not saying this particular example is the only or even best way to do it, but more to show there are other ways of dealing with it than gank damage.
     
  8. Whisper

    Whisper Air Elemental
    ANN Reporter

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    Yeah there are lots of ways you could implement it, I'm entirely open to a solution that doesn't reduce fun. I could argue that PvP is supposed to be the fun, and make the argument that if people are going to be upset about item destruction on gank, were they really playing for the PvP in the first place, or for the pixels? If continued PvP depended entirely on some items getting degraded/destroyed on gank, would that be worth it? But I don't even need to go there because yeah, looting is fun. Point is, one way or another, a healthy economy that is based on infinite supply needs to be based on infinite demand, which means planned obsolescence. It's a simple equation, one way or another, you need to destroy things far faster than they were being destroyed in DFO back in 2009-2012.
     
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  9. Mycke

    Mycke Obsidian Golem

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    Its more complex than that, because the gank damage will also further promote using low dura gear even more than now because not only do you not care is you lose the low dura gear having worn it down already, but you get the last laugh because you know its going to just turn to dust on gank anyway. So the person using the low dura gear gets all the advantages of that gear while the person who kills them gets very little in return for having defeated them.

    There needs to be less reasons to use low dura gear, not more.
     
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  10. Fengor

    Fengor Obsidian Golem

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    I used to sigh every time I got a title quest. In every iteration. Honestly though, with spawn scaling, I feel like pveing with friends is beneficial as opposed to counter productive. I couldn't even loot/skin al the goblin graves I was farming with a friend.
     
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  11. Aristos Giannes

    Aristos Giannes Cairn Giant
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    There needs to be -some- level of grind to gradually introduce new players to such a complex game with so many skills to learn/bind. Throwing them into the deep end is a sure fire way to frustrate them enough to quit.
     
  12. Whisper

    Whisper Air Elemental
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    So then make it so that every item in your bag has a 50% chance to be destroyed. That's how EVE works - I have no problem with that. Leave loot to the loot fairy. I just think that the vast majority of DF players would lose their shit (literally, lol, but also figuratively) over that change, and so being a bit gentler in some way with armor/weapons would probably make it more stomachable.

    I can't believe I'm even discussing making features less hardcore for Darkfall players, but yeah, that's my feeling on it.
     
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  13. Zuul Ghat

    Zuul Ghat Dire Zombie
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    What grind? I and many others have fire magic day 1. Original launch took like 4 months.
     
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  14. Sorek

    Sorek Goblin Shaman

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    Another instant gratification "me me me" kid

    Move along...nothing to see here.
     
    #54 Sorek, May 7, 2017
    Last edited: May 7, 2017
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  15. Hans

    Hans New Member

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    In today world nobody want to work anymore who cares how long it takes just play the game and dont worry about the grind in will come
     
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  16. Lincoln Hawk

    Lincoln Hawk Fire Elemental
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    Exactly.

    I banged out 300 trolls in 40 mins today with a group of random alfars, shits dope.
     
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  17. kompletist

    kompletist Goblin Warrior
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    I just want to know what your wife thinks about your g/f. Really big fan of the use of shittly as well.
     
  18. Train of Pain

    Train of Pain Infernal
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    If your Aim with a bow in this game was any hint as to your aim in PUBG you might want to go to wow
     
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  19. WizardKing

    WizardKing Skeleton Archer
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    OP has no purpose on these forums. Ban this trash.
     
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  20. Eagleglow

    Eagleglow Ghost
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    i dont see the grind, i mean comeon DnD have alot slower speeds and at there indev server launch after one month ppl had characters that were 65% lvled "stats at 65-75 and spells at 50-75"
    Every mmo i played it takes 2-3 months to get to end game and in darkafll you can do end game in your first week with a clan stop crying, i just did 50 archery after like what 1.5h.....
     
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