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'Dat Grind

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Stormsblade, May 7, 2017.

  1. aaraym

    aaraym Undead Dwarf
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    My thinking on this topic has to do with time. If someone has an active sub for 6 months and the majority of the player base is far exceeding them it makes sense to give something to help the keep up.

    I am a big fan of offline time equal increase gains of some sort. If someone is logged off for several days give them 3x gains for a 2-3 hours. Maybe more, you need to do something to help people with less time keep up to retain them.
     
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  2. VVolfgang

    VVolfgang Fire Elemental
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    Apparently you never played the Original DFO that was a grind.
     
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  3. Dixie Normus

    Dixie Normus Black Knight
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    most of what im getting from you is someone got away from you on a mount that you couldnt kill with a bow.
    literally thats the impression im getting. you could have spent like an hour getting to fire magic and bolted it down instead.
     
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  4. Stormsblade

    Stormsblade Goblin Warlord

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    The spectre of having my body chewed up by a thousand teeth and shat out into a blender doesn't make getting shot in the head any more appealing.
     
  5. Shaocoo123

    Shaocoo123 Goblin Scout

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    Im working on getting them to meet, but its taking some serious mdma dosing. In all honesty to the people that enjoy the PvE you have to decide. Do you enjoy the in my opinion... Amazing combat... Or do you enjoy the shit tier PvE.
     
  6. Whisper

    Whisper Air Elemental
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    Out of sheer curiosity, what would you consider to be non-shit tier PvE? Given unlimited resources, could BPG do anything to the PvE to elevate it to a tier that you would enjoy, and what would that look like?
     
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  7. Fengor

    Fengor Eodrin

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    Getting shot in the head is quick and painless. Just like the grind. Much preferred to the prior idea.
     
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  8. Aristos Giannes

    Aristos Giannes Cairn Giant
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    For me all I need is some counter attacks/dodges. Basically take some notes from Dark Souls, add some 'weak spots' to aim at, make some spots weak to different types of attacks, then i'll be super happy.
     
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  9. Shaocoo123

    Shaocoo123 Goblin Scout

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    Hmmm... Ok so quest based AI interactions add a nice flavor to a PvE adventure, during the fall of UW they were talking about getting the community to design quests. Quests are great when done right (Elder Scrolls, story style quests). Also, Even just adding some environmental traps to the spawn areas. Puzzles, mazes, activated draw bridges to fight over. ANY type of flair better than just an open space where crappy AI/ skinned monsters spawn.

    I personally think the best bet is having a questing line tied into a world event, or even some random king in a castle needs a goblet from the bottom of a dungeon, Now, dont skimp on the story, when designing the quest add some flair to it. So say, while heading into the dungeon you encounter a poor waif asking for help to find their missing child. You can do that as well, all at the peril of being seen by other pvpers, or continue on to the goblet. Maybe you find a guy in a cell, down in this dungeon asking for a king, on a jailer deep into another part of the dungeon, you can do that as an option as well. Just random ideas ive come up with in 5 min. But just adding LIFE to the world is a great start to increase the PvE aspect of Darkfall.. Which is obviously where is lacks the most. Even giving house item rewards for completing these quests. So now the player is focused on retrieving this item for their house, and gaining skills is secondary, yet still primarily what they are doing while grinding towards the jailer to get the key for the cell.


    So UW was amazing in every way. BUT!!!! When there was no war, the game was so boring, because all you had was PvE, which is boring. and Life less. I think if they can spice that aspect of the game up were looking at a decent population retention.
     
  10. hirve

    hirve Goblin Warlord

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    because dota/lol/overwatch/csgo/pubg/etc have 0 weeks of grind and are fun immediately, and are also better games

    you should be pvp viable (in terms of abilities) the first time you log in. grinding the ability to cast terrible heals in a dumpy rpg was probably not even very fun the first time and it sure isn't fun any time after that, and every other game on the planet has 1000x better pve than darkfall
     
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  11. Whisper

    Whisper Air Elemental
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    So not so much a mechanical change to the way PvE works, but rather a better framework to it. It's an interesting idea. I think, and this applies to all games with PvE content, questlines are dangerous because they are often consumable. You complete them... and then what? It also consumes a lot of dev time to write all of that only to have the players complete all the quests in a week.

    My feeling has always been that DF should incorporate more dynamic content. Not procedurally generated, bland flavorless shit, but instead dynamic events that would lead to emergent gameplay. Roaming boss monsters is a good example, and has been talked about before. NPCs that establish beachheads/siege camps and wreak havoc on a region until someone battles them back and destroys their fortress could be interesting. Large-scale events that would either draw a lot of different groups and create hotspots for PvP, or require the cooperation of different groups to battle them back just due to the scale. Also, the rewards would need to be significant to actually generate interest, and the consequences of ignoring it would have to be severe. As in, they'd come destroy your cities/camp portals and spawns/make life hell kind of severe.

    There's a ton that could be done with PvE, and I definitely think an on-going conversation should be had, aimed at implementing more of it in the future.
     
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  12. Mighty Mouse

    Mighty Mouse Akathar
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    I get what this guy is saying though. For new players that have never seen the end game and don't realize its worth it to keep playing. I worry about losing the new players. I played this game before and still was very confused about all the things I needed to do. I knew though there was a lot of things to accomplish so I looked for ways to accomplish them. Someone coming in here that does not know shit could be overwhelmed especially when their sword skill goes up 1 point every hour after killing 100s of goblins. I know the end game though so ill stay. I just hope the new players do the same.
     
  13. Aristos Giannes

    Aristos Giannes Cairn Giant
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    But those are all different types of games. Do you expect to have a max character in Skyrim right when you log in? This is basically an RPG like that online.
     
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  14. Ivanhoe

    Ivanhoe Crypt Guard

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    I haven't noticed a huge grind like previous DF. I HAVE noticed insane skill and stat increases which means instead of macroing for 2 weeks 24/7 you can actually run around and play the game and be viable. The front loaded stats are noticeable as well.
    If you're someone who can only pvp/pve/play DF with a max'd out character running around looking for call of duty fights then this is not the game for you.
    I DID notice I could easily enable meditation which levels up other stats/skills which saves me a lot of time and allows me to do other things ingame while continuing to gain skills in other skills that I want.

    Looking forward and hoping that the communication and the patches/updates to the game keep coming in regular basis to continue improving upon what we have right now.
     
  15. Aristos Giannes

    Aristos Giannes Cairn Giant
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    This is going to sound anti-Darkfall, but what would relieve literally all of the pressure to grind, and instantly even make the grind fun for these guys, is adding some ability to tell how much higher another player is than you.

    So basically you have a hidden player level that is a combination of combat and magic skills, like runescape. When you see someone's name, an arrow to the side of their name could resemble whether they are higher or lower than you. Green for barely any difference, yellow for more, orange for quite a bit, and red for a ton. That way players can decide whether or not to fully engage a fight if they see someone leagues ahead of them, and won't get shitstomped by them and rage about the grind and how they must have 'no-lifed' the game and they can't afford to do that.

    You'd be able to take the game at your own pace and compete with other players of your player level if you choose. The grind can even be reverted to the old, slow pace if this is done imo.
     
  16. Rimamok

    Rimamok Spellgazer
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    Personally, I think gear already acts to that effect, providing a visual cue.

    Myself, I always liked harvesting near startertowns and then surprising the brigands who came by for an easy gank. If character prowess were available via some visual cue, those kinds of possibilities would be diminished.
     
  17. Aristos Giannes

    Aristos Giannes Cairn Giant
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    Maybe gear could add into the equation? So you could artificially lower your 'level' by wearing really crappy gear. Basically dress like a noob to resemble one
     
  18. Battle Smurf

    Battle Smurf Oak Lord
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    I think the grind is fine for anyone who starts now

    HOWEVER you could consider the EvE route and as time goes by you make new characters start with an increasing amount of meditation or +stat points that can instantly be spent on things they want to help them start at less of a gap

    PvP viability is all relative

    I wouldn't want to be a vet starting 3+ months late let alone a total newbling.
     
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    #78 Battle Smurf, May 7, 2017
    Last edited: May 7, 2017
  19. Ivanhoe

    Ivanhoe Crypt Guard

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    That is the complete opposite idea of DF and one of the fun aspects of the game as well as making a reputation for your character name is not knowing what "level" your opponent is. Even being able to look at their gear they wear can give away too much info.
    People will know who the great pvpers are by name not by what they are wearing or if it labels them higher "level" then you etc.
    I want to wear a robe over my armor (like uo) just so others wouldn't know if i was a poor naked noob in a robe or a rich fat pro pvper wearing infernal/dragon hiding under my robe.
     
  20. Stormsblade

    Stormsblade Goblin Warlord

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    As a counter-argument, I loved that I could see prowess on a player in DF:UW, so I would know not to gank the newbs.
     
    #80 Stormsblade, May 7, 2017
    Last edited: May 7, 2017