It's up to the player to make modifier keybinds, those are not default standard keys. Shift for sprinting and Ctrl for crouch are standard keys in fps games. We should be thinking standard defaults and then working around that.

It's really simple if you leave shift for sprint only, ctrl for crouch only. The rest of the keyboard is then wide open. You can have ALT dedicated to alternative use, being the Use key with ALT and it makes sense because it's the same key but with ALT.

From there I would make sure nothing else uses SHIFT, ALT or CTRL for defaults.
The player can change keybinds if they need to but everything needs to be standardized and simple to play with.

 

Honestly the "sprint" key should be unbound. Autosprint should be bound to an offbutton for the sole purpose of altering your mounts sprint to save stamina. Not having autosprint on by default is already setting up a newb for failure.




This whole idea behind standardized keybinds for players is silly by the way. Darkfall has always required (even after the changes) a ridiculous amount of keybinds that become highly customized by the time you shift out of being a noob, simply because everyone is different. Expecting a piss ton of spells to be bound to a piss ton of keys and for noobs to simply "get them" like other games is ludicrous.

The solution isn't standardizing keybinds, the solution is making it so less needs to be bound.

 

Didn't say that, that's your interpretation maybe.
I want keybinds that are intuitive and simple, that appeal to a broader audience, which can transition to a player's own ideas as they grow.
I agree with making less keys necessary to play, that's the minimalism I hope for, but I don't believe in removing traditional standards because that makes the controls alien for first time players, which results in "clunky" first impressions.

It takes an experienced player to make the controls smooth in this, to a long term player that's second nature, you have to acknowledge that you've adapted your own style to keybinds ... that is what the settings and experience are for... the defaults are meant to transition you, to allow you to enjoy the game to the point where you care about changing them and making your own method.

I'm just asking that standard keys are maintained, and other things are woven around that to make an intuitive minimalist set. By standard I mean something that is commonly used across many games, that are easily recognizable.

 

My interpretation and a lot of others interpretation since they suggest full vet keybinds accompanied by spells and such. Attempting to standardized those won't help.

Nothing can be more intuitive than a bar of 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-0. That has been the standard in games for a long, long time. Simple changes like backpack/paperdoll to I etc. are fine, though I don't see them making a difference. You also don't need to sprint in many other games, so having it unbound and having autosprint on from the start just makes more sense in streamlining the learning.

 

I think it's good to bring up vet / weird personal binds even if they're not useful for the original purpose they could solve a different problem. For something like mobilities, blinds it would be good to have the player get 1 basic one of each kind to understand how those work but not more. Instead let them unlock them and work out where to put them themselves

 

I think we are over-complicating this. Setting up keybinds is tedious. Don't force new players to set up their own keybindings, otherwise what is the point of the defaults? The default binds need to be playable, but easily changeable. You don't need to overwhelm the player in the tutorial by showing them every single hotkey/spell. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be there in a practical setup by default.

The grind is already there to prevent this anyways. Once a player unlocks a new spell it should already be bound, and the game should tell them what it is bound to in their spellbook so they see what it is bound to when they are good and ready for it. Could also have a small popup tutorial window that explains the spells function as well as the bind when a new spell is unlocked. Some may think that is too complicated and overwhelming, but if people don't like tutorials they can turn them off or skip them...

The essentials for the very beginning of the game are... 2-hander melee bind, sword and shield bind with auto parry (with an explanation of how important that is to have at all times), staff bind, bow bind, transfers (explaining how important it is to spam transfers to keep vitals up).

I can't stress this enough, just let people get used to a vets already established good bindings at their own pace. If people want to customize they are free to do so (and they easily will be able to with the good examples of keybinds that are set as the default).
--- Post updated ---

No no no no no. Don't force players to make their own keybinds. It is tedious. I repeat. IT IS TEDIOUS. See what I wrote above.
--- Post updated ---

This is because there has never been good defaults before and everyone has always had to set them up by themselves... it doesn't need to be that way.

 

Agree100%

 

Lol no dude. This is because theres over 20 active abilities you need to use and bind. Do you know how absurd that is even before the dumbing down of video games set by todays standard?

You can sit here and chase your tails all you want trying to remedy this issue. Be my guest. It's not going to have the effect you want and will ultimately be a waste of time.

 

Whats absurd is expecting everyone to set up over 20 active abilities you need to use and bind by themselves without even knowing what is what and how the combat works.

 

Yea I know. If only players weren't thrown into the endgame of an MMORPG within 3 days of playing and had time to progress and learn things.

Take a look at the difference between a level 1 and level 60 WoW character hotbar.

The same type of person that will take the time to learn the absurd amount of binds in this game within the short amount of time things are thrown at you is the same type of person that will take the time to customize his own binds.

People keep thinking just throwing what works for people who have played the game for 10 years at brand new players is going to fix things. It won't. Especially not people seeking an MMORPG, and the ones seeking an FPS will just laugh at the amount of binds they need to learn and go back to 1 tapping kids on CS:GO.

 

Obviously this isn't the end all be all of fixing the game. It will help though.

There is more time than you think for a new player to adjust to the binds. A new player is not going to reach end game in 3 days. There is too much crafting and farming required. Noobs are also inefficient at farming/grinding so you need to factor that in as well... A vet may be able to max out in 3 days because they know where to go and what to do to maximize profit while also grinding their character. But a noob will spend their first week killing goblins and trolls trying to do the worthless starter tasks (and sometimes won't even be grinding their magic while they are at it)... may as well be using good keybinds while they inefficiently play so it isn't a complete waste of their time. At least they will be getting accustomed to worthwhile bindings.

You also must admit that it is impossible as a new player to set up good keybindings without the guidance of a vet. Well, why not just skip that all together and give them a good template to work with? I'd wager that many wouldn't bother with customization and would settle for the pvp viable default binds. Nobody claims this is going to fix the game, but it certainly is going to make a big difference for the new player experience. If you deny that then I don't know what to tell you... yikes?
--- Post updated ---

Oh well my mistake then. From reading the thread it sounded like you were throwing out the idea of pvp viable default bindings for a more minimalist approach and making players finish the bindings when they unlock stuff. The bindings need to be already set up of for end game pvp. The initial tutorial doesn't need to cover the end game though. No need to throw everything at the new players right away. Like I said you could just list the binds in the spell book next to each spell.

If all goes well then we'll have the ranked arena and noobs will be able to practice against other noobs and progress organically whenever they feel like it.

 

Sure.

Gotjas binds are already default as NeilK said. The only thing that can be further done at this point is a popup that simply says "you've acquired (spell/skill) equip (weapon type) and press (bind) to use it." similar to the tutorial at the start.

I don't know how much you guys think this will help though. New players in Darkfall stick around because they like the gameplay and learn binds because they like so much.

Ask any vet whos attempted, how handholding works. It doesn't.

It doesnt matter if you tell them what the bind is, theres still going to be 20+ of them to remember.

 

You say new players stick around because they like the gameplay, but most don't get to the real gameplay because setting up binds is aids lol

This kind of change significantly simplifies the "handholding"

Instead of telling the noob you decided to take out farming, "hey man you need to bind your heal other spells/parry/buff others/transfers" (then spending 5-10 minutes teaching them how to do that, and in the process boring them to death), you can just say, "alright man you can heal me by pressing x" (or whatever the bind is).


This way vets can teach new players how to play the game quickly and efficiently without the unnecessary tedium (setting up the binds)

 

Thats the problem though. Everything RoA has done is trying to rush to "the real gameplay" instead of making everything more enjoyable. What even is "the real gameplay?" Take a look around, no one is subbing to get zerged down at the next siege or village.

The binds are ALREADY default, so vets can ALREADY say press (bind) to heal me.

 

That's a whole different problem. IMO PvP with fun fights is "the real gameplay". Currently there is no guarantee of fun fights in the game. It's actually very unlikely to find a good fight in this game. Zerging is not fun. Getting shit on by better players is not fun. Raping somebody with worse gear or getting raped by someone with better gear is lame. All of these problems feed into eachother. IMO the arena will solve this. If there is an avenue for fun fights then nobody will care if open world stays a shit show of zergs.

What do you think "the real gameplay" is? I play this game for the PvP... which is also ironically why I don't play this game for the above reasons...


Also, these defaults are pretty new and hardly anybody has been really playing since they've been added. The current tutorial is severely lacking. Have you helped any noobs out with them? It blows my mind how anybody could be against improving the new player experience...

 

Not against improving the NPE, I just don't think it's going to have theefect you think it will. The way I see it. IF the game is paced, and is enjoyable, binds become a non-issue due to players binding them as they acquire them and enjoying the game for what it is.

It's also not going to have the effect you think it will because again, there is over 20 bindings and learning these binds is the REAL hurdle when it comes to binds. Players have been sharing binds since before Gotja's binds ever became default. Vets have given binds to noobs and done exactly what you said, press "x" to heal me. Setting the binds up isn't the issue, the amount of binds is.

 

I think setting up binds is very tedious...

What are you suggesting though? If we limit the amount of binds necessary won't we be completely changing the PvP?
--- Post updated ---
Also, if you make people set up their own binds as they acquire skills it just leads to them needing to completely redo them in the end because more than likely they won't be making informed decisions on what is important and easy to press in PvP...

 

There's been numerous "Combat" suggestions made to keep it relatively the same but lower the amount of binds necessary. Too much crying about "Combat change this, combat change that" and too many pointless Destro buffs (when in reality it should have been mage nerfs via spell choice size) to do it now though.

The reality of the situation of Darkfall is unless the absurd amount of spells is lowered, it won't attract a wider audience. It's probably the games biggest pitfall when it comes to new players, but no one wants to talk about it because vets enjoy the old DFO so much (even though ROA has been different since the beta removal of paperdoll lock)

People will choose the binds that are natural to themselves and work for them, which is why many people have many different binds. The only important decisions on what to use in PVP is what the player's knowledge is, which is part of the game and experience of Darkfall.

 

So there is no solution? We're fucked?
The biggest pitfall is that most new players quit before they even attempt PvP (which is arguably the games best asset) for a number of reasons. Realizing they need to setup a complex system of hotkeys is one of them.

I feel like we are talking in circles. Having a good default as an example/template will help people choose binds that are natural to themselves.