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Destroyers, and the farming disadvantage.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by SirJames, Jun 29, 2020.

  1. SirJames

    SirJames Goblin Scout

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    Hello everyone,


    I believe the cost of becoming a destroyer/Magekiller should be either:

    a) removed
    or
    b) give a damage bonus while performing PvE as well as PvP


    My reasoning is simple, as a destroyer/magekiller/indestructible player I am lacking debuffs which would enhance my damage in PvE. This prevents me from effectively soloing very hard level mobs. I do not believe I should be forced to pay 20k gold every time I want to PvE. Furthermore, I don't believe a gold sink should be added for switching from PvE to PvP. It's about as effective as other MMORPG's where you must pay money to reset your stats to "re-spec", however, in those other MMORPG's classes can effectively PvE and PvP without needing a second character or respeccing.

    Lastly, this would be such an easy change to accomplish. I'm no coder, but I'm sure changing the value of going magekiller/destroyer/indestructible would be an easy 10,000 to 0 number change. Adding damage to PvE monsters may be a more difficult task as well as prevent balancing issues.

    Thank-you.


    Edit: I'd also like to mention while I've posted:

    Can the lootbag equipped in your paperdoll open with your normal backpack when the hotkey for the backpack is pressed?

    Thanks again!
     
    #1 SirJames, Jun 29, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2020
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  2. onslaught

    onslaught Black Knight
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    All weapons should have had a "Vs. Players" and "Vs. Monsters" damage on them and then this should have been auto-adjusted to slightly higher values if need to be to balance it for destroyers.
     
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  3. SirJames

    SirJames Goblin Scout

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    I like where your head is at, however this would present serious balance issues.

    Next thing you know everyone is going pveing as destroyers with one mage because desteoyers receiving damage buffs.

    However, i do believe there is a way to balance it in this fashion... but adding flat damage would not serve effective.

    But alas, this is not my area of expertise. Thats for the devs to handle. I believe this issue is worth looking into. If i were to throw a shot in the dark, i would say remove the added damage if a pve monster has any debuffs.

    Thanks for your reply
     
  4. Smile

    Smile Skeleton Archer

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    At the same time I think destros have advantage when it comes to mobs wielding a staff? Not sure though. When it comes to high end mobs - what about elemental bows with elemental arrows? Are they not good for farming?
     
  5. MortimerSkullcrusher

    MortimerSkullcrusher Goblin Warrior
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    Sadly you're missing the point or maybe didn't read OP thoroughly.

    Mages debuff, which is 6 dmg difference to the front or 8 to the back in elemental damage.

    Yes, the destros can use elemental weapons, arrows or a combination of those to go around resistances but have no way to lower the mobs resistances. ( other than melee resistances with GA power attack and now Polearm power attack )

    There are Some mobs ( not very many mind you ) that do hold a staff while casting and destroyer activates on those so its a much easier spawn as a destro than mage to clear. I do agree with the general point though, should be looked into.

    Either have all mobs take a staff out to cast, add the bonus automatically when they cast or allow a destro to debuff ranged damage - which is what great axe power attack Used to do, before you nerfed it by introducing arrow protection and forgetting or purposefuly not adding arrow prot to the GA powerattack debuff.
     
  6. Ryco Stormeye

    Ryco Stormeye Deadeye

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    I get that destros find it harder to farm.

    1). They don't have access to the mage debuffs which with a transmuted bow and magic arrow will add +5/+6 damage to both ticks of damage. They dont even have access to Guiding Wind which lowers Arrow damage protection for regular bows.
    2). They have to have 0 arrow encumberance to get the most from their bow which stops from them wearing full heavy armour. This reduction in protection is a major disadvantage if they get jumped when pveing.
     
  7. Frog

    Frog Black Knight
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    would be great to give destros pve tools: interrupts, taunts, etc
     
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  8. MortimerSkullcrusher

    MortimerSkullcrusher Goblin Warrior
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    In b4 someone mentions rend.. its not good enough, and it only works for one protection.
     
  9. Frog

    Frog Black Knight
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    1h axe power attack debuffs all physical protections !
     
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  10. MortimerSkullcrusher

    MortimerSkullcrusher Goblin Warrior
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    Can you post a screenshot? Piercing and arrow protection are separate prots now keep in mind.
     
  11. Frog

    Frog Black Knight
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    yeah good point, i think it's only pierce, bludge and slash.
     
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  12. SirJames

    SirJames Goblin Scout

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    A few players addressed additional points I had forgotten-

    Most notably:

    1. Destroyers must wear light armor for PvEing for maximum damage bonus
    2. Mages can debuff and receive additional damage with elemental bows/arrows

    Elemental bows and arrows are extremely effective at taking down mobs, I can't imagine how great they'd be with debuffs.

    I will test today with a fellow Horde mage and post my results.
     
  13. Volfen

    Volfen Celestial
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    This isn't exactly right. Destroyers can wear light armor for increased damage at range with reduced protections. At the same time, wearing full heavy armor is beneficial for some types of solo PVE and forces a mage to change playstyle to heavy hybrid if they get jumped, or go destro. The 40% melee damage bonus also applies regardless of encumbrance against staff wielding mobs.

    With that said, it's true that at range a solo destroyer is at a disadvantage in PVE, to the point it's normal to take off your armor just like when killing some champions in the final stage, and not being able to use elemental debuffs or undeath is a significant disadvantage.
     
  14. Ford Prefect

    Ford Prefect Frostjarl
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    They have made some changes to help this already. For instance, many mobs that used to be almost immune to arrows now take a lot of arrow damage. There is a lot of stuff that I just farm with fine arrows as a mage because my arrow aim is way better than my bolt aim.
     
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  15. SirJames

    SirJames Goblin Scout

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    Is it not true it would be more effective for a heavy mage to debuff than sitting as destroyer in melee?

    So for range it is most effective for a destroyer to be at range in light armor, and will never have an advantage in melee (while pveing), except in rare cases where a mob holds a staff.
     
  16. Volfen

    Volfen Celestial
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    No, this is not true in melee. The 2-3 best melee protection debuffs in the game by a long shot are weapon skills, not spells, and you can also cast Disease as a destroyer if necessary to take less damage. You would be gaining the ability to use stamina leech/vampiric touch with reduced effectiveness (Encumbrance) in PVE at the expense of not having destroyer/mage killer if there's PVP.
     
  17. SirJames

    SirJames Goblin Scout

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    Very interesting history... they recognized the issue and did the best they could, I can appreciate that.

    I see. But, you will not be seeing me solo very hard mobs in melee haha. You also haven't addressed the fact that mages have the same ability to do so, in melee but also at range. I'd also argue with the right staff their debuffs last far longer.

    So, in short: mages can debuff multiple protections at range, including elemental protections and arrow protections, as well as melee while wearing heavy armor (the same as destroyers). I don't recall a power attack debuffing elemental protections for transmuted farming, which is by and large the most effective form of farming.

    While I appreciate the advice on the game's mechanics, my point still stands. Destroyers will need to switch to mage to solo very hard mobs. We can expound this issue to include the effectiveness if everyone would like, but the evidence is clear in this regard.
     
    #17 SirJames, Jun 30, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2020
  18. Volfen

    Volfen Celestial
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    Very hard mobs vary a lot :p I definitely wouldn't melee minion mobs nowadays, but I would still melee hands of khamset/oathlieges/shadow knights/etc as a destro. Daggers are generally seen as the best melee weapon for PVE with some exceptions, and r60-r70 daggers are often either better than transmutes or good enough that it's preferrable to not transmute them since they can be used in PVP after being worn down. You do bring up a good point that in the cases you do use transmutes, you can't use elemental debuffs as a destroyer. At the same time, in some cases the mobs are already at their "bottom" protections and debuffing them for that element may increase damage by 0-1 damage.

    Do keep in mind I did acknowledge that your DPS is at a disadvantage at range as a solo destroyer, and due to the nature of the specs it doesn't give any actual PVE benefit against non staff wielders compared to heavy hybrid.
     
  19. SirJames

    SirJames Goblin Scout

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    This is another issue i've had, i'm glad you brought it up.

    Perhaps another thread should be created for the reclassification of mobs.

    Baradron would top the list as "ultra-mega-annoying hard", while selentine golem could be classified as "youtube viewing".
     
  20. Sorrow Avaritia

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    A lot of things can be farmed with daggers, which is easier in heavy gear, as far as I remember from farming debuffs are kinda pointless solo, they only added like 10% of your damage and run out pretty fast, so you have to hit like 10 times to make the debuff worth it then they run out almost straight away after, I never use to bother debuffing mobs when farming.

    There are also mobs that you would farm with normal bows, all a destro would have to do is swap a fp chest for a bone chest and be fine. There is also a lot less statting required when farming with a bow than with magic.

    You just need to find the right mobs to farm.