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Discussion: Darkfall: Rise of Agon - A Pivotal Moment

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by MWTaylor, Jul 25, 2017.

  1. Obeesho

    Obeesho Black Knight
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    You can not have a vision based on consensus.

    You need a vision based on conviction.

    If you want to make the game more casual friendly you can have faster gains, reduce the number of skills you have to buy and/or reduce the cost. (me and other guys I know haven't even bought the teleport anchor skill due to the rareness of runestones and the 5k cost of the skill!)

    I don't mind a game where I can just hang out and make a little progress day to day, but would be happy to trade that for a larger population.

    I am sorry I don't have more answers, but it's really pretty complicated. How to make a version of this game that makes people want to either:

    * Make it their default online hangout all day time permitting.

    * Make it their go to quick gaming fix.

    One or the other would be a clear starting point for an idea. Both is a TALL order.

    God speed and good luck.
     
    #241 Obeesho, Jul 25, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2017
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  2. nightblighter

    nightblighter Akathar
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    Which one is it? Is there a gold shortage or is there inflation?
     
  3. Khazgol

    Khazgol Deadeye
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    The idea was that it was a great system for getting people away from banks and working together. Promoting cooperation and restraint without the implementation of hard mechanics. Would love to see this type of thing here. The scaling on the lower end spawns as is does the trick, but it's just a visual mess. I liked the difficulty of the monster scaling, not just in numbers.
     
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  4. DarkGhost25

    DarkGhost25 Black Knight
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    Solid ideas for sure. I like the idea of all monsters being able to drop something cool, a little burst of excitement. I have been pitching a similar idea for all of UW and RoA but I really have to repeat it, please add a small chance for any monster to have an explosion of loot. This could be as simple as a 5x to 100x loot multiplier with a chance for rare items in the mix. Nothing will ever be more exciting than that amazement you get when looting a really, really awesome grave that is way better than normal. This is amazing for retention and will make people happy to farm in hopes of that awesome moment. Add in an awesome sound effect!
     
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  5. Not_Primetime

    Not_Primetime Infernal
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    Wow your life must suck if that is your idea of a life accomplishment. SAD!
     
  6. Scrubby Bear

    Scrubby Bear Eodrin
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    Its both.
    Its tedious and slow to farm gold outside of the highest mobs that only zergs and high end players get.
    Once you get that gold, its uses are limited as they have always been in DFO, especially once you finish your grind.
    The removal of items off NPC vendors removed some gold sinks from the game.
    When players trade between each other, that gold doesn't leave the economy. It just changes hands and keeps building up.
    The result is that gold is inflating. Its slower than DFO because of mob loot being nerfed to shit is all.
    The game needs more ways in and more ways out for gold. Right now its too slow in to feel rewarding at all and not enough ways out to keep inflation from happening even with nerfed to shit gold.
     
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  7. aaraym

    aaraym Undead Dwarf
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    The problem is not everyone enjoys trading. A need to trade in the current system if part of the problem for many players I think.

    Poll casual players and ask if they trade much AND if it is something that is positive for the game.

    I never enjoyed trading in Darkfall and rarely ever do it. If there was an option to do it at any bank in the game maybe that would change....not sure. But the current system is just not workable for casual or newer players imo.
    --- Post updated ---
    One thing I think everyone could agree on and could easily get addressed soon is the melee grind could be greatly reduced. Also, why does rest require to be leveled? Rage?

    Food grind is another issue imo.
     
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  8. Sero

    Sero Menhir Sentinal
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    Marketplace.

    Not sure why anyone would argue against this.
     
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  9. MrDDT

    MrDDT Goblin Scout

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    You need to have objectives for vets(high skill players) and mid level players (mid skill or newer players) and low level (grandma skill players and super newbs)
    Think how those players will be able to play the game and LEARN to be better. The key word is learning to be better. 80% of the PVP fight is the person at the keyboards skill. 20% is gear and skills of the toon itself.

    Just think 1/2 of the server will never be able to kill the other 1/2 of the server solo. This is a fact, not opinion. Because 80% of the game is skill of the player. How do you get those 1/2 of server to be able to feel like they can be the top 1/2 of the server? How are they going to learn the game?
    New to the game players whether they come from a FPS game or WOW MMO need to learn to play Darkfall. Many never even heard of the game and it is perfect for them. They want skillful combat. You guys are focusing on the grind of the game, which is not what most people have a problem with anymore. They feel that way because they FEEL that toon level is soooo important. What is important is duals, and learning to play the game.
    You remove the gear from the game and you will see a huge lack of drive for people to play. You need to foster VETS to want to play with other vets, through gear, or rep, or fame or whatever it is to encourage them to play vs each other.
    Where is a ranking system, why can't we have cool looking armor that shows (#1 PVPER RIGHT HERE) tons of vets would fight for that, they will work their toons for that, and they would grind out gear for that. But you are catering to about 5% of the people in Darkfall. You need more people to stay in the game for more than a week to figure out HEY I love this game! But if they can't figure out how to play, they get smoked by people 100x better than them. They are going to feel its either their toon, gear, or they suck. All 3 choices they quit soon after or maybe a small % will stick it out to be good.

    I've said this 100s of times before and I will keep saying it. You need to protect the newbie style of players so they can learn to love the game and learn to play it, so they will be vets one day. If you hulk smash new players, they will not stay in the game long. It's not the grind (you cut out like 60% of the grind already), its the gear grind (people need something to work for and amass for wealth), it's the lack of new players sticking it out longer than a week.

    You have to remember, Darkfall is NOTHING like other MMO's, the interface is very hard to learn and understand compared to other MMO's, its not like a FPShooter, its not like WOW MMO. Its a mix of tons of styles and its own. Give people time to love the game, protect them.
    --- Post updated ---
    I agree with this, and I do a TON of trading. But I also don't think it really is the topic at hand.
     
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  10. Knar

    Knar Competition Winner
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    This sounds great if it's done correctly.

    One of the issues would be if you made it TOO casual, to the point where you never get the adrenaline rush because you have nothing to lose. That is a fine line to walk.

    If gear was made super easy to get, you could give players something to lose other than stat gear such as special rare cosmetic items. You could use the existing mob-dropped armors to act as ultra rare "re-skins" of some existing armor pieces, or something like that.
     
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  11. Lord Zanuul

    Lord Zanuul Spellgazer
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    I don't believe in consensus ... you need 1 strong leader with a vision for the project if that vision is not working you remove them and get another that can convince you they have the correct vision. its a very arduous process of hearing pitches and lots of research and presentation to be seen .. but that's how creative process gets to its completion in a timely manner .. can you do it by Council .. sure .. going to take a very long time and going to be full of problems from lack of confidence in decisions which will affect overall team moral.

    I will give you one small example ... instead of making a post saying hey this is what we are thinking of doing, let us know your thoughts ... someone could have already created a base decision and said we are going to change x y z .. let's figure out what is the cause and effect variables that will happen once we undertake this ... data comes back and you move forward ...

    the bottom line is you cannot make everyone happy .. and if you try to you will make no one happy .. trust me I know .. been down that road
     
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  12. Sero

    Sero Menhir Sentinal
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    It is though. It makes the world smaller, and reduces the tedium of having to travel to trade. Also makes materials and stuff more accessible.
     
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    #252 Sero, Jul 26, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2017
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  13. Egrin

    Egrin Goblin Shaman

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    Loving this direction. Just please try to start with this quickly, the server feels so dead right now.
     
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  14. BlueOreo

    BlueOreo Goblin Scout

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    This sounds very exciting. As an old DF1 player that is just returning, I can tell you that even with the enhanced skill gains (thank the Lord, good job on that!) the spell/magic grind is still substantial. I realize how ridiculous this probably sounds to any of us with long enough memories to remember how many thousands of hours went into a complete character in DF1, but nevertheless, I think the problem remains. The root of it is in the fact that a totally open magic system means you are forced to grind all the schools in order to take all the best abilities from each school.

    I am going to pair that observation with a discussion that I had with a few clan mates last night. We were trying to counsel another returning player on the merits of playing a Destroyer vs. a Mage. The primary benefit and attraction of going Destroyer for this player is that he will have to grind less and can PvP faster (sooner). The large hitch though is that when asked the question, "Given two characters of perfectly equal skill and level, one being a mage and one being a destroyer, which would normally win?" We all agreed that the mage should take the majority of fights. That makes him want to go through the painful, extended grind of magic.

    And finally, an oft made observation is that the game has too many blinding effects/abilities/spells, etc., which can often make PvP frustrating.

    To put this succinctly, I think you can solve these three problems:
    1. Competent mages must take the best abilities from each school, requiring a prolonged grind to raise all the schools;
    2. Melee-oriented roles are still under powered when put up against comparably skilled and leveled mages;
    3. There are too many blinding effects/spells accessible to a fully leveled mage with all the schools;
    By introducing mutually exclusive magic schools. This would mean that a Fire mage could not also have Water magic or that a Necromancer could not also have Arcane magic, etc., and so on and so forth. The primary effects of this are:
    1. A single mage 'class' is much easier to level than it is today, because as you select schools, you limit your overall need to grind;
    2. Mages lose access to all spells, all abilities, directly reducing their utility, and in theory, indirectly 'nerfing' them;
    3. Melee-oriented roles are brought into closer so-called 'power' with their mage counter parts.
    Overall, I think this would breed diversity in PvP and the game overall. It also aligns with the original designs of DF1. You could treat it much as Destroyer is treated today, whereby schools can be toggled off/on through a fee and use of a vendor... say, every 24 hours.

    Of course, I am sure that many veterans will dislike this idea, as it takes away the mage super-soldier, all-ability play style with which everyone is comfortable.
     
  15. kilrain

    kilrain Shadow Knight
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    The topic of this thread is not a thought, it is happening. This weekend we will begin telling you how we are going to accomplish this and allow discussions to help figure out cause and effect.

    Do not confuse this with letting the player base make all of the decisions. It is happening.
     
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  16. Animal

    Animal Eodrin
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    @BlueOreo You should probably play the game, rather than conjecture on existing balance. :)

    Two players of equal skill - Mage v Destroyer - will result in a destroyer win nearly every time(Unless we're talking about two equally bad players, such that their lack of aim is the variable that determines the outcome). The results can be shown empirically.
     
  17. Sero

    Sero Menhir Sentinal
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    Theres no classes in Darkfall, these are class problems. I don't know what a "mage" is, All i know is the 1 class in Darkfall, which I like to refer to as the "Demi-God".

    This games balance is perfect, as in, literally everyone can do everything everyone else can.

    PERFECT. BALANCE.

    Please get with the program already.

    Sounds like some abilities could be fine tuned to add some more variance in the choices though.

    Also, theres 3 whole blinds, 1 of which is pretty situational.
     
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    #257 Sero, Jul 26, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2017
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  18. Calebreth

    Calebreth Goblin Scout

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    As I said it before on discord. Make the starter quests and tasks reward the nectar of the gods start a new players attributes at 50 once they have completed all of the tasks and quests. Starting out with such a deficit is a huge downfall for a new players. Getting killed with no chance of even competing damage wise is devastating to the ego. If a new player has a chance to get at least 50 attributes then by the time they are done with the new player experience (quest/task line) they can actually go out and farm/kill stuff, making them feel more powerful. Either that or just increase the amount of xp, or how fast the grind to level skills/attributes is.

    Decrease all the grind pretty much; skills, crafting, spells, attributes. Put everyone on an equal playing field. At least give them the idea that they are equal.
     
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  19. MisterTea

    MisterTea Infernal
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    l0l
     
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  20. Sero

    Sero Menhir Sentinal
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    It's always been equal, I can't wait for all the "muh grind" QQers to get dookied on though.
     
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