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Discussion: Darkfall: Rise of Agon - A Pivotal Moment

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by MWTaylor, Jul 25, 2017.

  1. Epik Wang

    Epik Wang Skeleton Archer
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    I had to edit this to add my reasons.

    - Summon people to you / along with increase runestone drops - There are so many times where a buddy is in alfar lands and I am across the map and just dont feel like making the 40+ min run to meet up with him. This will allow people to enjoy the game at a much faster rate together.

    - I liked, fix skinning where you get atleast 1 of what it gives you every time. - This just makes sense, you farm for mats, this will allow newer players to build a bank faster.

    - Gear needs to be cheaper. - I already saw this touched on so yeah gearing up to go back out and bang shouldnt be as much of a bitch as it is.

    - add a option to que up for 1v1s, 2v2, etc with a ranking system. - This would just be amazing and bring a shit load of people to the game.

    - Its super boring just riding from, for example one end of yessam to another, make that less boring. - Even with the portal system its still boring.

    - Housing system sucks, allow more people to own a home. - After realizing resource islands were in the game with out it being said. I just gave up on the thought of gettin a house.

    - Get rid of the stupid ambient noise and make it so im not just listening to the crickets outside. - I feel like you can do much better at putting some sounds or music in so its fitting for the game.

    - Villages should be controlled safe zones until timers pop for them to be retaken, and timers reduced - This might need to be touched on but the idea is for example say my alliance lives on Niff, but we capture a village on ruby. This would allow us to go down there and bang or farm during the time we owned the village.
     
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    #481 Epik Wang, Jul 28, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2017
  2. Lordpete

    Lordpete Goblin Shaman
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    - Get rid of the stupid ambient noise and make it so im not just listening to the crickets outside. - I feel like you can do much better at putting some sounds or music in so its fitting for the game.

    Or just turn off music, personally i like the music, the big sound problems are from mobs sounding the same and every other sound seemingly sounding like something breaking.
     
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  3. Epik Wang

    Epik Wang Skeleton Archer
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    I would also like to add that when you down a player you should be able to inspect them. This will allow you to choose if you want to gank them or not, they might have nothing good on them.


    I fucking deleted my last post so i have to write this again. I have the music off, I feel like it is very stale and deff needs work.
     
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  4. axilmar

    axilmar Goblin Warrior
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    Turning the game around is not as hard as it sounds. I hope the developers are listening, because as an ex darkfall developer I've been there and have read/heard these things a thousand times over.

    Here is what is needed to be done to make Darkfall a success:

    1. Scale everything related to power on a logarithmic curve.

    Everything in the game related to power should scale on a logarithmic curve, preferrably like this:

    [​IMG]
    • character stats: increments start big, becoming smaller and smaller as the stats are increased.
    • skill level: increments start big, becoming smaller and smaller as the levels are increased.
    • gear stats: power gaps becoming smaller and smaller as the gear level increases.
    • item rarity: first tier materials should be found everywhere, as the tier of materials goes, up their rarity should be roughly doubled. Top rarity materials (theyril) should be found only in a few places in the game (1 place only, in my book).
    • durability loss: if durability is 100%, its loss should be small. As durability goes down, its loss should be greater and greater.
    A completely new character shall be able to reach 25% of all stats in a few hours of playing, 50% of all stats in a few weeks of playing, 75% if all stats in a few months, and 100% of all stats in a few years (yes, years. If you want to max out on everything, you have to dedicate yourself to the game).

    2. Scale everything related to difficulty according to distance from starting cities.

    Everything in the game related to difficulty should be scaled by distance from starting cities:
    1. monsters: the more difficult a monster is to kill, the greater its distance from the starting cities it should be.
    2. materials: the more rare/valuable a material is, the greater its distance from the starting cities it should be.
    3. Enhance the new player experience.
    1. make player protection depend on distance from starting cities and xp level, not on a timer (don't forget the above curve!).
    2. guide players to every possible game activity through the quest system; organize quests from easiest to hardest; suggest quests based on difficulty order, as one quest finishes, the next quest of equal or bigger difficulty is suggested.
    3. give each new player a hut (a small house) by default to live in near the starting cities. This hut will have a bank and room for a very few decorations. When a player gets a normal house, they will lose the hut.
    4. give to the players, through early quests, a baseline of skills that all players should have: begone, explosion, stormblast, etc.
    5. make transfers automatic, unless the player chooses to handle transfers themselves.
    6. fix gui glitches.
    7. provide all the necessary information in the map.
    8. provide enough gear to newbies that is character-bound so as that they cannot lose it, only destroy it. This gear will not be tranferrable to other characters or be found anywhere in the game. Let it be good gear, i.e. with high durability, in order to allow newbies to take many many hits, until they die.
    9. provide reasonable default controls.
    4. Remove downtime.

    A lot of activities in the game go live based on timers. That's not very good: when a player logs in, they shall not have to wait to participate in a specific activity. All activities should be available all the time.

    This also includes the ability to travel, since that is also an activity.

    The above mean essentially the following:
    • more portals. Put portals in almost every tile, except those tiles that contain special activities/monsters/items. Let players minimize travel time by using portals. The gold cost for using portals shall only depend on portal distance.
    • Minimize runestone usage (or whatever they are called these days). Players should not be allowed to form a big private travel network.
    • always respawn to the nearest bindstone after you die. The penalty for dying is getting looted, there is no need to further punish players by having them respawn to the other side of the map. Make recalling to house/bound stone/starting city optional.
    • reduce mob spawn timers. All mob spawns should have, at most, 1 minute respawn timer. To counter this, make mobs harder with scaled loot up each time they are beaten by players.
    • reduce resource node fill timers. All resource nodes should have, at most, 1 minute cool down. To counter this, scale the resource node failure with the activity on the node: the higher the times a node is emptied, the higher the failure rate.
    • minimize crafting time. As the crafting skills goes up, the crafting times should become smaller. When you are a top crafter, crafting time should be almost zero.
    • allow players to cross check recipes at their bank: when you open an inventory, you should have the ability to check what ingredients you are missing for crafting an item.
    • put in crafting queues: allow the player to craft multiple items at a time, without intervention.
    • make sieges instant; let groups of players siege holdings when they wish. I don't know the exact format of the current siege mechanics, but any downtime is not acceptable in my book. Make siege rewards level up with sieging difficulty.
    • in the same line of thinking, make villages and sea towers also always available to capture, and scale the loot according to difficulty, i.e. how many contentants participated in the activity. I.e. if one goes alone to capture a village, they would get a very small amount of loot and a very small time window to own the village. If, on the other hand, there are lots of enemies that want to capture a village, the winner shall get increased loot/increased ownership village time.
    • remove the time-based difficulty. I.e. difficulty should be based on difference of power, not on time availability. I.e. creating an armor of lower tier should take the same amount of time for a higher tier, given the appropriate tools/weapons.
    • make the time to gear up a lot less that what it is now.
    • reduce the amount of materials items need.
    • move skinnable items to the grave, and make skinning give extra rare items randomly.
    • allow players to save bags as templates, then recreate those bags from the templates from the bank.
    • increase bank space. Let players rent extra bank space using gold.
    5. Motivate players to have varied character builds.

    Please do not add classes in this game. One great feature of this game is its openess, i.e. to be whatever one wants, depending on situation.

    What should be added are tradeoffs:
    1. reward pure builds. I.e. if one chooses to raise/use related skills only, let them raise them faster, make them have benefits (for example, reduced cooldowns) in battle.
    2. put in a skill cap. Sorry, but this is necessary.
    3. make the skill cap be raisable, on a logarithmic curve as described above: by completing skills in a specific school, you get a cap boost, which is made smaller and smaller each time you boost the cap.
    4. allow the players to move skill points from one skill to the other, with an in-game cost. The skills shall be related, i.e. no crafting to combat skill transfers are allowed.
    5. Remove the relationship between schools and sub-skills; i.e. let the player choose to raise each skill independently of the others.
    6. balance melee/archery against magic.
    6. Fix Alignment/bring back Racial Wars

    Any content Darkfall can potentially have, it should have. There is no time to remove meaningful content, only to improve it.
    1. Put back Racial Wars. Let alignment be expressed in terms of clan & race actions. I.e. make players red if they go against their clan, or/and against their race.
    2. Let red players be able to do anything blue players can do.
    3. Reward blue players for killing red players inside lawful areas.
    4. Punish red players by hitting them by guard towers, by minimizing the durability of their items when they enter a lawful area, and by removing player protection on them.
    5. Don't use alignment to protect newbies. Let the player protection do that.
    7. Fix Conquest/Holdings/Territory Control

    Assuming RoA wants a semi-arena/semi-conquest type of rpg game, the following changes are suggested:
    1. upkeep cost for holdings.
    2. instant sieging (more info above, on reducing downtime).
    3. break sieges into multiple steps, and let each step be done every 24 hours: allow players to build siege control points in the forms of altars and buildings and other resources that increase the protection of a holding. These resources must be destroyed as well in order for a holding to be considered captured. Tie the cost of each resource to the distance from the holding. Once the control point is built, members of the owner clan would get an increased loot capability at that specific area around the control point.
    4. increase loot around holdings depending on if clan also owns nearby holdings. Motivate clans to create large continous areas, motivate clans to disprupt the large continuous areas of opposing clans.
     
  5. EarthMother

    EarthMother Earth Elemental
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    No u stop
     
  6. Epik Wang

    Epik Wang Skeleton Archer
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    you kind of lost me at ex darkfall dev :) So you were part of the reason the game failed so many times?
     
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  7. Lord Zanuul

    Lord Zanuul Spellgazer
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    Really wasn't his fault he fought very hard to become the dev for UW towards the end but his hands were tied by upper management he was pretty much the one keeping it up making lots of updates he had two assistants devs ... I would be talking to him and it would be 3 a.m. his time and he would stay up and try to work through these problems I have nothing but respect and I try to give him as much credit as I can I know what it's like to work very hard on something and have your hands tied by others
     
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  8. MULQ

    MULQ Goblin Warrior

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    You can probably make the game healthier by removing grind and tedium, but it will never truly be popular unless you make the actual combat easier or at least simpler.

    There is a reason why the popular games don't have a hundred spells and skills and hotkeys. Especially if they also have FPS mechanics.
     
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  9. Sero

    Sero Gnoll Vilegaunt
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    Weren't we suppose to already have this? Literally everything needs to scale like this. Easy to get to 75 - hard to get to 100, and 75-100 being a very small difference (like 2 damage).
    For gods sake yes.
    The huts I feel would be a bit much. What is wrong with our current banking system? Just leave it as is, but add in the safer areas.

    For the love of god please fix the damn map, it is so barren, a million times yes. Current map provides nothing but a direction.

    Also: Love the idea of giving noobs a noob set of armor, perhaps being some type of tutorial quest line. Personally I think we should do away with anything below plate/studded sets, and work our way up from there, and give the player a starter plate set and studded set for a little hand holding, as well as walking them through the means of creating their own.
    Hi how are you, where have you been my whole life?
    A skill cap is not necessary if you add in specializations similar to destroyer that warrants trade offs. Like you said, everything should be open, and optional to switch inbetween.
    Racial wars were kind of pointless though, as everyone would just create a clan where anyone could join, in order for ARACs to work, their would need to be incentive. But yes more blue things need to be added.
    Yup. Agree fully. More incentives to own holdings, which I was hoping their territory towers would provide, add in some type of conquest system that provides bonuses for holding certain things, past the mob spawns. Depth is key. If there is multiple layers to the game, it will hold more peoples attention for longer.
     
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  10. Melkrow

    Melkrow Goblin Warrior
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    Hmm, if your goal is to grow the playerbase, NONE OF THIS MATTERS, it will not change anything at all when game is dead. RoA made the biggest mistake before it even launched, and I don't know if you actually have enough time to fix it anymore. You need to realize that this is 2017, and pay+subscription model is just way too high of an entry barrier for new blood to come into the game. ESPECIALLY a game like Darkfall, with it's history and reputation of being a gankfest, people do not want spend money to give it a shot. Fuck they would be super reluctant to give it a shot even if you paid them instead.

    Go the Mortal Online route, free to play, 0 entry barrier, but with limitations (stat/skill cap). Damn that game is so shit but it's still running largely thanks to their monetization model. If you guys actually had resources/manpower/talent to push out microtransactions: skill skin, weapon skins, armor skins, mount skins etc, similar to Path of Exile, and sell them in your cash shop you would be rolling in so much money compared to this archaic subscription model.

    Gameplay, grind, economy, balance etc, while it matters to retain the playerbase that is already invested into the game (and it's very important that you do), it will not bring in new players. Obviously you can already see this at work, you will keep bleeding old players, it's just the nature of the game, but you will attract next to 0 new players. Until you fix that, don't waste your time fixing anything else.

    TL;DR Entry barrier for new players is too high. You keep bleeding old players and not gaining any new players. Game will die unless you fix it. Classic subscription model was your biggest mistake.
     
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  11. Mycke

    Mycke Obsidian Golem

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    Eve is the most popular hardcore MMO and it has a sub so i dont agree. Its the game not the subscription.
     
  12. pdub87

    pdub87 New Member

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    i used to play original DF. Haven't played ROA more than 2 hours, but nonetheless am paying a sub to support the game in hopes you guys wont fuck this up royally and it sticks around a while.

    Times have changed, gaming has changed. The core of the game is the PVP. That's what people want to do. HOWEVER, Gamers have the attention span of a goldfish, and it takes absolutely forever to reach a point where your character is competitive, you're in a clan, and you can actually participate and experience those best aspects of the game.The new player experience fails in this regard because it does not IMMEDIATELY introduce players to the best aspects of the game. You need to hook new players RIGHT AWAY. Show them all of the best aspects of the game in a controlled environment just for new players.

    In shadowbane, there was a newbie island. Where players could play around with their character in a PvE environment until they get used to the game mechanics, their skills, etc. After a certain level you were more or less kicked off the newbie island and thrown into the real game.

    Darkfall needs some kind of a more encompassing new player experience, where new players can learn how to play, but ALSO where new characters can experience some of those best aspects of the game. PVP, sieges, boats, etc. Make a new player experience and within an hour or two SHOW them the best parts of the game. Make a newbie battlegrounds or siege area (like DAOC battlegrounds or something). Give new players the taste of some pvp, in a controlled environment, only with other newbies, if they desire to PVP. Perhaps newbie island is opt-in PVP or something. I don't know. Point being, you need to hook new players right away, let them experience the best parts of the game within an hour or two. Most people are not willing to grind full-time for months just in order to experience the best parts of the game at a competitive level. They don't want to run across a barren empty landscape for half an hour to get to the action or meet up with a friend. No one wants to do that. Most new players to darkfall probably quit the game before they ever get to experience the best parts.

    The whole game design (large open world mmo, free loot, territorial clan gameplay, etc) is kind of outdated at this point. It needs to be severely streamlined. Get rid of the downtime. In it's current state, this game would be more fun if it was fast paced battlegrounds, or competitive arena play. Instead of the open world gameplay that is hindered with downtime.

    I absolutely love PVP games with free loot. I just want to get that out there. It adds that element of risk and makes gameplay feel dangerous and high stakes. HOWEVER... no one wants to grind loot bags just so they can get back into the game and play. It's just another aspect of the outdated large scale open world mmo game mechanics. I don't know what to do about it, but when I die in a game the last thing I want to do is to have to go grind out a loot bag just so i can get back into the game again.

    I think you guys have made lots of amazing changes so far. But i think some aspects of the game are just outdated. The game needs less downtime and more ways to play. In H1Z1, they added this battle royale mode. It was a complete pivot from the original vision of the game, and now it is basically the only game mode that people are playing in H1Z1 - it brought new life into the game. Darkfall needs some severe modernization and reworking in order to attract new players and retain them. Without new player retention this game will not survive. The only people playing this game are old darkfall nerds. Get rid of the outdated business model, make it free to play, etc.

    TLDR:
    - new player island experience - hook new players within a few hours. show them the best aspects of the game in a controlled environment.
    - eliminate downtime, allow players to meet up with friends easily
    - add new game modes / PVP battlegrounds / competitive arena play / etc
    - allow players to accomplish something meaningful in a short play session. quick battlegrounds, daily quests, anything. I don't have 8 hours to dedicate to a session of DF anymore.
     
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  13. Sero

    Sero Gnoll Vilegaunt
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    Hi frand. Keep posting. :^)
     
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  14. Melkrow

    Melkrow Goblin Warrior
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    EVE has 14-day trial, which is 0 entry barrier. Furthermore EVE has established following and was released when subscription was pretty much the only option.
     
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  15. BertHulka

    BertHulka New Member
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    A couple of simple requests that will not necessarily "save the game" but may change the impression and experience of new players.

    1. Clean up the syntax and grammar. I could tolerate it when the game was run by Euros but there is no excuse now. For instance a sack is made of cloth and is the item you put in the "loot bag" space on the paper doll but a bag is made of leather and looks like a backpack.

    2. Capitalize proper nouns. Many hamlets/villages/cities names are not capitalized.

    3. Put an icon over the heads of quest NPCs both when they have a quest and a different icon when the quest is complete.

    4. Fix those doors on the Dwarf NPC cities so you take a mount through them. (Ymir's Tear and Gulgramir come to mind).

    I know these aren't major game saving changes but I can't imagine they would be difficult to implement and show a greater attention to detail and professionalism that one expects from a great game.
     
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  16. ZeuZ

    ZeuZ Crypt Guard

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    They need to just ramp up the skill gains to like 500% across the board to get people to log in and at the very least start playing. As of now zero point to play and wait to see what they do. With a fun skill gain like that at least the casuals have something they can do in the meantime lol
     
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  17. Mycke

    Mycke Obsidian Golem

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    I see nothing wrong with a trial, as long as they make sure the game is ready for noobs first.
     
  18. Down Syndrome

    Down Syndrome Fire Elemental
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    Enough with this. Ramp up skill gains and start the actual discussions. Knowing things are going to change I have less desire then ever to log in and grind it out.
     
  19. TwistedEndz

    TwistedEndz Goblin Scout
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    have more fishing boats and fishing loots like unholy wars / nerf the damn enchanting it's RETARDED
    have a crafting station to destroy items with chance to get mats back
     
  20. Jezvin

    Jezvin New Member
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    Darkfall as a whole has always failed to counter the fundamental attrition problem of full loot PvP. this clearly needs explaining why everyone always quits darkfall.

    First, the fundamental attrition problem of full loot PvP in an MMO is that the players who lose need to spend more time to (regear, rebuild, ext) and the regear time/value investment is necessary for the significance of full loot for the winners.


    1. The grind:
    A grind is necessary for an MMO and darkfall should have one.

    What it should be: The grind should get players outside of the cities to be victims for pvp. And it should at all times help alleviate regearing time for the players that are grinding. Efficient grinding should gain lots of skill and gain lots of resources.

    In darkfall: The grind is expensive, at the beginning of the game most all of your resources are going towards grinding. Getting ganked while grinding is a huge setback with less knowledgeable players forced to build up money or farm regs to once again simply grind. This is the whole core problem with darkfall’s grind, it forces players to regear for PvE and grinding not PvP. You have a grind within a grind. You also have meditation and skill books which both require you to economic grind to get access too.

    This failure is also why a lot of lower play time but good players are able to play comfortably and tell people to just go out and pvp right at the start. Going out and PvPing allows you to farm the people who are farming to grind so you skip the whole exponential grind experience and are just left with the normal darkfall skill grind which isn’t so bad.


    2. High player skill PvP adds to attrition.

    Understanding this is a must. You can’t change darkfall’s PvP it’s why people play the damn game. But you need to be realistic in that the shitty players are gonna fucking quit because they don’t get gear, they get farmed getting gear, and every time the bottom cuts out a new bottom is there ready to never win again until they quit.

    This puts extra pressure on the lower play time players, they more often than not need to spend more time to regear, which cuts into their already limited play time and forces people who might actually want to play darkfall to stop playing because they simply don’t have the time to keep up.

    What it should be: This pretty much is darkfall, but it has such a large impact on attrition that every other system in darkfall should bend over backwards to make sure they are not adding to the problem that this causes. Also there should be systems like the meditation system that help players regear for PvP instead of just grinding for them.


    3. Regearing time:

    What it should be: Regearing time needs to have significance, PvP gear(ships, warhualks, items everything included) should be a step above other gear and have a slightly noticeable impact if you are using it and be harder to obtain. It needs to be destroyed in some manner to not break the economy. Getting a kill from someone geared for PvP should be rewarding and boost your ability to regear.

    In darkfall:(I’m not sure what the ROA meta is) Darkfall was decent with regearing, shitty PvP sets like bone and a blackbolt were a problem but getting up to dragon and infernal with full enchanted gear was a fairly significant amount of work. Ships and warhualks along with cities on the other hand have always been a bit too expensive and since they are means of bad players experiencing the game it was a horrible design choice.

    Gear being destroyed was an issue in darkfall, most gear was broken through PvE and not PvP. Where you again would bring out more valuable gear to PvE (higher durability weapons/armor) than you would actually PvPing.


    Suggestions:

    1.The grind: Add new weapons/armor and regs.(or enchantments instead of weapons). These weapons and armor will do 2-3x more damage to mobs, the staff will also allow you to cast all spells with a new reg gold dust that you craft with pure gold at a crazy good rate like 1g for 10-100 regs. Bow will shoot magic arrows that cost nothing. They will all cost basic processed mats. You can also add a higher tier for harder mobs at low mastery level that reflect the same process, but higher base damage. Balance the skill up rate vs damage of everything.

    2. Skill: Add visuals and sounds to higher skill things like bunny hopping or landing back hits. Make the screen glow or something if your velocity is higher than normal. Just go nuts make people go super saiyan if they are moving faster than mounts. The goal is to make it so there is visual indicators that you are doing something special so new or inexperienced players will realise their mad skills.

    3. Re-balance loot tables to make mobs drop most of the stuff you need. From basic ore and timber to gold and regs. More or less make gathering skills somewhat redundant, maybe give gathering a chance to get the high demand enchant or high rank weapon mats depending on where you are gathering. But gathering in darkfall is pretty basic bull shit. The goal is to get people out farming mobs where the reward for the PvPers on killing the players is the loot that they earn while farming not the regs they bring out to farm with.

    Nerf durability across the board on everything weapons should break after 2-3 pvp battles, Add an enchantment that hurts damage/defense vs players but massively increases durability.

    4. Change meditation points to instead of leveling skills magically charge up some random shit that you need to craft good PvP gear. Like not the best shit but pretty good. This is so there is a time based mechanic on regearing that everyone in the game has equal access to. Also P2W with multiple accounts but w/e game makes more money.

    Make PvP gear take some time investment, make grinding skills always be a gain to your bank..

    But overall look at the core issue, Full loot PvP causes attrition because the casual/bad players need to spend more time to be able to get back to par, and those players usually don’t have the extra time. Time invested into playing the game outside of PvP should always help regearing for PvP. There are lots of ways you can adjust the systems but since darkfall has always been ass backwards combined with the huge skill gap it is one huge hurdle to jump.