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Discussion: Darkfall: Rise of Agon - A Pivotal Moment

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by MWTaylor, Jul 25, 2017.

  1. Thug Life

    Thug Life Gravelord
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    GOOD.

    Please begin by removing stamina drain while sprinting or at least reduce it significantly. Also, it would be nice if new players started out with the stamina preservation skill (I don't remember the name).

    Also also, could you please spread the archery abilities out more? Instead of having to grind to 75 in archery before you can actually begin to deal any noticeable damage and avoid draining your stam to zero quickly could you have more skills added at the 25 and 50 marks? The bonus can be the same, but just spread it out over earlier skills.

    Lastly, it would be nice is transfers no longer cost reagents but I'm sure a lot of the vets won't agree with that.
     
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  2. Sero

    Sero Menhir Sentinal
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    This is a really good point.

    Addressing the issue that this game has a very high skill ceiling, personally i think theres still room for it to be raised.

    Lets get one thing straight though, the ceiling does not need to be lowered. We do not need to limit quality play, we need to bring the floor up so even a casual has impact, and like many have said, this is done with the reduction of grind and giving noobs decent characters. It is already so difficult to fight outnumbered in this game, nothing should be done to dumb it down to make it impossible. It takes immense coordination and skill, and players should not be punished for being better. Giving noobs good characters and proper gear makes them a very lethal asset with the way AOEs and melee work in this game.

    So again lets lower the grind, and not only that lets give vets and high end players content to do that will leave noobs alone, so they can farm/fight people their own skill level in peace.

    The introduction of zones and rewards based on these zones is the first step. Changing village rewards to something reasonable and not 5 of 15 different things is another, so theyre actually worth it. Lower the timer, and increase rewards for more dangerous villages.

    Lastly i still stand strong that an arena with elo should be this games final end game. A rating grind is not only imperative for long term player retention, it also provides a means to stream, and a means for BPG to look at combat in a proper setting, and make meta changes/adjustments based on what is clearly overused and abused.
     
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    #502 Sero, Jul 29, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2017
  3. pdub87

    pdub87 New Member

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    I think we can all agree the reason most people love darkfall is the PVP.

    Just because Darkfall has historically been an mmo with a massive open world, freeloot PVP, endgame focus on sieges and clan based play, etc... doesn't mean that you can't add new game modes or ways for players to play the game.

    I don't think you necessarily need to rip apart the game, or change Darkfall significantly. People don't like change. If you change what they love, they get alienated and pissed.

    IMO, I would not change darkfall as it exists too drastically. Rather, extend the game and capitalize on the existing game systems and reuse them in new/different modes of play. Capitalize on the excellent PVP system in the game, the part that everyone loves. Competitive arenas. Casual and Ranked/Competitive PVP battlegrounds (lots of ways to do it... wow style CTF / capture the point/etc, DAoC style battlegrounds, etc). Disable full loot in PVP arenas and battlegrounds. Perhaps give all players a set of balanced PVP gear when they go into these new PVP modes. Allow players to get skill and loot gains (at least gold or something) in the new PVP modes. I don't want to have to farm a bag of loot after every match.

    Only reason I dont play darkfall right now is because I don't have time for grinding, clan stuff, etc. I have like an hour to play games and i just wanna PVP. If i could level up a character solely by playing PVP matches that were somewhat balanced as a new player, I would be playing darkfall. Let me hop into PVP with my shitty naked character with 2 hours play time and let me play a balanced match of capture the flag / team deathmatch / capture the point / random 1v1, 2v2, etc. I would be playing darkfall for sure.

    Make it easy to jump into a game fast, interesting to watch on Twitch, etc. I wanna see that hunger games battle mode up in here.
     
    #503 pdub87, Jul 29, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2017
  4. Sero

    Sero Menhir Sentinal
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    I actually agree with the reagent cost on transfers, they are an essential spell that are pretty much required to do things efficently.

    Your stam drain comment is uneccessary though. Stam drain for movement is the first penalty for combat and is the base of stat management. If movement didnt drain stamina, combat would become infinitely easier, and would favor melee pushing even more than currently. Positioning and movement are important in Darkfall and should remain so.

    How about instead of getting rid of stam drain, you try managing your stats better like many have done before you. Its part of the player skill. Im not looking forward to the parry run forward nonsense that would occur with this change.

    Yes, ofc to the stam regen passive though.

    Also: Furthermore on the grind reduction. I always thought the prowess system was amazing, but very poorly implemented. Instead of making it kill X mob a number of times for X. Hoe aboit you get experience based on kill, and you cannlevel what you choose. This takes away the boring cast bolt a bunch to level ability.
     
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    #504 Sero, Jul 29, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2017
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  5. kilrain

    kilrain Shadow Knight
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    If it were removed then stamina drain in other areas of combat could be adjusted to compensate if it was a problem. As long as sprinting, or even running, was not possible without stamina then I don't personally see an issue with removing the drain from sprinting.
     
  6. Mycke

    Mycke Obsidian Golem

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    I think there is a really interesting question being posed here and im not sure anyone has the answer, but I think its a really good question that even its just being thought about is as good as an answer.

    Does an arena take more from the game than it gives or does the fact it still keeps people playing override them temporarily not being in the 'open world'?
     
    #506 Mycke, Jul 29, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2017
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  7. Sero

    Sero Menhir Sentinal
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    It goes back to the vet vs noob argument. All tgis does is lower skill cap, noobs could run straight forward and zerg someone down without reprecussion, lots of outnumbered fights are won because of stat drain, stam being the main one because noobs csnt on more than one thing (they need to learn how to, as humans if not gamers)

    In the end its your guys decision on this, im not sure how hard this will affect combat, but stat management is huge in high skill play.
     
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  8. kilrain

    kilrain Shadow Knight
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    If stamina want used for every action in the game or sprinting wasn't a full time thing I would agree.
     
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  9. miasMa

    miasMa Varangian Warthane
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    Stam bug in Darkfall still allowed good players to beat zergs outnumbered because when you pulled away you still had some stamina after bunnyhopping which meant you only needed to get your hp up from crossheals.
     
  10. miasMa

    miasMa Varangian Warthane
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    Wouldn't know, only era I played. :/
     
  11. propain

    propain Black Knight
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    As long as there are counter measures the pros definitely outweigh the cons.

    Put the arena queue person or whatever in the open world (away from npc cities) requiring a small travel time. Multiple locations preferred. This is a pvp hotspot now and would make chance encounters more frequent.

    Put some sort of system loss in. It can be anything. Gear loss, durability loss, gold fee to participate. Any type of sink is a sink, it cannot be sustainable. This requires you to go out into the world if you wish to keep playing the arenas. Arenas should NOT be a way to gain gear or items. The reward for an arena should be the instant pvp, and leaderboard (monthly reward for top 3 player or something is a nice addition).

    The pros with all of this is this.

    #1 You create a competitive game.

    #2 It is now stream-able. Streaming is the #1 best way to advertise your game these days and ROA is unstreamable due to the shitlords in this cesspool sadly.

    #3 You have a stable way to keep people interested in this game long term. This WILL NOT gain a massive amount of people but this does keep people playing until BPG can deliver content and it may even attract competitive players if the barrier to entry gets lowered.

    #4 You make the game less tedious. We all have those days where you want to play but you only got 20 minutes and really want to get your fix in. This does that. It makes the game a little bit more casual for people when they don't want to go searching the whole world for an hour to find a fight that results in either getting blobbed or killing someone half stats at a spawn.

    The only argument that I will concede to be a con to the arena system is that it will likely make Darkfalls open world pvp less common. However with counter measures I do believe that we can minimize that and if BPG does implement the queue system in the open world, then there will be more chance encounters around that area not to mention if the system requires you to go out into the world and restock to play an arena then this might even increase activity if all people want to do is arena. Its not like there is much to lose. The open world scene for RoA is practically nothing last I checked. This is nothing more than a bandaid fix to stop the hemorrhaging of this game imo. Arena systems have been proven time and time again to keep peoples interest for long periods of time and what BPG needs is time to give us more resources to bring in more new blood.
     
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    #511 propain, Jul 29, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2017
  12. Mycke

    Mycke Obsidian Golem

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    I think this is a very well reasoned post and I am pretty much thinking along the same lines, its better to have someone who plays at all, even if 80% in an arena and 20% to restock, than to not have that person at all.
     
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  13. propain

    propain Black Knight
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    Aye, the thing is an arena is a lifetime option for the veteran/pvp crowd. Any and almost all other developer focus after that can be solely for the purpose of bringing in more people to this game, fluff, real MMORPG content, and simply making it easier to get into. BPGs biggest concern right now is time imo. They do not have AAA developers and this game is going to need time to fix. I'll be the first to admit it, I thought this game would of been fine with some minor changes but I was wrong. An arena buys the time needed to fix it imo.
     
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  14. DarkGhost25

    DarkGhost25 Black Knight
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    Agreed. At this point I just want arenas, in ANY form lol. I especially want to sit back, relax, and watch darkfall streams, but playing is 10 times more fun than watching. If I'm going to watch regularly it has to be BPG content or arenas, tournaments, etc. I won't lie, when a streamer dies I just turn it off because I'm not sitting there for a half hour for nothing. Add in arena and I don't mind waiting a little while.
     
  15. Mycke

    Mycke Obsidian Golem

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    I agree and would probably keep the vets off the backs of the non vets more, as long as gear gets worn out and they need to spend X% of game time restocking its a net plus. It might be the easiest way to lock in their core playerbase, while giving breathing room to newer players.

    The player base here have always wanted to make it a bit of an E sport, maybe its time to listen.
     
  16. Green Chili

    Green Chili Spellgazer
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    I think some type of arena would definitely be a good thing. It gives the very pvp focused something to do instantly and would hopefully keep them mostly away from the pve'ers and those just trying to level. Plus, if it is done right, it could be a nice little downtime activity for those in game, to watch, fight, or bet on fights, as well as something for people to stream. With a high enough gold/dura cost to fight it can, in turn lead to more people back in the open world.
     
  17. DarkGhost25

    DarkGhost25 Black Knight
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    It would also serve as a nice platform for BPG hosted tournaments. And I agree with all your points!
     
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  18. Drago

    Drago Deadeye

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    Can start by listening..
    When everyone tells you that -200 orange characters in npc cities are not understandable and lead to griefing.
    Make red red and green green and dont say its fine there is no problem.

    Reintroduce race wars and make a newbie-only island where the different races live close to each other and can experience newbie pvp from day one.
    In ROA there is no newbie pvp at all.

    Travel: Remove most portals, rune stones, recalls etc and let just a few portals live that connect main and subs and to cross really far distances.. remove all the short distance ones.
    Instant travel is good for vets not new players and makes every fight accessible to everyone, which is something you DONT want if the game is supposed to be casual friendly.. Also the world becomes more alive if there is people actually travelling in it.

    Lower the Stats and skill Power gap dramatically and the grind as well, grinding intensifies, spells, subspells is fun for a few, pvp on a equal level would be fun for a lot bigger audience.. choose your target audience and cater to them.
    I have played very casually since a month after launch and am not anywhere close to maxing or being 1:1 viable.
    Imo, give every new player access to a fully maxed magic school after leaving newbie island, so they have some things at hand that will actually dmg a vet, and make the further schools achievable through grind / progression, that way you leave something to unlock and still the path to pvp is quicker.

    Make gear that is usable in pvp easy to access. I dont need another work.

    Make it possible to use the global trade market without an Alt in Sanguine.

    Remove all the redundant skills that everyone is going to have maxed eventually.

    Last but not least.. You would have to stop listening to the tryhard corefanboys that did a bad job beta testing in the first place and try to find those that give you honest feedback.
     
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  19. Lordpete

    Lordpete Goblin Shaman
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    Reintroduce race wars incourages ganking noobs.
    Remove most portals, rune stones, recalls etc - so people spend hours just traveling about?.
     
  20. Sero

    Sero Menhir Sentinal
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    This is wrong. It takes forever to travel in this game, it's half the time it takes to farm sometimes. Portal hubs are whats necessary, need to look at other ways of splitting the vets and noobs. Casuals shouldn't have to travel 20 minutes to a mob spawn just to farm.

    And trust me, this world is too big for traveling to make feel it alive, hotspots make it feel alive.
     
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    #520 Sero, Jul 29, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2017
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