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Discussion: Developer Blog #4 - Tuesday, April 5th

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by MWTaylor, Apr 6, 2016.

  1. AlphaMage

    AlphaMage Goblin Shaman

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    I don't know I just don't feel it will help. They say the Jack of All Trades folks are what they want to avoid but anyone willing to spend the time and effort to get to that point are the same exact people that will just have an alt or two and we are right back to where we started only everyone else is penalized. The beauty of Darkfall was that you could do anything you wanted, be what you want to be. You don't have to reroll a new character because you chose the wrong class you just level new skills, you don't level up a crafting tree only to realize is stinks and now your stuck with it you just level another one, it kills the spirit of Darkfall to remove this ability. I get that this isn't a single player game it's an mmo it is to be expected to interact with others, but not all of us want to have to rely on others for every single step of the way. Those of us that want to be self reliant are not the same people that flood the market with crafts that will happen no matter how many masteries you can have or how many alts it takes to get there.
     
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  2. zander

    zander Chosen of Khamset
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    The hope is that by limiting masteries there will be fewer people with the various different crafting skills. This will force scarcity and lead to weapons being valued properly, instead of less than material cost. In DFO everyone could grind all crafting skills so people made weapons lower than cost simple because they wanted to use rare mats for leveling and recoup some losses. With this change hopefully weapons would be worth more than their mat cost and people could make money off crafting.

    However i agree with the suggestion someone else posted: Don't limit crafting but those who sacrifice combat effectiveness for specializing in crafting will have the chance to get the high rolls for weapons and the higher durability on armour/weapons.

    Everyone can craft everything but dedicated crafters will make the best stuff and so still be more valuable.
     
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  3. Carrot Soup

    Carrot Soup Celestial
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    i ONLY craft in darkfall, with 'some' pve, basically just enough pve to get my mats. by limiting my capacity as a crafter, they're limiting the amount of time i'll actually spend playing the game. which is total crap in my opinion. yes, crafting needs some love, yes the economy was a little off (not a lot off in my opinion) and yes i was there at end game when everyone had everything. but it was NOT because of the 'jack of all trade' crafters. it was because people started finally using their stockpile banks.

    want a better solution? make crafters not viable for pvp, they seemed to come up with a good solution for Destro, why not crafters? fact of the matter is that even in UW, a crafter can craft everything. the economy there is screwed, but not because of crafters, it's because of the market system and lack of players, not to mention the fact that people duped like mad when it was possible. i've played it recently, and crafting in UW is 20 times better than it was at launch, less mats required, less time spent, etc.

    my point is this. there are better ways to fix the economy than by limiting the class of people that actually DRIVE the economy. I wanted to see crafting less time consuming, and less tedious.. i dont want to make 8000 pairs of pants for my mastery, UW has actually done well in this aspect. sure, you'll get guys like me who ONLY craft and will be able to max out all the high end crafting skills, but, why should i not be allowed to do that? why is the time that i spend in the game, not as valuable as the time of pvp'ers, pk'ers, reds, raiding parties etc? want a hint? my time is just as valuable as yours. I do not deserve to be restricted or limited just for the sake of keeping a pvp'er from crafting everything.

    make crafting a specialty, like Destro, you sacrifice something to be a crafter. thats how you fix it. not by limiting my capacity as a crafter.

    some will make alt's to craft, thats fine, its another sub for the company, not everyone will do that. I certainly will not. and i'll be damned if i'm going to have 4 alts so that i can make everything either. no, limits are limits, you do not impose limits on crafters, unless you intend to impose them on mages, archers, and fighter types as well. when you do that, you've got classes/roles and you end up with UW.

    yeah, i bitch a lot, and my opinions are extreme at times. but theres a reason for them. just because my opinion differs from yours doesn't make it wrong. there are better ways to fix the economy than screwing with crafters.

    what's the new slogan going to be ? in Rise of Agon, you're 'mostly' free?

    IN DARKFALL.. YOU ARE FREE.

    it should remain that way.
    --- Post updated ---
    i was there from start to finish , and guess what, i was (one of) those guys who could craft everything and flooded the market at the end because i finally emptied my bank. I had no reason to keep my stash. you guys are seeing this as a good change because you only remember the time when EVERYONE crafted because the game was ending and they had nothing left to do. add more content, add more mobs, add more map. THAT will help slow down the 'jack of all trades' that you guys are so worried about, they'll have other crap to do rather than spend their time crafting. if you'd rather pvp than craft then go pvp, but don't complain about those of us who ONLY want to craft.. it's a play style just like all the rest. limit the amount of people that can craft by making them less pvp viable, dont restrict what i can do in a game where i'm SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO DO IT ALL.
    --- Post updated ---
    it also means that small clans like mine, will be filled with crafters instead of out pvp'ing. how do you not see the problem? trade ganking was part of the game, you had to learn to be careful, fixes to the alignment system would help that. more vendors? one at every house on the map wasnt enough? i never seemed to have a problem finding mats or getting people to buy my stuff. i agree that it'd be helpful to have something built into the GUI that would allow you to browse everything for sale at all the vendors and then tell you the locations of the things you need.

    what ruined the economy was not 'too many crafters' it was too many players with nothing else to do. so they'd spend their time crafting instead of going out and searching for pvp because they were lazy or didnt have the time.

    yeah, it was impossible to make a profit in crafting. and unless they put mandatory standard pricing on everything, it's going to remain that way. there will always be some jackass who ganked a set of dragon armor off of someone and willing to sell it for about 1/3rd of it's actual value. if thats what you want to stop then limiting crafters is not going to help. the problem was exactly that, you couldnt sell your wares, not because of the markets but because there was some joker who undercut you because he 'didnt work to get the gear' he just ganked someone or battle looted a bag.

    sure something needs to be done to prevent overflow, but restrictions are not the way to do it. UW is (almost) living proof.
    --- Post updated ---
    classes, roles, DFUW. no thanks.
    --- Post updated ---
    this hope, is misplaced. limiting what i can do, will limit the time i spend in the game. resulting in fewer people online at any given time. the only thing it will FORCE is for my clan to all have an alt sub so that my small clan can get the gear it needs. the people who 'like' this idea, were most likely in mega clans with plenty of supplies and their only problem in life was that someone undercut their prices constantly.

    the problem was under pricing. it wasnt because everyone could craft.. wanna sell that infernal set? you gotta price it lower than the guy who just ganked that set off of someone else. the 'ganker' put no time, or effort into that bag so he/she does not CARE how much it sells for, they just see instant coin due to the lower price. THAT is what needed to be fixed.

    put a mandatory 'bottom sale price' on every item so that nothing ever changes hands without the coin being involved, OR, like i've said dozens of times, restrict crafters from being good at pvp. that way, if you wanna do it all (pvp, magic, crafting etc), you're gonna suck at it, while those of us who specialize in crafting will excel at it, but suck at pvp.
    --- Post updated ---
    this hope, is misplaced. limiting what i can do, will limit the time i spend in the game. resulting in fewer people online at any given time. the only thing it will FORCE is for my clan to all have an alt sub so that my small clan can get the gear it needs. the people who 'like' this idea, were most likely in mega clans with plenty of supplies and their only problem in life was that someone undercut their prices constantly.

    the problem was under pricing. it wasnt because everyone could craft.. wanna sell that infernal set? you gotta price it lower than the guy who just ganked that set off of someone else. the 'ganker' put no time, or effort into that bag so he/she does not CARE how much it sells for, they just see instant coin due to the lower price. THAT is what needed to be fixed.

    put a mandatory 'bottom sale price' on every item so that nothing ever changes hands without the coin being involved, OR, like i've said dozens of times, restrict crafters from being good at pvp. that way, if you wanna do it a
    sure they're reading it, but are they looking at it objectively? i've said nothing for nearly two months on this forum, just sat back reading. if they were following the 'masses' they'd know that the majority do not like this idea, its only support comes from the vocal minority. the same vocal minority that caused changes in DFO, changes that resulted in the game dying.

    add content, add map, add cities both npc and player, add housing (for the love of Darkfall add housing please!!!), add in incentives for people to be out and about, but dont screw with the core of the game, and i dont care what anyone says, crafters were the core of that game. they created the gear, they created the ships, they created it all, screwing with that, screws with the ENTIRE GAME and it's not a good idea at all.
    --- Post updated ---
    this hope, is misplaced. limiting what i can do, will limit the time i spend in the game. resulting in fewer people online at any given time. the only thing it will FORCE is for my clan to all have an alt sub so that my small clan can get the gear it needs. the people who 'like' this idea, were most likely in mega clans with plenty of supplies and their only problem in life was that someone undercut their prices constantly.

    the problem was under pricing. it wasnt because everyone could craft.. wanna sell that infernal set? you gotta price it lower than the guy who just ganked that set off of someone else. the 'ganker' put no time, or effort into that bag so he/she does not CARE how much it sells for, they just see instant coin due to the lower price. THAT is what needed to be fixed.

    put a mandatory 'bottom sale price' on every item so that nothing ever changes hands without the coin being involved, OR, like i've said dozens of times, restrict crafters from being good at pvp. that way, if you wanna do it a
    sure they're reading it, but are they looking at it objectively? i've said nothing for nearly two months on this forum, just sat back reading. if they were following the 'masses' they'd know that the majority do not like this idea, its only support comes from the vocal minority. the same vocal minority that caused changes in DFO, changes that resulted in the game dying.

    add content, add map, add cities both npc and player, add housing (for the love of Darkfall add housing please!!!), add in incentives for people to be out and about, but dont screw with the core of the game, and i dont care what
    i'm not okay with it at all, im not okay with limiting my crafting abilities at all either.
    --- Post updated ---
    i see this crafting change as a form of political correctness. its the suppression of one group, in order to appease an extremely vocal minority. the fact is, that people under selling because they didnt earn the mats are the ones that caused the problem. maybe BPG should focus on that instead of penalizing me for being ONLY a crafter.

    giving me lower durability on an item because i have no mastery, will not change the fact that people will lose infernal sets and that those sets will then be placed on a merchant for a stupidly low price.

    under cutting the value of items is what caused the problem. figure out a way to stop people from selling infernal fillers for 200g and you stop the 'flooding' issue that the very vocal minority is bitching about. restricting peoples ability to craft is not the proper solution.

    idea 1: set a minimum price for everything.. keep it so that clans can trade through the bank, but if i trade you a filler to someone, or you put it on a merchant, you should be required to charge the 'minimum' value for that item, else the trade cannot happen.

    idea 2: dont limit my ability to craft and do it well, limit my ability to craft AND pvp. destro for example, you sacrifice magic, to be better at melee vs mages.

    idea 3: heres a novel idea, leave it the hell alone! the system was never broken, the players were. if people dont want the market flooded they should take some personal responsibility and never sell anything for a lower price than me or the next guy.
     
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  4. Super Star

    Super Star Oak Lord
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    Man your ideas are killing me inside. How can someone suggest ideas that are so illogical. Do you understand why people under cut the value of the items? There was too much in circulation, and if i wanted to sell mine quicker than someone else, or sell it at all for that matter, I had to lower my price. Making players choose a limited amount of masteries reduces the amount of everything in circulation, therefore theoretically increasing its value. You can't profit in a system where everyone has the ability to craft and sell the exact same thing. Good luck telling people to "take personal responsibility and never sell anything for a lower price than me or the next guy" im sure that will work extremely well.
     
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  5. Carrot Soup

    Carrot Soup Celestial
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    so because nobody will take personal responsibility i should sit down and shut up when a company decides to take away the SINGLE REASON i played the game to begin with? its not illogical, it just doesnt fit in line with your point of view. maybe you should read the suggestions, and actually provide one youself instead of just joining in with the everything they say is great crowd. you can highlight and spin this conversation a million ways and i'll still disagree with the concept that i should be limited in what i can craft without placing limits on how people use magic, and how people use melee, and how people use archery.

    let me put it so that you can see the logic....
    i dont want to play if i'm limited in ANYTHING that's not limited by my choice. its the reason i stopped playing UW. limitations. hows this logic?

    if i dont like it, i'm not going to pay for it and i'm not going to play it. logical enough? it's a product, if you screw with a product then you piss off customers, though a small few will like the change. every successful business in the world understands it.. how is it that you do not? the idea/change needs to be perfect and needed in order for customers to like/agree with it. the idea of restricting my play style, while not restricting YOUR play style, does not make me happy in the least.

    i will always contend that this is a horrible idea and have suggested what i believe to be better options. you have the right to your opinion, and i do not try to insult you over it. my opinion is mine, it's concrete and nothing anyone can say or do will change my mind. do not limit my play style and expect me to be happy with it.
     
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  6. Chuck Zitto

    Chuck Zitto Gravelord
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    You guys keep aruging you had to sell stuff for to low cus you made crap. The real crafters like myself who sold top rolls with top roll enchants were doing just fine actually way more than fine.
     
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  7. Super Star

    Super Star Oak Lord
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    What's with this personal responsibility crap. If someone needs gold, they will drop their prices for the item to sell quicker. If someone is facing a lot of competition due to selling the same gear as someone else, they will drop their prices for it to sell quicker. You seem to be the only person in the thread who is constantly crying that they took away your crafting. Your suggestion to fix it is, dont take away your crafting but instead take away your magic and spells. You want them to turn you into a pvp vegetable so u can craft everything in the game. It's just not going to happen.
     
  8. Carrot Soup

    Carrot Soup Celestial
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    apparently you have not properly read my posts, ever.... i DO NOT pvp, thus, i'm already that vegetable that you speak of. so yeah, i'm gonna bitch if they take away 3/4 of the things that i can do in the game. like it or lump it, it's my opinion and it's the way i played darkfall. it will also be the way i play darkfall in the future unless they screw with it in the aforementioned way, then i'll play skyrim and league while not crafting in darkfall. they will literally be removing my incentive to play the game. it's not my problem if you can't handle that concept.
     
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  9. Super Star

    Super Star Oak Lord
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    I understand that, but there is a very small minority that ONLY crafts. What about the others who love crafting as well and pvp. We limit them as well?
     
  10. Carrot Soup

    Carrot Soup Celestial
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    yes you limit them as well
    --- Post updated ---
    what's good for the goose is good for the gander, why the hell should i be limited in my game play when others are not? make the changes even across the board or leave DF the hell alone until you can figure out a change that makes sense. limiting crafters, does not make sense to me, i'm a crafter.
     
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  11. Avenging Martyr

    Avenging Martyr Celestial
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    2 things. First these changes are not set in stone and I'm sure BPG plans to have meets about possible paths after they have fixed thier server issue.

    Second thing... Did you seriously just quote yourself?
     
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  12. Carrot Soup

    Carrot Soup Celestial
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    what's good for the goose is good for the gander, why the hell should i be limited in my game play when others are not? make the changes even across the board or leave
    yah, i botched an attempt to edit the post apparently, but, i'm a quotable guy :)

    point remains, screw with crafting and you screw with the entire system in very unpredictable ways. its never a good idea to make such drastic changes to any mechanic that has such a profound effect on a game.

    it also DOES limit the play style of those of us who only craft or pve, sure, darkfall was designed with pvp in mind, but the idea that such a huge, beautiful, monster filled map was meant solely for pvp is ludicrous. if that were truly the case, they'd hole everyone up in center map and make it an arena. they put mobs, map, housing, merchants and all the rest to help support the pvp crowd. now they want to tie the hands of the support people its not a good idea.
     
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  13. Avenging Martyr

    Avenging Martyr Celestial
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    You did it again somehow... the same part too.... Lol. The econonmic need a overhaul. It needs a major change. Maybe it won't be what the started with but it does need to happen.
     
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  14. Carrot Soup

    Carrot Soup Celestial
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    i still contend that a base line standard price on every item would solve the problem, or make crafters like destro, not able to pvp worth anything but genius at crafting.

    i'll not deny that the economy needed help, but it was not as broken as people thought either. i sold everything i made with no problems. many other crafters were the same, no problems selling things and generally i had 'back orders' from people that would keep me busy for days.

    if crafting were to somehow be made profitable, while limiting crafters from going out and being pvp gods, that would provide the needed balance. how to do that is the problem.

    just throwing such a huge restriction on crafters seems more like an AV desperation attempt at bandaging a problem instead of taking the time to fix it properly.

    stop china farmers from selling mats and gold online, and 80% of your economy issues go away. stop duping, stop hackers, and you'll eliminate another 10%, then your only challenge is to figure out a way to keep prices 'even'.

    the part of that last 10% of the problem that did the most damage from what "I SAW" in the game, was player 1, ganks player 2, who has infernal gear. then player 1 sells that set for 1500 gold, when the crafters are having to pay around 4000 gold to make an equivalent set. a mandatory price for each item would eliminate this issue. crafters would be able to produce goods knowing that they'll get x profit from the item, and if player 1 happens to get that gear from player 2, player 1 will be required by the system to sell the gear for the 'minimum set value'. this would still allow people to undercut each other while ensuring that EVERYONE gets at least a standard price for those items. it would also be beneficial for player 1, as he'd gain more gold than what he would have by just selling to the highest bidder because he's guaranteed X profit.

    not a perfect idea, i understand that, but it's certainly better than ripping 80% of my game play away from me. and if "Carrot Soup" can come up with an idea that 'might work' surely there are smarter people working for BPG that can come up with something more creative, easier to implement, and functionally solves the problem ... no restricting bandages needed.
     
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  15. Maejohl

    Maejohl Windlord
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    Yup.

    All the naysayers need to quit the whining and give this change a try.

    It's ALPHA/BETA.

    So if the change makes no real difference by the end of its test phase, no doubt it will be reverted.
     
  16. Ikaika Koa

    Ikaika Koa Goblin Warlord
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    As someone who mained crafting in dfo, (while also loving pvp, and hating pve) I think it's a terrible idea to limit crafting masteries!
    I knew many people who loved crafting, and this hurts their play style, not helps them. Taking things away from people will not help the economy. People will only level their limited masteries faster, vs if they had to work on several thing at once, which means the "better masteries" will flood the market with certain gear sooner, since everyone will be leveling the same masteries. It will break the market quickly.
    Worrying about the "jack of all trades" players flooding the market, at the end of the game? I had no issues til after the increased xp weekend, when the game was ending, and everyone was able to level what they hadn't before. Before then, selling of gear was limited, because darkfall players are hoarders. We measure wealth by the loot we had. People that had gear, kept their things.
    Limiting the amount of masteries one can have, puts a limit on game content one can do, which means less time in game. We want people to stay and play, not leave cause they're running out of things to do. Add more content instead. Don't limit what we already have.
    If you think people leveled crafting too fast, lower the xp gain. Make it so it takes twice as long, so people focus on certain things they want the most, without limiting a large part of the game. This is darkfall. This is freedom. Might as well limit combat. See what the outcry will be then.
    If you're trying to find a use for a crafter specialization, use Thomar and Grumbagz suggestions. Dedicated crafters create better gear, but don't take away these crafters playstyle, by limiting what they can make. Limit them in other areas,(pvp) like destro limited certain abilities. And don't limit noncrafters by their ability to play certain ways, instead limit their effectiveness. This will create an economy where those crafted by masters are more expensive. There will be other gear on the market, but you need to pay, if you want better gear. I personally think this is the best way.
    If you are set on limiting what people can do, make the masteries cap a soft cap. Use xp skill gains, rather than mats and resources. Example: with 2 masteries, your xp gains are normal. It lowers with each mastery added, so it takes longer to level, the more masteries you add. Having the crafting specialist can negate some of this, (can have 5 masteries at normal xp gain) while still nerfing somethings else, like pvp abilities. Don't make it so someone have to spend 3 times the resources to craft something though, because nobody will compensate them, which screws over the dedicated crafters.
    Bottom line is, this is darkfall. Darkfall is freedom. Don't take away peoples abilities to play a certain way, when there are other ways to fix the economy.
     
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  17. Decon Black

    Decon Black Goblin Scout
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    Honestly I don't things should be limited at all! Having an open gameplay system to do what ever you want is what made DFO great in the first place. Limiting stuff people can do as I think we all saw in DFUW is a way to make a game fail (along with a shitty company running it).
    Regardless you are going to have people who bitch and moan but the weak ones will leave and make way for loyal players who stick around and appreciate DFO for exactly what it is, a game that breaks the mold and the only thing out there that's worth a shit.
     
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  18. Carrot Soup

    Carrot Soup Celestial
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    not gonna happen, deal with it. i iz who i iz.
     
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  19. Ikaika Koa

    Ikaika Koa Goblin Warlord
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    I don't see them reverting any changes made, unless it completely breaks the game, which you probably won't see the effects of, until after testing. Even with everything increased
     
  20. Kakow Hatestrangler

    Kakow Hatestrangler New Member
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    You say dont take away peoples abilities to play a certain way, yet you also say this...
    If you take away someones ability to pvp effectively thats just as game breaking as taking away their ability to craft everything.