Welcome to the Rise of Agon Community

Create an account today to engage in discussions and community events on the Rise of Agon forums.

Discussion: Development Update November 28th - PvP Stances and Zone Changes

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Agon Herald, Nov 28, 2019.

  1. Agon Herald

    Agon Herald Goblin Scout
    BPG Representative

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2019
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    21
    Happy Thanksgiving!

    We're getting close to our goal, expect more news very soon

    Read more: Development Update November 28th - PvP Stances and Zone Changes
    --- Post updated ---
    Sorry everyone the thread was posted as locked by mistake, it's been corrected now -
    Share your feedback or ask a question and we'll answer to the best of our ability
     
    koruun, Billy Lee and KingLlama like this.
  2. BeatIt

    BeatIt Obsidian Golem
    Loyal Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2016
    Messages:
    1,972
    Likes Received:
    2,345
    can u show us the map where is the safezone and pvp zone. k ty
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    NonFactor likes this.
  3. TyteDaddyTite

    TyteDaddyTite Obsidian Golem
    Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2016
    Messages:
    1,624
    Likes Received:
    2,858
    Nice work BPG! You guys own!
     
    Billy Lee likes this.
  4. Agon Herald

    Agon Herald Goblin Scout
    BPG Representative

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2019
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    21
    This is a good question. Something that will be clearer with PTS is how large the area actually is, as it is at the moment it covers the human racial area, the PTS can help us find issues and make sure it feels right.

    It would look roughly like this


    This sketch is not 100% accurate but it's quite close to what it is right now.
    edit: Corrected mistake in the previous image
     
    #4 Agon Herald, Nov 29, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2019
    Billy Lee likes this.
  5. Lordbacon

    Lordbacon Goblin Warrior
    Loyal Supporter

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    44
    All those changes are pointless when can we see archery/melee skills? Skill cap? You know real changes? I use to have fun pvping in darkfall but after a while throwing the same spell rotation against the same spell rotation its get realy borring. Bring diversity in the game for fuck sake !
     
  6. BeatIt

    BeatIt Obsidian Golem
    Loyal Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2016
    Messages:
    1,972
    Likes Received:
    2,345
    during sieges whats gonna happen??

    everyone needs to get skull stance on???

    or is it gonna be grey zone like villages going live
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  7. Agon Herald

    Agon Herald Goblin Scout
    BPG Representative

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2019
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    21
    If I'm not mistaken there's a mechanic that flags everyone in the siege area, I would need to get clarification on this to give a proper answer but this was discussed before. I'll try to get confirmation on this from a developer.

    Understandable, we have a bad track record with balancing and this really demoralized the team from doing more combat related changes. On the one hand we get very negative responses when we've tried to change combat and on the other we also understand the combat should evolve to stay interesting. We can't disclose what exactly we're working on, but when we move on to other systems we could revisit this topic.

    We're aware and we want to make it right, but it's not yet time and we have to stick to the plan for now.
     
    Fenrir Frauki and Billy Lee like this.
  8. Inositol

    Inositol Obsidian Golem
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2016
    Messages:
    1,777
    Likes Received:
    4,519
    About time. The concept of full loot PvP games needing safe zones shouldn't have needed to be reinvented. There are 3 successful full loot PvP games, and all 3 of them allow for players to choose their level of risk / reward in terms of venturing farther from the initial safety they're spawned into.

    The main argument over the years has always been the same stale non-argument - "HURR DURR Darkfall was advertised as HARDCORE DUDE", like.. ok? lol

    I hope the days of BPG being swayed by incoherent nostalgia-driven arguments is finally behind them.


    If you really think this, then you probably plateaued before the nuances / mind games became the focal point of PvP for you. They should add miniguns to CSGO tho, amirite?

    This game is an MMO. Imagine if PvP was a secondary consequence of something else, something that you actually cared to fight over. It wouldn't matter what spell rotation you used, all that would matter is whether or not you won the fight. Maybe that's the kind of 'content' you should be lobbying for.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    Sique, The Red King and koruun like this.
  9. BeatIt

    BeatIt Obsidian Golem
    Loyal Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2016
    Messages:
    1,972
    Likes Received:
    2,345
    i agree .. remove disable bolt mini gun now.++

    amirite rex
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    #9 BeatIt, Nov 29, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2019
  10. Inositol

    Inositol Obsidian Golem
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2016
    Messages:
    1,777
    Likes Received:
    4,519

    Ehh...

    This is a prime example of someone who either doesn't know what they actually want, or doesn't want what RoA is offering. RoA isn't an arena, PvP isn't the only thing that exists. You don't need to directly alter PvP mechanics to drastically change how engaged people are with PvP as a whole. When nothing is worth fighting over, the game has to rely on the PvP being engaging enough on its own - and luckily it is, but only for so long. Tinkering with PvP mechanics directly is always going to be a bandaid fix.

    If the game has worthwhile stuff to fight over, the PvP mechanics are *beyond* adequate.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  11. Fenrir Frauki

    Fenrir Frauki Akathar
    Loyal Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2015
    Messages:
    254
    Likes Received:
    180
    When Darkfall released the main selling point was that it was fully open world with full loot PVP and NO safe zones. That is why they sold so many copies they had to limit pre-orders. Look at Ultima Online for example, if they had a private server where you can't be ganked at britain graveyard anyone would actually want to play it? Hell no. Same for Darkfall. All a change like this is going to do is make people who walked away from this game be glad they walked away. What we need are changes that are going to bring people back, and this does the opposite.

    Crap like this is a waste of Dev time. I just made a new char last week that is almost PVP viable now, killed 500 dwarves, 300 goblins, 300 trolls, 200 hobgoblins; haven't been jumped once.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    Copperfield likes this.
  12. ThiefGarrett

    ThiefGarrett Air Elemental
    Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2017
    Messages:
    389
    Likes Received:
    222
    I'll gladly admit that I am one of those that wanted the full loot open world pvp and loved the idea that the world would be more "real" in that sense, but lets not kid ourselves into thinking that "open world, full loot pvp" was the selling point. It's just happens to be the only feature they promised that actually made it into the game. There were countless other features that never made it. It was the combination of all those amazing features they promised that got all the purchases and it was the lack of 99.99% of them why most people didn't make it past the first 6 months.

    The only way this game will survive with 100% open world full loot pvp is if it had every one of those features in the game and every person that was interested at the time back to play it again. Without all that to keep people busy then full loot is downright fucking exhausting. I would rather people play the game every day and only get a chance to kill them once a week when they ventured into pvp land than have them rage quit when they lost everything and eventually stop logging back in.
     
  13. koruun

    koruun Akathar

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2016
    Messages:
    250
    Likes Received:
    360
    I think that this is a step in the right direction, and I could definitely see this facilitating a better NPE (see my sig on the importance of an allotted area for new players). As @Inositol said there really are no strong arguments against this, only net positives, which is demonstrated by similar games.

    @Fenrir Frauki That's a fairly short-sighted and narrow perspective of what Darkfall's selling point was (which is something that we could ramble about for hours, but I'd argue its more about less restricted character gameplay opportunity and dynamic player driven content). I've guided and helped hundreds of new players over the years and this was definitely a hindrance. Genuinely interested to hear more on why you think safe zones are detrimental to the game's health and vision.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  14. Fenrir Frauki

    Fenrir Frauki Akathar
    Loyal Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2015
    Messages:
    254
    Likes Received:
    180
    Which features are you specifically talking about? Darkfall was the game I expected it to be at launch, actually it exceeded my expectations. The things that weren't present, such as a skill 'soft' cap and 4-legged run were things I already knew weren't going to be in the game.

    EVERYONE will never be interested again, but we had as many as possible when RoA launched. They actually did a really good job with most of the changes they have made, it was when they started straying from Darkfalls origins that people started leaving.

    The players WANT Darkfall, that is the difference between RoA and New Dawn. RoA was supposed to be the version that stayed true to Darkfalls core, New Dawn was an attempt to make it into a whole new game. As you can see by how many people played it, the demand for ND was almost non-existent compared to the demand for RoA. The further they stray from the original game of Darkfall, the less people are going to want to play it.

    There are lots of ways to add new content, without changing the game itself. This is not one of them. This is not content. This is a restriction.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    #14 Fenrir Frauki, Nov 29, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2019
  15. ThiefGarrett

    ThiefGarrett Air Elemental
    Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2017
    Messages:
    389
    Likes Received:
    222
    It was meant to be the ultimate sandbox game. You're free to go look up all the info, I don't care enough to. I know.

    "EVERYONE" includes us, so that's not entirely true, and "as many possibilities when roa launched? Not even close. We didn't have near as many people during the launch of ROA as we did with DF. People left because "it was the same game".

    You're part of a group of very unique people that liked DF exactly the way it was and are somehow convinced it's the best possible way to be. That group is much, much smaller than you think and it's not enough to support an MMO. There needs to be compromises.

    In the end it's probably too late anyway. It's too old, the idea is too niche, and supporters don't have the patients to keep supporting it for long enough to make the game better.
     
  16. Fenrir Frauki

    Fenrir Frauki Akathar
    Loyal Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2015
    Messages:
    254
    Likes Received:
    180
    It was meant to be, and still is in my opinion. The combat is simply the best.

    Certain things, such as cities not being fully custom for example, was a bit of a let down to me at the start. But over the years, I have fallen in love with the layouts of various player cities and think the design behind them was genius. As with many other things in Darkfall, once you experience the game and understand it you learn that things are set up that way for a reason.

    There are certain people who will never be interested in Darkfall again, it simply wasn't for them and they aren't coming back. Based on the number of people we had at RoA launch, I think there are a lot more than you think who have been wanting to play Darkfall again.

    That just simply isn't true. I think BPG have done so many good changes that I couldn't even begin to list them all. Certain things needed to be improved, I just don't feel that safe zones are an improvement. Actually I've been saying for a while now that the whole "new player protection" thing needs to go. Darkfall is meant to be different than the rest, that is the whole charm of Darkfall. Trying to trick new players in with 'safe area' is only going to backfire, because that simply isn't how the game works.

    Once again I disagree. But I do think most of the potential Darkfall players at this point aren't sitting around waiting for the next patch notes. What we need is something big, and safe zones simply are not that.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  17. ThiefGarrett

    ThiefGarrett Air Elemental
    Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2017
    Messages:
    389
    Likes Received:
    222
    The combat doesn't make the sandbox. The sandbox doesn't really exist outside of not having linear quests for players to progress with. Everything else that would have made Darkfall the ultimate game were never put in.

    My point was the number of people at launch were interested in an improved DF and left because it was ultimately the same game. Some people wanted magefall removed, others wanted a variety of different things to "change the game". They didn't want DFO. That's why they left.

    The combat alone is enough to be different and in fact many, many MMORPG players wont play DF because of the combat. They like their tab target or ESO fake target bs too much. Then add in the PVP, that's different than the majority of MMOs. Then theres looting on top of that? I mean, being different is good, but this eliminates like 99.99% of all MMO gamers.

    The system they're putting in is a good compromise. The only people "safe" from pvp will be the ones that turn their flag off AND stay in the small corner around human lands.
     
  18. Nat

    Nat Shadow Knight
    Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2016
    Messages:
    3,799
    Likes Received:
    7,604
    The safe zone changes are a good one. The game needs it if it's to appeal to a broader audience and wants to retain players. Now please advertise the damn game and put it on steam or something jeez.
     
    Sique and KingLlama like this.
  19. Inositol

    Inositol Obsidian Golem
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2016
    Messages:
    1,777
    Likes Received:
    4,519

    ?

    That's like... The only 'content' in RoA that isn't part of the sandbox. A Sandbox is an environment where players are able to create their own content / content emerges naturally as a result of player interaction.

    Examples of sandbox gameplay:

    • Sieges, especially ones with heavy consideration given to siege stone placement / terrain / chokes / tactics.
    • A group or players decides they want to control the market on one specific resource, so they lock down specific spawns, and this in turn allows them to manipulate the price of said resource
    • Manipulating market prices is in and of itself a sandbox feature
    • Literally every player-run event
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    Sique likes this.
  20. Kiyayne

    Kiyayne Goblin Shaman

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2016
    Messages:
    71
    Likes Received:
    49
    New Dawn failed primarily because it was based in the EU. Shoulda had NA servers the fools