Welcome to the Rise of Agon Community

Create an account today to engage in discussions and community events on the Rise of Agon forums.

Discussion: Early Development Roadmap

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Hugo, Mar 3, 2016.

  1. Carrot Soup

    Carrot Soup Celestial
    Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2015
    Messages:
    643
    Likes Received:
    198
    this. i'm not sure why anyone would want the node yield reduced. its a UW style change that i'm not sure I like. they did it in safe zones in UW to get people out into the world, it didnt work. the harvesters still hit the nodes, it just makes their 'route' faster or they go somewhere that they can hide while harvesting much easier.

    not to mention that UW is much less populated than I hope DFO to be.

    It sorta feels like they're aiming at reducing 'china farmers' but penalizing crafters in the process because WE are the ones that will suffer, not the pvp'ers. I do not like any change that would negatively effect crafting.

    also, isnt it sorta the point to owning a holding? you own it because of the resources it yields, not because it's pretty. they're effectively removing the reason for owning a holding. sure they're adding in crafting stations, but that can be done in chaos cities and npc cities, or are they planning more UW style changes and want to try to push crafters out of npc cities as well? I do not like the direction of this change at all.
    --- Post updated ---
    i feel like this change does not have a true purpose behind it besides the 'it might be cool to have' line of arguments. it will take away from some of the reasoning to own a holding. and if you're not talking about removing them from hamlets, then i'm extremely confused as to why this would be needed at all.. if anyone can just wander into a hamlet, use the portal, pop out somewhere else, and go where they need to, then i see no reason for wilderness portals.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    Ikaika Koa and aparks like this.
  2. Furion

    Furion Skeleton Archer
    Contributor Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2015
    Messages:
    114
    Likes Received:
    69
    looks good, will there still be an update tomorrow? or did we just get an early present from you guys ? :D
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  3. Carrot Soup

    Carrot Soup Celestial
    Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2015
    Messages:
    643
    Likes Received:
    198
    yours are better how? from what 'need' does the wilderness portal idea come from?

    portals could not be used for trade routes, portals were a benefit to owning a holding, making travel among multiple holdings possible.

    i feel that you could implement a system that would allow holdings to be held by many different clans, yet, ALL ALLIANCE holdings are linked and travel would be possible amongst them. If you put in a system that allows an 'invader' the ability to use the portal systems in enemy cities that would greatly increase pvp as people would be hopping through them quite often. I cannot remember if that option existed in DFO or not but i do know that if you take portals out of hamlets, you're removing one of the biggest reasons for owning it.

    resources/transportation are the main motiviations behind taking a hamlet, the location of the hamlet always had a big factor in wether or not it would be sieged, some hamlets never saw sieges because they were not located well, while others saw tons of action and sieges. removing resources and transportation from hamlets will defeat the purpose of owning one.

    i simply do not understand why we would need a portal out in the middle of nowhere, when we had so many viable transportation options available already.
    --- Post updated ---
    i've been firmly against this one as well but apparently they don't care what we think on this one.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  4. joshuawn

    joshuawn Ghost
    Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2016
    Messages:
    347
    Likes Received:
    688
    there's nothing wrong with normalizing hitboxes (including visual adjustments to height on the models) as long as the aesthetics of the models are conserved.

    melee reach should NOT be lumped into this issue either; it is an entirely different problem that needs to be fixed as soon as possible.

    dest and BPG, please reconsider your stance. the 2010 models were nearly perfect to what people wanted. you can still be a "towering wolf" even though you're the same size as a human male (for instance, what fictional wolf outside of darkfall 1's mahirim can you think of in an FPS game is equal to or greater than the height of a human male character?) wolf team ran into multiple issues with wolf-human balance and implemented mechanics for equalization, including hitbox rebalancing, since humans overpowered wolves at high-level pvp. strafe speed increase doesn't (nor should it) cut it, and don't think about tweaking movement speeds anymore like UW did; that was a massive failure and should've never been touched.

    human males are genuinely pretty tall as is, and being a relatively shorter wolf could easily still look cool as fuck with talented modelers. it would actually incentivize racial diversity while stalling the need for more racial balances (via racial passive/skill balances, alignment, and racial territories) due to interest in aesthetics alone without having to worry about hitbox min/maxing on character creation (and what new player would, or SHOULD, know about issues that arise in higher level pvp)?

    by stubbornly refusing, you raise the following issues which pushes more responsibilities down the pipeline: a new player creates a mahirim with the intent on being a destroyer, but gets punished due to height derivation and finds difficulty compensating at higher levels of pvp. this causes people to ask about "race changes", which leads to noting additional balancing for racial skills & territories & alignment down your pipeline to compensate for racial biases & min/max pvping.

    simply put, by not complying with hitbox equalization, you're fighting a losing battle. at the very minimum, hitbox resizing alongside character model overhauls should be "down the road".
     
    #104 joshuawn, Mar 4, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2016
    Flying Dutchmaster likes this.
  5. Carrot Soup

    Carrot Soup Celestial
    Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2015
    Messages:
    643
    Likes Received:
    198
    the only activity that it will promote, i feel, will be that players like myself will play other games more and DFO less, as i'll end up buying my mats from the china farmers instead of actually farming them myself.

    for me it was never about afk harvesting, i was always at my keyboard, though i admit to watching tv while hitting nodes, i liked to be able to get away with my yield instead of being afk and getting ganked. if you want to eliminate afk harvesting thats fine, but i feel that pushing solo and casual players out into the world in UW fashion is a terrible idea. the idea that i can hop into a city and hit someone's mine without them receiving a notification of it, THAT, would make me go out and about. making UW style changes to defeat something that truly only effected crafters anyway, is never going to be a good idea. lets leave UW where it is, dead and adrift.

    next i expect to see that you're thinking of reducing the size of the nodes in npc cities because too many harvesters are there as well... i really hope you guys don't follow the path of UW on this, it was not good for them, it will not be good for you.
    --- Post updated ---
    this
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  6. aparks

    aparks Obsidian Golem
    Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2015
    Messages:
    1,682
    Likes Received:
    1,018
    Destlocke is the game design LEAD so if you guys want to get idea's across to bpg, it would be best to direct them towards him. He is a pretty stubborn person though. So make sure you all make detailed arguments and before you post, try to find the weakness in your ideas first and edit your posts a few times before posting. Dest locke's mentality is that gamers don't know what me best for themselves and sometimes the devs just need to make decisions and stick to them. I strongly disagree with this mentality, but a lot of other people may agree with it. So keep that in mind when you guys have new ideas or want to try and find holes in BPG's ideas.

    P.s. Directing your desires or complaints may be more welcomed by Andrew/Kimoshu, he's not like dest but sometimes he to feels devs know better than the consumer.

    I think consumers argue on how things should be, but I disagree with the notion that the makers know what the consumers wants better than the consumers themselves.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    #106 aparks, Mar 4, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2016
  7. Erock

    Erock Varangian Warthane
    Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2015
    Messages:
    855
    Likes Received:
    1,109
    The problem was harvesting in safe zones. Which they didn't address or even think about considering until it was too late.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    Fengor likes this.
  8. Carrot Soup

    Carrot Soup Celestial
    Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2015
    Messages:
    643
    Likes Received:
    198
    so take crafting and harvesting out of the game and make it an arena. afk harvesters was how my clan got more than half of it's mats. they're easy prey. if you want people to be active, develop reasons for them to be active. changing existing mechanics that nobody asked for, is not going to help your cause.

    i've been all over the forums and this is probably something that the vocal minority wants but not the silent majority. it's an effort to get more harvesters targetted for pvp.

    this alienates those of us who do not play the game for the pvp.
    --- Post updated ---
    +1
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  9. Rosco

    Rosco Undead Dwarf

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2016
    Messages:
    218
    Likes Received:
    84
    I like a lot of the changes and goals you guys have. However, I always liked the system message, because it rallied everyone that you were under attack, and to gear up and defend your city. People knowing that you were under attack meant pvp, which was a good thing. I would like to see the distance which system messages detect players be reduced. Also, why not let players who are part of the guild who owns a city, have the option to spot a player which then sends a system message to other guildies? This way someone needs to spot the person, which alerts the rest of the guild? With no message, you will just have new players getting ganked while crafting, and then they will quit the game.
     
    BelalCham and Carrot Soup like this.
  10. Erock

    Erock Varangian Warthane
    Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2015
    Messages:
    855
    Likes Received:
    1,109
    I think if something is taking asset damage maybe it should trip system. I believe it says they are going to be experimenting with it meaning the idea isn't 100% written in stone.

    Edit: Experimenting with things and fixing it if it isn't working out is a good thing imo
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    BelalCham likes this.
  11. Carrot Soup

    Carrot Soup Celestial
    Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2015
    Messages:
    643
    Likes Received:
    198
    all in all i like most of their focus, but there are a few directions that they're going are geared to please the ' i dont get enough pvp ' crowd.
    let's keep in mind that the same group of people complaining that they cant gank enough people, are also the same group of people that will not invade player holdings because of the risk. If you want pvp go out and find it, dont force players who do not want to pvp, to go out and pvp. making a group of people miserable in order to appease others is a big problem in the US right now, and i'm firmly against anything being 'balanced' in that manner instead of meaningful additions being put in place.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  12. aparks

    aparks Obsidian Golem
    Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2015
    Messages:
    1,682
    Likes Received:
    1,018
    This isn't true. I can't say why it isn't do to an nda I signed. But bpg wants newbs and casuals and crafters to feel safe in their game. Safer than in df1 at least.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  13. Erock

    Erock Varangian Warthane
    Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2015
    Messages:
    855
    Likes Received:
    1,109
    The main gripe with city raiding is that it was just dead in DFUW, it was a suicide mission and the towers hit way to fucking hard. Coming from someone who raided cities in DFO and tried in DFUW. That's where DFUW went wrong the people that complained about not enough pvp were right, but it was because city raiding was a big part of "roaming" PvP. Which remained untapped in DFUW.

    Hopefully it will be released from its cage again
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  14. Rosco

    Rosco Undead Dwarf

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2016
    Messages:
    218
    Likes Received:
    84
    When DFUW released, towers hit for insane damage..25hp per zap correct? They nerfed towers though, and they did very little damage after that. Towers became more of a warning than any dps. I would rather see city cannons on walls, that need to be used by players, and take ammo.
     
  15. Erock

    Erock Varangian Warthane
    Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2015
    Messages:
    855
    Likes Received:
    1,109
    How do they stop people inside of the city though? If you could turn them around could just hit buildings and grief with them even more than you already can.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  16. aparks

    aparks Obsidian Golem
    Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2015
    Messages:
    1,682
    Likes Received:
    1,018
    Nah they were still more damaging in UW than in DF1. Especially in the heart of the cities where banks were surrounded by towers.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  17. propain

    propain Black Knight
    Loyal Hero

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2015
    Messages:
    1,073
    Likes Received:
    1,344
    Nah they did about 15 after nerf which is still a considerable output every 2 seconds, as well as crunching all the towers together so you got hit by multiple ones at once or very little blindspots. Keep in mind dfo towers did like 2 or 3 with rings, and like 5-8 without (i could be wrong). On top of that constant dps UW had city buffs which were in their own right strong as balls, and walls made their cities death traps. Legit try and escape through the scaffolding or ramp and you become the easiest target to walk the earth. Overall not enough incentive to raid, and even if you wanted to defenders had the best defense, and offense that it wasn't worth it.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  18. helgrik

    helgrik Infernal
    Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2015
    Messages:
    598
    Likes Received:
    352
    To add a slightly different perspective to his point about afk harvesting. Myself and some others I knew that did afk harvest, did not do it out of necessity. We did it while doing housework, laundry, chores, homework, etc... It broke the monotony of sitting in front of the computer all day playing a supercharged adrenaline rush hardcore game. A few others just took smoke breaks and others just wanted to stretch their legs but they wanted to keep their character busy during those times.

    But here's the thing... If we really wanted a lot of raw mats... There's mobs that drop them waaay faster than sitting there harvesting them (Centaurs - steedgrass). But people afk harvest because we have lives. If you mess with that, then you will have those people just log out and that is less people in the world. Less reason for clans to war dec then patrol npc towns.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    cannabis likes this.
  19. Rosco

    Rosco Undead Dwarf

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2016
    Messages:
    218
    Likes Received:
    84
    If people are in the city, time to man up and fight an not rely on towers/cannons.... To avoid griefing city buildings, make cannons damage on buildings very small...
     
  20. Carrot Soup

    Carrot Soup Celestial
    Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2015
    Messages:
    643
    Likes Received:
    198
    believe me when i tell you, that as a crafter, i do not feel safer when i'm forced to go away from the safer areas.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature