This started as a reply to a thread about being jumped at mob spawns, but it turned into a thread before I knew it, so let's have this discussion here instead. It covers quite a bit so it could get messy, but it's just a discussion for now and we'll see where it takes us for further discussions, votes, and such. This turned into a bit of a ramble, but at least it shows some of the thoughts I have regarding these topics. Pvp itself is such a polarizing topic and adding full loot on top of that just makes it that much more of a pve'r deterrent. We all know we need more players and really we need more pve players more than anything. This is an mmorpg after all and catering solely to the pvp mentality doesn't really work that well when those with that mindset can find quicker, easier access to all kinds of pvp without the "rpg" aspect poking it's head in. Any mmorpg that has ever tried to go full pvp, especially full loot, without some kind of "break" for people has suffered in population. You'll always get arguments that UO had a good amount of success, but they also had to make some changes to prevent the player base from bleeding out. Eve Online has high security space which still allows for war declarations and ganking to occur. Albion has non pvp zones. Both of them still get complaints from the pve crowd. In Eve people still complain about war declarations, Albion people complain that not enough can be done solo without going into pvp territory. I don't want to change the game so drastically that we alienate people, but I do think we need to consider our options. I suggest everyone, even those opposed to change, take some time and consider what the game might be like with different scenarios. what would the game be like if we did Eve Style Lawful Areas: Attacking any blue will get you killed - (effectively what happens in Eve with the cops - lots of options here on how to kill the attackers). Wars are the only way around the law. Can attack reds freely without retaliation (in even reds get killed in the higher security spaces). How would it change the game if people could farm in lawful areas without much worry people are going to attack? Albion Style lawful areas: No pvp at all More strict for sure. Part of the problem with making changes now is the shape of the world. There is a rather large section of lawful area and it is not ideal to shrink them if they're going to continue to be separate. Having multiple pockets of lawful with lawless between them could be even more confusing and detrimental to players, but maybe I'm wrong on that. Modifying the world to accommodate a single lawful area that is smaller, like one of the islands, would take a ton of time and effort. Because we have territory control coming soon™ we need to consider changes in lawful areas anyway. A big part of territory control is controlling tiles that are not a part of the one the city resides on. This type of competition doesn't mix well with lawful and it's rules so territory control will be restricted to the islands. This means we'll have cities on the mainland we need to decide what to do with. Do we keep them as is and still allow clans to siege over control individually? I would like to see them turned into daily or weekly events myself. Scheduled sieges that any clan can partake in and when you control it you get the portal and maybe taxes from the land around it. Rambling thoughts: Another thought that goes through my mind when it comes to full loot is we lose out on the concept of legendary items and equipment that we can work for long periods of time to obtain and use freely without worry of losing that hard work. I ask myself what is it that I like about full loot and what would make me like pvp just as much without it? We want full loot not because we lose stuff, that's for sure. It does add to the suspense and heartache, but that's not the main reason we want it. We want it so we can get rewarded for looting our kill. Would looting the inventory alone be enough, keeping the paperdoll safe? Is there something that could replace gear for looting? Some kind of, essence, skill, stat, something? I believe the reward for winning in pvp needs to hurt the loser. Partly because that's part of the victory, right? Making the other guy suffer ☜(ﾟヮﾟ☜) Actually mostly because you can exploit a win scenario if there is no loss on the other end. Anyway now I'm just rambling. I'm curious what everyone thinks about these thoughts, this concept of making some safer areas in roa. How detrimental would it actually be for the game if lawful was changed more? I don't want to alienate anyone, but at the same time... well, I'd like to keep this ship sailing as long as possible. It's not an easy answer for sure or we would have pulled the trigger on more severe changes a long time ago.