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Discussion: Lawful, Pvp, Full Loot

Discussion in 'Design Discussions' started by kilrain, Jun 12, 2019.

  1. Bojangles

    Bojangles Varangian Warthane
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    Stat loss on death will hurt the people who die more often.We do not need more things that are hurting the noobs in Darkfall.

    Removing full loot would also require a lot of changes that would bog down work on meaningful content. Mob loot tables would have to be adjusted, crafting would have to be adjusted, gold sinks would have to be changed, etc. This is all as unnecessary as combat changes have been. Especially if a large amount of the population doesn't want it changed. If you are getting a large amount of negative feedback skip that idea.

    In my opinion BPG should be focusing on fixing sea towers, housing, and holdings so they are worth fighting over; thus creating content. Then they should come up with a seperate content idea, focus solely on it until it is completed, implement it, and then come up with a new idea. Rinse and repeat.

    It seems like there is a habit of BPG to make an unnecessary change, that creates need for more changes, until they force themselves to solely work on fixing things that were not broken before.

    Each bpg dev should find something that is in their capabilities to complete that will create content and work on it until it is done. Questing/territory control/pvp hotspots etc. Move away from the feat type system and utilize empty zones of the map to add npc's that have quest chains. You could have long quest chains for weapon skins, quest chains for mount color variations, quest chains for special character appearance variations (blue ork, green alfar, red elf) whatever. There are so many ideas that give people things to do, that focusing on tweaking unnecessary shit is honestly just spitting in the face of your customers. In a perfect world BPG would have added the gui they have now, and then immediately focused on content. If that had happened we would have lots of content by now.
     
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  2. ZeuZ

    ZeuZ Crypt Guard

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    I agree, this is totally bad if you are trying to attract a different genre of gamer to a starved populated game.

    PvE content alone won't bring in content in a full loot game like DF. Negative feedback at this point is coming from pure wolves, its time they think outside of this if they truly want to bring in an actual fresh player base.

    It wouldn't make a difference if they did all that. You would end up fighting the same people over and over, and still have a super low population. The reaction I would get from friends that don't play this just from saying "dude fat loots from sea towers now! or omg housing is now awesome!, or guys guys holdings give full sets of dragon armor and a fuckin ferrari", would be comical.

    I agree. They are definitely trying to up the attraction factor without going the typical mmo route to attract the normal mmo gamer. Like I said before, full loot + skill based fps combat will drive away 99% of the gaming community plain and simple. If the wolves here are fine with population being what it is, fine with me as well. If they said they were going to go the "no more loot drop" I would be down for that too.
     
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  3. JEDIMind

    JEDIMind Frostjarl
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    Full loot is probably one of the best reasons to play this game...I still get the rush in every fight cause there's something on the line. But with that being said I go long periods of time with no fighting...so if something like this can bring more people im for it. Maybe making a PvP zone will just condense the bangers..

    If we're talking about removing full loot to increase the pop we need to look at alternative ways first.
    just basic marketing stuff can increase the pop.Every Month Neilk sees me post something about RoA on the AC FB page and each time I get at least 3-4 messaging me. Work smarter, not harder boys. Honestly just spamming FB, youtube, and other social media platforms can increase the pop at least a player a day....IF YOU DID IT.
     
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  4. ZeuZ

    ZeuZ Crypt Guard

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    The alternative to not touching this version would be to simply open a fresh server without full loot drop. I just don't think they have the funding to develop RoA without full loot and open a fresh server. I think we all know which server would be flooded with people and which server would have the same 25 lol.
     
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  5. Methodico

    Methodico Stormgraive

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    Thissssss!!!
     
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  6. kilrain

    kilrain Shadow Knight
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    You can check the history of most MMOs that have both servers and unless the population overall is large enough to sustain multiple servers the pvp servers dwindle and die.
     
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  7. Billy Lee

    Billy Lee Varangian Warthane
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    The thrill of pvp is more important to me than full loot. If toning down the losses and adding some safety is needed then I'm all for it.
     
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  8. ZeuZ

    ZeuZ Crypt Guard

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    Well that alone will tell you which route you should take if you are trying to survive as a company lol. That being said, if you guys are ok and content with it being the way it is now with a possibility off adding some players with more pve content then by all means im all for it. To bring in a healthy population then we can all agree which route has to be taken.
     
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  9. kilrain

    kilrain Shadow Knight
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    It pains me.
     
  10. ZeuZ

    ZeuZ Crypt Guard

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    Dude believe me man I know lol. RoA is last of the mohicans, one of a kind and there will never be another like it. I absolutely love the combat and the open free roam with such vast open map to run around in. With it being so empty it hurts the soul (hell im casual and I can see that) to see it like that though.

    Would I be willing to give up full loot to attract more players? At this point I would, absolutely. Obviously its no guarantee that the masses would jump in right away, but at this population it wouldn't hurt to try.
     
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  11. Fawley

    Fawley Infernal
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    Look at the history of darkfall though. It's been released like 5 times now with lots of marketing for all versions and the population dies very fats everytime. The current game does not sustain large populations for long. Marketing would just help get new blood but it would bleed like crazy still all the same.
     
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  12. JEDIMind

    JEDIMind Frostjarl
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    Kinda unfair...there were a lot of different reasons why people quit that have been fixed. Back when there were 10k people playing over half them quit cause the grind was crazy..how many of those people know the grind is less now? How many would come back? I personally do a little marketing for RoA...and if you're saying it doesn't work you're horrible wrong. On top of that this game is 10 years old...People who were 8-9 years old not gaming are now 19 years old looking for MMORPG...no good ones...and full loot games...are none. How are these people ever gonna find RoA if we don't have people out there making videos saying RoA best pvp mmo?? Only people who played Darkfall are the ones that know what it was and what it is now...legit millions of people out there looking for this game but have no way to find it.
     
  13. Fawley

    Fawley Infernal
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    The game still suffers heavily from there being absolutely zero reason to kill someone and the better player always wins and its very punishing right now for new players. It's also only catered towards the most niche of people which are hardcore pkers that want an mmo setting, don't care for older graphics, and are willing to put the time in. I think that market would open a lot more if the game changed to a more mmo item grind and less punishing deaths, especially for Blue players that don't pk because they can't or don't want to.
     
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  14. Battle Smurf

    Battle Smurf Oak Lord
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    I don't like the idea of ANY items being insured in the LAWLESS areas or PvP events.

    I don't really care what you do in lawful areas though. Generally speaking a high security area with less death penalty and or optional PvP toggle in lawful areas is a probably a good thing for population.

    I DO actually like stat loss on death down to 110 as it makes dying and killing matter more. You would just need to have a timer between stat losses where you can't lose any more due to bindcamp ect.

    You could make it a Red ONLY thing and allow blues/saints to turn in the Red's head at an NPC for a reward of 50% of the stat the red lost

    More importantly I think we need an additional item sink on gank to lower inflation like EvE has ( at least in RoA lawless areas)...


    Upon gank equipped items should have a 25%-33% chance of FULL DESTRUCTION. Nothing that remains lootable should take any additional durability damage from the gank though.

    In addition to this we need items to have their stats lowered based on durability to combat the broken risk vs reward of scroaching.

    You should NOT get the full effectiveness of a high tier item when it has so little durability, that's not fair risk vs reward.

    Then add a repair system that costs gold + some mats to repair at an NPC vendor this would act as a much needed gold sink.

    Have each repair lower the MAX durability by 10% and have lowered effectiveness start at 90% of item "base durability"

    For example base durability of a Justicebringer= 100 but higher tier crafting skills/bonuses could get that up to 150. Have damage start diminishing at 90 durability and every time you repair the JB it loses 10% max durability so that after a couple repairs it stops being worth repairing.

    I'd also consider adding a small durability hit to every item when you're killed aka knocked down. This would further nerf scroaches because hopefully if they get knocked down wearing low dura gear some of it will break so even if they're rezed they get rightfully punished.

    There should be consequences for getting killed and especially if ganked EVEN IF YOUR TEAM CLEARS THE BATTLEFIELD AND REZ/LOOT YOU.

    These penalties should ALL apply to PvE Mobs too and have certain high end mobs gank kill you

    With my proposed systems we would have a much better economy due to increased item sinks, more gold sinks from repairing, better risk vs reward ratios, scarier PvE...


    Better yet the ultimate losing side of a battle will still be able to do lasting damage to the winners, and EVERYONE, even those that win the vast majority of their fights, will have to farm a bit more because they WON'T be getting everything they need JUST from looting in PvP.

    And MORE people perpetually farming = more open world pvp potential and opportunities for territory control to actually matter.

    It's better to leave even the winningest players hungry for "good" loot because scarcity= MORE PVP CONFLICT and natural territory control.


    You make everything too abundant and easy to get and it kills your game because it leads to people not farmimg, but instead bank sitting, city dueling, and ONLY leaving for timed Village/Siege events.
     
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    #54 Battle Smurf, Jun 13, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
  15. Fawley

    Fawley Infernal
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    With my change I suggested people would have actual incentive to use good gear farming because if you died you don't garuantee lose them so the risk/reward would be balanced out where as right now its never worth farming in infernal unless your doing champions.... Maybe not even then.
     
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  16. Auron

    Auron Celestial
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    Lost stat point when you die in pvp....great incentive for pvp....please guys....lol
    --- Post updated ---
    Neilk close the discussion...please....
     
  17. Battle Smurf

    Battle Smurf Oak Lord
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    I think dying to high tier monsters should have penalties high enough that you would be borderline FORCED to wear good shit to farm them because it kept you from dying and the penalties for dying to the mob= WORSE than risking infernal and being potentially jumped by another player.


    High end PvE where dying to the mob can easily happen if you're not in the right gear and the penalty for dying to it= serious= WAY LESS BORING

    The question is what kind of PvE death penalty would work?

    Ideally you should HAVE to risk quality gear to kill quality PvE mobs period, but with the current mechanics I don't know any way to do that.

    I agree that the go to move being to farm high tier mobs in robes/ bonesets/ and blackbolts is a problem that needs solving though
     
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  18. Fawley

    Fawley Infernal
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    Black desert online has PvE and open world PVP but without risk/reward but the way they balance out PvE and PvP to an extent is adding monster damage mods to items and food etc Apart from just making weapons or enchants that help with PvE and are forced to do high end PvE but gimping your PvP is just straight up adding monster damage to every kind of weapon and that damage scales with rank. So instead of a linear rank for the PvP damage, the monster damage could be exponential where rank 0 is 0 monster damage, r10 1 MD (Monster damage), r20 3 MD, r30 7MD, r40 13MD, etc. The numbers don't matter because they can be tested and tuned correctly but I hope I got the point across.

    As for PvE death punishment, we could just add durability lost on PvE death. Or like kilrain said, Enchantments lost on death whether that's always or sometimes is up to the balancing of it.
     
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  19. kilrain

    kilrain Shadow Knight
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    I did some thinking about zones and how we can make it work with the existing world layout. I have a couple different ideas that would start people out in human lands where it would be the safest or "blue" zone if you're familiar with Albion, and the rest would vary depending on the direction we went.


    The first option sets the area surrounding the human starting area as the safest area and the remaining lawful tiles would be the next tier up.
    • blue area to be no gear drop, heavy penalty for attacking or killing a blue. Guards spawn and kill the attackers.
      • If you are involved in a village contest you are exempt from losing alignment, but in the blue area no one drops their gear. These villages would have drastically lowered and different rewards.
    • Yellow area to be tiered loot drop based on alignment. Lower penalties for killing blues, but still penalties unless they are faction or war target or have their hit protection turned off (as mentioned in a previous post). Mid tier village and event rewards.
      • Any faction warfare implemented would take place in these areas.
    • Red areas would be full loot, no penalties for any combat. Red areas would have the highest rewards for mobs, villages, etc and where all territory control and clan conquest events would take place.
      • NOTE: The red area around the middle is larger. Could be increased more than this and not affect much IMO.
    • We could keep the guard towers active in the other NPC cities, but the rules would be of the yellow area, not the blue.
    Here is a map showing the current mobs in the lawful area, minus Vlad. To me the only one requiring moving is Vlad, but of course open to suggestion. I do think this area should have ways to earn a living and keep playing, having fun. Maybe we could bring it down on more tile and give some shark spawns too.

    Current mobs in that area:


    Here is a map of the current player cities/hamlets. Good for starter clans like New or give them a different purpose.



    NPC cities and chaos stones


    Portal entrance and exits would probably need moved.


    The second idea was to make the yellow less safe and add in slightly safer areas around the old capital cities as in-between spots, but if we leave the guard towers up that might not be necessary.

    Another variation of this is having the zones Eve style, blue being heavily guarded, yellow no guards but zap towers in cities, red no protection.
     
    #59 kilrain, Jun 14, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
  20. Not_Primetime

    Not_Primetime Winterbound
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    EVERYONE in the world has said why bother playing Darkfall period! With the exception about 500 deranged people. No one wants to play this game as is. This is the 4th and final chance to resurrect this game and have a decent population, the game must change. But go head keep the game the way it is DEAD.
     
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