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Discussion: Lawful, Pvp, Full Loot

Discussion in 'Design Discussions' started by kilrain, Jun 12, 2019.

  1. Sorrow Avaritia

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    I would rather the game just die than turn into another generic care bear mmo.
     
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  2. kilrain

    kilrain Shadow Knight
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    Well then you're in luck! None of the suggestions here would do that.
     
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  3. Auron

    Auron Chosen of Khamset
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    Why the final chance ? Many dont play rise of agon for 2 reason....

    For play this game it's necessary play to many hours....

    90% of the players dont know rise of agon...

    The last idea of killrain it's not bad ...but whitout lost stat please hehe
     
  4. Battle Smurf

    Battle Smurf Oak Lord
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    I love this idea and think it could actually save the game by bringing in a ton of new players that otherwise wouldn't give RoA a chance.


    It would also consolidate us hardcore types a bit more on the islands which = more pvp


    I don't really understand the difference between your first in depth option and the shorter "EvE alternative" at the end though ?

    They sound the same? What are the differences/options I'm missing?


    Also are you sure you can even make guards work? Aventurine originally said they were going to do guards, but pulled back for some reason.

    Anyway TLDR= your original in depth option sounds great to me
     
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  5. Sorrow Avaritia

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    I didn't say I was against changes, just hope that they don't go to far.
     
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  6. Fawley

    Fawley Infernal
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    It would be very stupid to go too far because then you're becoming another WoW clone that's competing with WoW and all the other clones and we all know that's stupid and would never succeed.
    --- Post updated ---
    I think from a design point and a new player point, it's very confusing and almost counter intuitive that only mob spawns are blue areas and the surrounded areas are yellow. This basically turns it into where you would rather just die (depending on degree of risk of yellow vs blue) in a blue zone at a spawn where people might jump you rather than trying to run. After getting past the part of teaching players what the blue and yellow areas are, it's going to be harder still to teach them to basically not try to escape and that's not exactly something you want to train new players to do. They will want to learn to fight or flee later on rather than accepting their death or fighting back.

    I'm also a huge supporter of even making the red areas not 100% full loot but just a much higher loot area while also making gear worth a lot more. If say we made a single piece of gear worth the same as a full gear set is now, you could still have a average drop rate of 3 items in a red area while a villain and having 3x the risk in red areas. I'm not sure if removing alignment benefits in the massive red area is necessary. I would also like to see the center map being maybe a degree past red while obviously being very lucrative and basically the late game place to be where all the top clans are fighting over it. This would require some very obvious messages once changing zones so new players don't accidentally hop into a much more dangerous area.
     
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  7. kilrain

    kilrain Shadow Knight
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    I have to admit, I am not picking up what you're putting down here.
     
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  8. Fawley

    Fawley Infernal
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    The map you laid out for human lands is blue areas for the monster spawns surrounded by yellow areas. Which basically means you have these safe havens for players but if they try to run out of them, they start to risk more of their gear even if they are running back to the city. I think it would be easier for players to understand and make more sense for a majority of human lands to be a blue zone and only player cities and villages would be yellow zones.
     
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  9. kilrain

    kilrain Shadow Knight
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    Oh no, the spawn map just shows what spawns are within the safe area. The top most map shows a blue square. That's the safe area. I took images of the other ones to show what is currently within that square so people could be more informed of what's happening now and what might need changed. For example the mob spawns look pretty good with the exception we know Vlad is in there so he'll probably have to move. Then there's the portal entrances and exists that I would think need to go elsewhere.

    Going back and looking at it I understand why it looks confusing. The red color you see in the mob spawn is just the tile selection in the world builder lol. The blue is part of the builder and indicates the radius of the spawns.
     
  10. Fawley

    Fawley Infernal
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    Oh ok. Yeah that was my misunderstanding. I just saw the blue circles and thought that meant you were planning to just make the mob spawns blue areas lol. Yeah that makes sense now as a rough concept. Have you considered putting this topic in the announcements on discord to get more feedback/attention to this? A lot of people will be pissed if this were to happen without them being part of the discussion.
     
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  11. Auron

    Auron Chosen of Khamset
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    Make an island for new players where they can learn the game meccanics....the mobs around capital and starter city are safezone (whitout pvp ) ....make easy enchanting....and replace gear bag ....autores if you died vs mobs (only in the race territory)....message in sistem when someone enter in the spawn...add new racial skills for pve and bring back racial war....add more guard tower in the main continent...
     
  12. Dunnin

    Dunnin New Member

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    About safe zones:
    I think it's best to extend the starter city safety a little bit by placing a few more towers outside of said cities to protect goblin spawns, some gathering areas ect. Nothing extreme though. This way carebears can come play, increase pop, not become rich by being safe and cost nothing to the pvp community.

    About retaining players:
    Since you mentioned EVE online which I'm also playing, what keeps many players there is the factional warfare. That's entry level pvp. Something similar can be implemented in DF as well and would add, all sorts of interesting content for everyone. In EVE online you cannot enter these areas with Tech II ships, only Tech I. In DF that would be non mastery gear. So make towers to hit players that have mastery gear on them when entering these contested areas (either at the borders between Human - Alfars, ect.. or the outposts of each race, I'd go with the outposts since they're already there). So new players can taste pvp without getting stomped by maniacs in Infernal (not that they'll win against them anyway, but it's really not the same, you get the point).

    About Stat loss:
    Eeeeh NO, generally! Maybe if you have the highest tier gear and you die, then you lose stats, that would be exciting :D )
     
    #72 Dunnin, Jun 15, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2019
  13. Methodico

    Methodico Infernal

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    No stat loss please
     
  14. Oresmacker

    Oresmacker Obsidian Golem
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    I am not against safe zones at all. We really do need them. Yes, vets will run to them when they don’t want to fight or are running from a zerg.. it kinda happens anyways with blue cities.

    I really think we need a noob island or whatever like I have seen mentioned. That would go a long way especially with a turtorial added of some sort.

    I wouldn’t put any rare material mobs or anything over Q2-3? In the zone. People think that safe zone farming is super bad, but in reality they might make a good chunk of cash at first but those mobs will eventually be over farmed and the prices should drop dramatically and the only good use for those materials will be for getting a decent gear bag made or crafting like it should be.

    As far as alignment goes- a huge overhaul should be implemented. Not sure exactly how to or what to implement to make it right but it’s just in a oh it’s fine I’ll play my alt stage.

    Full loot is something in darkfall I wouldn’t change. I played a game called Gloria Victus before coming over to darkfall RoA when it was in beta. Their loot system was based on tiers kinda, like you have so many seconds to loot a player once they die. The higher the tier weapon or armor piece- once looted took more seconds away from the grave closing, for example if you had 30 seconds left and you looted a nice chest it dropped to 5 seconds before the grave was locked. But what this resulted in was everyone looted a chest piece and a weapon because those was the most expensive.
    Maybe something like this would work in certain areas for new players. But I would leave the unlawful areas the way DF has always been.

    Sorry for the blob of texts I’m at work and can’t make it look pretty for y’all.
     
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  15. soulpcbr

    soulpcbr Infernal

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    I think all areas should be lawful. However close places of towns in Siege should be lawless. Who kills player should be pk. And whoever pk has to take the consequences of it. Nearby areas of the starting cities should mark pk on the map. This will cause people to fight the pk in these areas. And the newbies will escape.
     
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  16. Fawley

    Fawley Infernal
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    I think it's a bit naive to think the players will self regulating themselves even if there's icons on the map for all players to see. Especially with the current player population count and especially with the demograph of the current players. If the game got a massive population surge of newer players somehow? Sure maybe but I don't see how that's ever going to happen, even if a top streamer on twitch was promoting RoA in it's current state.

    I do agree however that all player killing should be considered a PK outside of Sieges, Villages, and Sea Towers where the goal is PVP and it's at a specific location for a specific time. I don't however disagree with an area that is 24/7 lawless for players to always go fight over and the game forces you to fight because there's no downside to killing players. I would pick middle map to be this location as it's always been this way. It could also possibly use a PvE buff to promote more players fighting over it but it's already a pretty high tier spot so right now I don't think it's needed.
     
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  17. Lockz

    Lockz Ghost
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    You will kill the game with the changes you're talking about, @kilrain.

    Here's why, I think it's reasonable to say that 85-90% of the player base is completely fine with losing their gear on death, the other 10% is new (being generous here). Because we know, that when we get revenge on whoever killed us we get to take all their stuff.

    With partial-drop, it'll put a bad taste in every vets mouth whenever they kill someone in any decent bag. Because we are used to taking everything, and now instead of getting to take his three keened weapons, fully enchanted helmet/chest/jewelry, we get less.

    Also unless you intend to softwipe for this, I think you'll have the reverse effect that you want. A lot of the higher end players, including nobodys like me, have bags full of infernal, enchanted cobras, and other high end gear. Currently when I go out and die, there's a consequence, if I lose 3 random pieces of my gear, not really. The point is, as a vet you'll lose some gear in a day, but if you roll with a decent crew it averages out with full loot.

    Look at this from the new player point of view as well, not the "Just spawned in at goblins, got jumped lost everything" player. But the "I have played this game for 2 weeks now, I have a bag of Q1 plate and a Q1 blackbolt. I just managed to kill someone with infernal and got a bone chestpiece." There's a huge amount of gratification that is lost in this scenario.

    I would rage quit this game immediately. That new player could have had a whole new set of gear. That would have taken him quite a while to achieve on his own, instead he gets basically nothing.

    You're trying to make the game cater to the more modern audience which is great, and I see the appeal of being able to go grind on mobs for 6 hours and not have to be worried about getting jumped. However, where are these new players going to come from? BPG has never made a significant advertising push that has gotten any real number of players in the game.

    So what happens when you push out a patch changing a major part, the loot, of why we still play this game? Half of the playerbase will leave within 2 weeks. If you do some advertising you'll have some new players login, and maybe enough to cover what you lost of your dedicated playerbase. Until they leave in a month, and the game dies until your next content patch.

    Also, STOP PUNISHING PVP. It's a pvp game.

    "Another thought that goes through my mind when it comes to full loot is we lose out on the concept of legendary items and equipment that we can work for long periods of time to obtain and use freely without worry of losing that hard work."

    You should be worried about losing that hard work, those are the kind of weapons/armor that get busted out when someone is actually worried about losing Calfardar. Not just "I have this weapon now so I run it until I die enough that RNG takes it away from me.

    "I'd like to keep this ship sailing as long as possible"
    The bulk of people aren't quitting because of gear loss. People come and go out of boredom, not finding fights. In my case "I have everything I need for when someone gets pissed off and decides it's time to server war." Gear doesn't matter already to a lot of people, partial drop will only make it matter for less people.



    So onto my suggestion
    If you want low-loot/no loot pvp just put in an arena and kill the game.

    In general I don't think loot drop needs to be changed off players. I think you need to launch territory control, introduce the new armors, and add more of the mob spawns around the map. Having 1 spawn of "Gnoll Scourge" for instance. When you release the patch and lets say the population has a huge uptick. These high-end mobs with only 1 spawn will not get farmed. They'll get camped by alts, and unless you're rolling 4 deep to blitz it down as fast as possible and get the fuck out, you'll get jumped everytime.
     
    #77 Lockz, Jun 19, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2019
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  18. Methodico

    Methodico Infernal

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    If making a bag takes 1 Min, full loot Will not a problem. And i dont speak about 1 Min farm i speak about make It in front of the bank. We have too many things to put in a ready bag, and with dyes thinghs Will be more, not good for me.
     
  19. soulpcbr

    soulpcbr Infernal

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    I've seen this happening in other games. People will not attack the pk to save others, but to get their loot. Also to enter the ranking of 10 best APK. Many people love to be APK because of Role Play and also because they want to make PVP without the consequences of being a PK. In addition to being able to stimulate these actions by placing titles such as:
    Top 10 in APK Ranking of the Month: Promoters of the order.
    Top 10 PK Rankings of the Month: Lord of the dead.
     
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  20. Fawley

    Fawley Infernal
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    These changes aren't for the current population of darkfall. You do realize that, right? It's for new and potential players. It's for players who don't have the same mind set of super competitive PvP. If you just want a PvP arena without non-pvpers then there's plenty of lobby based PvP games.
     
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