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Discussion: Patch Notes - November 13th, 2016

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by MWTaylor, Nov 13, 2016.

  1. skreww L00se

    skreww L00se Undead Dwarf
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    Thank you. Any official word on the new player experience?
     
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  2. Kras Treetall

    Kras Treetall Akathar
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    if there was a lot larger gap in cost as equipment got better, then people would be using lower end stuff more. I know that is not what y'all want to hear but it is still true. If a scale suit cost 10 times what a banded suit cost people would take the step up more serious. If plate cost 10-20 times what a scale suit costs people would consider scale not so bad. I have never liked the fact that banded is garbage. Weapons the same way. I am not suggesting this, just throwing it out there. I know people would cry too much because they would not be so nicely geared.
     
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  3. Rhuk

    Rhuk Goblin Shaman
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    Not true - the issue is the gear effectiveness, the difference between the ranks gets greater each step up the ladder (kinda exponentially). Lower end gear simply cannot complete - banded and r30 vrs plate and r50 - even the most skilled players going to have a hard time due to the inability of the r30 to do any damage and the fact the r50 cuts thru banded like paper.

    Higher cost will not drive usage of lower end gear, it would simply increase cost bar to be effective in PVP. You're just widening the gap between vets and newbie. Think of it like poker - the anti to play just got higher, the rich vets are still going to play, the poor newbie are going to be further excluded until they make the 20x more to play at the end game level.
     
    #43 Rhuk, Nov 13, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2016
  4. RagnarokDel

    RagnarokDel Frostjarl
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    That's because you dont understand what changing the persistence system represents.
    It represents the possibility of race changes, name changes, gender change, plex, and other services. It represents better logging capacity, in other words better server safety against dupers and exploiters. It might not be as evident as a slap in the face but to me, it seems like one of the most important patches since the launch of beta.

    big Asterisk on that. It's more worth it to craft low level shit for armor and weapons because of trueforge. It might level faster but it's way cheaper to craft 100 000 cloth pants then it is to craft 5 000 infernal fillers.
     
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    #44 RagnarokDel, Nov 13, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2016
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  5. Dagon Raysler

    Dagon Raysler Goblin Warrior
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    I think the crafting tweaks will further widen the power gap. The haves (large clans, but only the players "allowed" to use the city/hamlet nodes) will still be able to afford to craft the higher tier items in bulk. With player vendors in NPC cities, noobs will have even less reason to craft.
    Noobs will buy r40-r50s instead of leveling their own skill, and just further enrich the few than can afford to craft "decent" gear.
    Most of this patch was small stuff, but all of it working towards a better game. Hopefully one that we can keep around for a long time.
     
  6. Kras Treetall

    Kras Treetall Akathar
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    Everybody rushes up in gear to the point that the next level of increase is too high to use as normal gear. Same thing could be said about Plate compared to dragon, but people still use plate. If an r30 banded setup was 1000 gold, an r40 scale setup was 20,000 gold, and an r50 plate suit was 200,000 gold people would be using more than just plate and r50s. These are extreme examples, if you bash my numbers you are not getting my point.
     
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  7. Epoksy

    Epoksy New Member
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    Great patch.

    Keep up the good work!
     
  8. Rhuk

    Rhuk Goblin Shaman
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    I understand the point your trying to make, I just think your being too simplistic. To be real if the armor costs went so high everyone would simply run as hybrids in bone and a few rich players would run destroyer (cause they really like it).

    There is a bar of effective ability - gear and stats at which point you are viable to PVP - you can't move that bar thru changing the cost of gear alone. If you come to the party below that level you're ineffective. How much over the minimum cost you want to risk in terms of gear is then a choice for the player - pull out your best for a siege.

    Making it more expensive doesn't change the position of the bar, it means we all need to farm more to reach the bar. The bar is not set by cost.
     
  9. Donaddor Lightbringer

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    Yeah think the range in cost, how armors and weapons compares to one another, and maybe even how easy it is to get the materials to make a set, then the jumps of cost between each intended set, (including weapons, can leave out the regs or enchants and such) would need to be considered but the main thing is that the rares, even if its just 1 ingot, should see a decent jump in stats and ppl wouldn't want r40s when they can get that jump.

    Would only be a matter of time before people are at the r60ish state and r40's damage wouldn't be a logical option when some ppl wouldn't even want a r50 and wouldn't want to save the rare ore for damage. Then even if ur not at that state if you could manage r50 weapons you'd do more than an r40 and have a better chance to take a r60 which would be fairly common at a point, so r40s even if they need more damage shouldn't be close to r50s, r50 should still have that notable boost on r50 which is enough for r50s to be the bare minimum, so r40s and less by default will be largely obsolete. Think a mixture of encumbrance differences in sets and certain protection differences could help add more to different lower tier sets though.

    Good patch but 55% diminished returns off the bat might be a bit of a hard number but best way to know if maybe there was an example of old crafting gains and how ppl generally made a ton of one thing and the new system and just how much longer it takes and how many sets u make before the end of it, info like that. Think if more numbers on changes could be presented could help with feedback. Like if you could give us the rng on lootables and village loot tables, at base with no houses including chances of items, and at max with all houses placed.
     
    #49 Donaddor Lightbringer, Nov 13, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2016
  10. LisaL

    LisaL Stormgraive
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    I fully understand what it is, why its important, etc. I just prioritize NPE far above race, name, or gender changes. I dont think anyone who downloads the game tomorrow is going to wonder about the ability to change their name when they cant even figure out where a goblin camp is, why skinning is so fkin important, or a clear path to being viable without wasting weeks or months lost.
     
  11. mrW

    mrW Black Knight
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    By the way, do the diminishing returns only kick in for the crafting skill level or also for the stat gain (e.g. wisdom)?
     
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  12. kilrain

    kilrain Shadow Knight
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    The list of benefits is pretty long and I wont cover everything.

    • It's faster than the old - because faster is always better ;)
    • Not only is it faster, but it can be accessed at all times from anywhere. Previously if we wanted to access the old persistence from outside the game, the server would need to be down. This way we can pull information using outside programs for monitoring, support, and other. We could even, if we chose, provide access to certain things through an API for player driven websites. For those familiar with Eve this allows you to access your character, some information perhaps inventory management, city management, just about anything you can think of.
    • Adding new things is a breeze - Anything that gets added to the game that must persist through server restarts must be saved to something. With the old system adding brand new things I'll admit was a mystery. Adding to existing items required a wipe (clan banks), for instance the capital recall - in order to persist capital recall count we had to add it to MySQL instead, which isn't bad or wasn't difficult, but if we kept on we would be adding all new things to MySQL which I felt was the wrong type of DB for this task and would be slower overall.
    • Editing existing saved items - Nearly impossible from the old version, limitless with the new. We'll also be able to monitor who accesses it, who changes it, when they change it and why. (access to this will be limited)
    • Backups Anytime - right now the process of saving to persistence is grueling on the system so a process of writes is done every 20 minutes. Now we'll be able to modify it so writes for specific things, maybe everything, is done when they happen. Drop an item in the bank and boom, your backpack and bank are backed up and if the server crashes it wont roll back.
    • ... that's enough for now :)
     
  13. Grimtide

    Grimtide Evil Eye
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    great patch, villages are getting capped like crazy!
     
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  14. miasMa

    miasMa Varangian Warthane
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    One of the most important patches they could have done and you're delusional if you think otherwise.
     
  15. Lakisuria_Moonglade

    Lakisuria_Moonglade Varangian Warthane
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    I leveled most of my crafts solo to Mastery. You'll be surprised just what people are capable of when they want to be their profession.

    And I didn't utilize whatever bullshit method people deemed was "Better" I leveled the highest most cost effective item for that particular tier. For armor it's shields, for weapons it's polearms (For me anyway since I only level with two-handers) Bows are just wood and leather. That's crazy easy and crafters will make their way especially if it's the same rate as it was in beta on launch.

    As far as "Generating" gold it doesn't necessarily have to be generating profits from NPC. At least breaking even means you can spend your time appropriately to level up to mastery. After mastery is when the gold sink really comes into play. Generating currency via resources through crafting quests per se.

    If an item costed 10 wood 10 ingots and 200 gold and the average player market was 10g ea for wood and ingots the low breaking even point is 300 gold. (5g ea for wood and ingots) It covers the gold production cost while yielding a little bit of compensation for the resources provided. Whether this is done in the form of daily crafting quests, flexible bulk orders or whatever system (I had a few threads on the subject I believe detailing NPC supply demand systems for crafter progression)

    Clans should always be excluded from any debate of natural progression. No matter how you tinker it they will ALWAYS be faster. However that doesn't mean the next best wave of solo crafters won't hit the market soon enough. And once that's in place there will be a supply and demand per normal. It's just how it works.

    --

    Not to mention with vendors on their way there's a whole new market aspect coming to the game we haven't had before.
     
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  16. skreww L00se

    skreww L00se Undead Dwarf
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    Bug: When a player dies all of their gear turns to mob dropped

    Likely from these changes in the patch notes:

    • Added variance to Mob drop weapons and armor:
      • Items now have a much greater variance in durability.
      • Weapons now have a variance in damage.
      • This combination will render some mob drops useful, and others vendor-worthy.
      • This will help increase the value of crafted weapons and armor, as well as planting the seed of dynamic loot in the game.
     
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    #56 skreww L00se, Nov 13, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2016
  17. miasMa

    miasMa Varangian Warthane
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    LOL ouch
     
  18. Knar

    Knar Competition Winner
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    You can't see mastery recipes on the workbenches unless you have mastery :/
     
  19. Bloodscar

    Bloodscar Cairn Giant
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    Tested on test server and was not able to replicate this, the gear both on the player and just in the inventory remained as player crafted.
     
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  20. Lincoln Hawk

    Lincoln Hawk Fire Elemental
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    This exact same bug happened to me, with a bag I looted just before the server went down for the first time. It also happened to some scale I got crafted last night and was in my bank, which was very strange.