Welcome to the Rise of Agon Community

Create an account today to engage in discussions and community events on the Rise of Agon forums.

Embers of War expansion

Discussion in 'Design Discussions' started by Andrew, Oct 29, 2018.

  1. Animal

    Animal Eodrin
    Hero

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    Messages:
    2,093
    Likes Received:
    2,975
    The game needs to cater to the attention of the players. It would appear that none of your are keen on that concept because you only want siege warfare or you only want fair fights. You accomplish that attention garnering by covering multiple bases. You appeal to the type of granularity needed to promote the other. They aren't mutually exclusive.

    This isn't a zero sum game when trying to figure out player retention..... but you guys seem to want to believe that.

    It's statistically backed that the large majority of MMO players prefer to play solo, but want the game to be populated when doing so. Allowing players to choose when to participate in social activities, rather than forcing them, is fucking VITAL to a thriving MMO experience and population.
     
    koruun, Biceps, rats and 2 others like this.
  2. Not_Primetime

    Not_Primetime Spellgazer
    Wealthy Legend

    Joined:
    May 21, 2016
    Messages:
    473
    Likes Received:
    339
    Can't wipe in this game anymore. That option went out the window when the introduced store items and specifically GTT's. Not going to be a wipe get over it.
     
    rats likes this.
  3. Dartemiss

    Dartemiss Air Elemental
    Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2016
    Messages:
    399
    Likes Received:
    605
    I think we all just want to see Darkfall have a healthy population and have some sort of influx of new blood coming in.

    Keep all that stuff. Wipe Gold and Siege Material.

    If there are truly going to be new crafting materials/tiers of gear then the rest will take care of itself
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  4. The Red King

    The Red King Black Knight
    Loyal Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2016
    Messages:
    1,183
    Likes Received:
    1,312
    Dart, they will never wipe gold or items, if they did the game is completely over. With that said, its so easy to get shit. You can make a character in a day and earn a million gold a day easy if you worked at it.
     
    rats likes this.
  5. Battle Smurf

    Battle Smurf Oak Lord
    Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2016
    Messages:
    3,157
    Likes Received:
    3,816

    This is literally the dumbest thing I have ever read on these forums in over a decade.

    And the fact that you actually got 'likes' for it has made it abundantly clear that the dregs of this community have finally gotten so delusionaly narcissistic that they aren't even worth engaging/debating anymore

    I even know exactly where your mental disconnect is coming from and exactly how to explain to you what obvious additional mechanics need changing pre wipe/relaunch in order to prevent what your narrow mind views as the obvious inevitable outcome...

    But I have ALREADY written thousands of words worth of posts on the subject and it's not worth my time rehashing unless I actually get something out of it (the satisfaction of making you realize why you're wrong no longer cuts it)

    Ironic that the Devs named them themselves 'Big Picture Games' when they and the majority of the remaining community are so myopic and autistic about game mechanic changes

    TLDR= No shit MORE than just a wipe would need to be done to prevent the severe early game power cliffs that happened in the past. That's why I have repeatedly talked about time gated character soft/hardcapped skill/stat and crafting progression as well as economy/mob drop changes that start out low and scale over time in addition to the wipe
    --- Post updated ---
    The fact that YOU cannot see this is in and of itself a problem...

    [​IMG]
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    koruun likes this.
  6. WithoutShame

    WithoutShame Infernal
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2016
    Messages:
    571
    Likes Received:
    853
    Fresh start seasonal server, last for a couple months. Then transfer back to the main server. Who says no?
     
  7. Magos

    Magos Windlord
    Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2016
    Messages:
    284
    Likes Received:
    145
    Wrong direction for sandbox mmorpg:
    -remove gear grind, check.
    -remove need to roam to find pvp, check.
    -remove player grind, check.
    -remove all value of anything to fight over, check.
    -put all dungeons together in port room, still to come.
    -1v1 dueling arena, still to come.

    Right direction for sandbox:
    -exploration content, simple art assets
    -customization
    -lore progression
    -puzzles
    -creative ways to make players use their brains
    -polish
    -Bard skills or bonuses for solicializing ala Star Wars Galaxies
    -Drinking games
    -seriously good holiday event patches
    -etc

    Dont get me wrong wrong BPG a lot of the update sounds great and really in line with stuff I want, just going to nitpick a little on the stuff I dont like, dont take personal.
     
    NonFactor and Not_Primetime like this.
  8. koruun

    koruun Gravelord

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2016
    Messages:
    244
    Likes Received:
    358
    Its interesting to see so many people opposed to a wipe, while their main argument is that gear and skill-ups are easy to get anyways. I agree that there are strong arguments on both sides, but this is irrelevant as new players probably wont be retained easily without a wipe - as well as an extensive overhaul of the NPE. To be honest though, I'm skeptical towards their plans for the NPE, as of now they are fairly vague and so not very convincing. The impact of a no-wipe could be mitigated if the NPE is well done and stimulates enough EGC, but it could still be potentially damaging.

    Interested in hearing more thoughts from those opposed to a wipe.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    Ronin, Battle Smurf and Sero like this.
  9. nightblighter

    nightblighter Gravelord
    Patron

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2017
    Messages:
    249
    Likes Received:
    270
    To reiterate my point from earlier in this thread: If you believe a wipe is necessary on the launch of Embers of War, then 6-12 months later when the next big piece of content drops, will you want another wipe?

    How about a month later when Johnny Comelately and his 5 friends want to give the game a try, will you want a wipe so they can be on a level field with everyone else?

    When is or isn't a wipe necessary?

    What about a wipe is necessary to retain new players and, again, why isn't it also necessary every time a new player wants to join the game? Not every long term player is going to join at the Embers of War launch.
     
    rats, koruun, Sero and 1 other person like this.
  10. Sero

    Sero Gnoll Vilegaunt
    Loyal Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2016
    Messages:
    6,716
    Likes Received:
    8,903
    Valid point, but when the players returning/joining potentially outnumber the players currently playing, I think a holding wipe at the very minimum should be considered. Especially since TCS is going to be in full effect, which iirc is suppose to make hamlets obsolete.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    The Red King, Sameog and koruun like this.
  11. koruun

    koruun Gravelord

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2016
    Messages:
    244
    Likes Received:
    358
    To add on to Sero's post:
    • EoW will probably greatly change the game and its systems
    • EoW is a good marker for when BPG will consider the game marketable
    • A large influx of players would essentially act as a re-launch of sorts if they vastly outnumber the current community
    Because of these circumstances I believe a wipe should be considered as Sero said, not something to be pulled out as a general remedy. Although I do agree it would not be a good precedent to set going forward.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    Sero likes this.
  12. Shieldbreaker

    Shieldbreaker Deadeye
    Benefactor

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2016
    Messages:
    171
    Likes Received:
    178
    How are those things mutually exclusive?
     
  13. nightblighter

    nightblighter Gravelord
    Patron

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2017
    Messages:
    249
    Likes Received:
    270
    Here is where I think our difference is: I believe Embers of War is going to launch a day late, a dollar short, and to less fanfare than any of us would like. There will still be big changes and a big influx of players, but wipe or not most won't stay because most never stay.

    Then 3 months from now BPG will tease us with another expansion to launch 6 months after EoW. They will say "its going to have all new sea content, a new faction warfare system, a hellgate system, new monsters, and hey maybe we'll get this combat diversity thing right the third time. And it'll all coincide with our launch on the discord store."

    And you will be back here saying "This will probably greatly change the game and its systems. A large influx of players would essentially act as a re-launch of sorts." And there will be big changes and a big influx of players. But again most will leave and BPG will have to go back to the grindstone.

    In this situation where one "relaunch" is never the magic bullet, wiping is just a continual fuck you to anyone who shows any sign of commitment to the game. Embers of War isn't going to be the event anyone hopes it will be. That isn't a knock against BPG its just the way this has always gone. The regrowth of Rise of Agon will depend on influxes from a series of patches, not just one.

    With that said you aren't the first person to call for a wipe with a big patch to a sandbox game. I've seen people in threads about Albion and EVE say that if they launched a fresh server it would get them back in the game. Making such a statement requires zero commitment to follow through on, but it is an existing sentiment. I think BPG should be thinking about that kind of sentiment in their design of systems, such that potential players/clans don't see trying to play RoA as an intractable game of catch up against entrenched elites.
     
    The Red King, rats, Methodico and 4 others like this.
  14. onslaught

    onslaught Black Knight
    Patron

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2015
    Messages:
    1,213
    Likes Received:
    768
    This is good. BPG has a plan and ideas for what they want to implement laid out for everyone to see. This is what the game needs.

    Good job BPG!
     
    rats and Andrew like this.
  15. rats

    rats Goblin Warrior

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2017
    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    55
    The expansion sounds really good please don't even think about a bank wipe unless u want the players who are still here to quit and for this game to totally die
     
    The Red King and Not_Primetime like this.
  16. Sique

    Sique Fire Giant
    Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2015
    Messages:
    4,107
    Likes Received:
    3,226
    Looks good.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  17. Biceps

    Biceps Infernal
    Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2016
    Messages:
    565
    Likes Received:
    337
    as some1 who has played DAoC for an absurdly long amount of time and played and won more tournaments, 1v1, 5v5 and 8v8 than i can count i can confirm that the only ones ppl really cared about was the 8v8 ones. 1v1 is nice and all but especially in that game it was very much about class choice and realm rank beeing the deciding factors rather than actual player skill. some classes were outright banned from participating usually for obvious balancing reasons. this was much less of a factor in 8v8 as it was pretty much 100% playerskill based unless you have a full rr11-12 group fighting a group <rr5 but those low rank groups would very rarely attend tournaments anyway so it wasnt rly a factor.

    however in the later years of the game´s lifespan when freeshards became much more popular than the live servers there often have been implementations of duel zones or small scale FFA pvp zones with a group size cap of like 1-2 and a total player cap that you had to queue up for during peak hours that have very successfully co-existed with the regular open world pvp zone.

    this is mostly due to the nature of the game beeing focused on competitive 8v8 tho. thats the mode that kept the game alive for almost 20 years. anything else introduced to the game was a mere sidekick.
     
    MaxiHori likes this.
  18. Korag

    Korag Evil Eye
    Hero

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2016
    Messages:
    5,621
    Likes Received:
    2,416
    assuming it doesnt reach df1 numbers maybe. Otherwise it is like punching yourself in the face.
    df1 up til NA release was overcrowded, up to 8 hour q's to even play. They make the map smaller and do happen to get 8K plus players would only serve to frustrate and cause huge losses in population again..

    At launch the size of the map was perfect for the population. Fights were everywhere so the need for a smaller map is only if you plan for a much smaller player base and I do not think that is the goal with which they are attempting to fulfill
     
  19. MaxiHori

    MaxiHori Gravelord

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2017
    Messages:
    242
    Likes Received:
    180
    No grind, pvp for the sake of pvp (no pve requirement to do pvp or viceversa), you dress once and you are done, easy access to pvp (bridges before new frontiers and teleport to the closest keep after new frontiers).
    and everything it's still working on elder scroll online.
    There is a huge difference from daoc and darkfall, 8vs8 is not everything since I mostly played in a group with the same 3 people.
     
  20. Biceps

    Biceps Infernal
    Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2016
    Messages:
    565
    Likes Received:
    337
    regarding the grind it kinda depends on what era we´re talking about. the launch of toa was somewhat grindy even tho not nearly to the same extend as DFO especially at launch but getting f.e. that maddening scalars 3o3 scroll was quite the pain sometimes. in particular when you needed it for like 10 toons. also if you ever levelled spellcrafting you wouldnt say that game had no grind :D

    the instant port thing in NF had good and bad aspects. on one side it was great cos it kept downtime to a minimum, on the other hand it turned the area between the 3 front keeps into a zergling pit. ESO is kinda suffering from the same thing. in DAoC the introduction of agramon later on solved that problem tho.

    and ye you´re right there was room for all kinds of pvp in DAoC from soloing to 100 man zergs. the fact that a good 8 man could easily farm 100 zerglings helped promoting the 8man thing and eventually there was enough 8mans that the 8v8 scene developed out of it which after toa quickly became the prime aspect of pvp the game was known for.