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I got my pal to try DF.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Shieldbreaker, Aug 1, 2019.

  1. Sero

    Sero Gnoll Vilegaunt
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    Nope. But it is definitely a piece of the pie when it comes to NPE/Retention. Just read the thread: https://forums.riseofagon.com/threads/what-do-higher-levels-get-from-killing-lowbies.13895/

    Imagine if a safe zone was implemented from the get-go. People wouldn't even complain about the grind because they could work at their own pace without having to worry about maxed out toons/vets breathing down their neck.
    --- Post updated ---

    YIKES.
     
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  2. MaxiHori

    MaxiHori Gravelord

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    You can't rewind time, as the current state of the game is you are just restricting enchanting levels in blue area, which is fine by me, you are splitting noobs from vets but I never had a problem being killed by better opponent (and hit protection already save the noob in the post that you linked).
    The problem is that the gear-gap combined with enchanting doesn't even give you a chance, other than adding an additional level of grind and tedius.
    With your mechanics the gap would be smaller but the same tediusness still persists and we are kind of missing the noobs to fight against.

    And all of that work in order to preserve what? A q5 spot where vets can jump each other? That's already what this game has become...

    I mean, why people are all for an arena which would be require years to be implemented instead of removing enchanting? Rare resources and holdings will even have more value, and there is already no need for grind enchanting materials since you all already have stacked banks.
    Easy one day change and ready to go, why not?
     
    #62 MaxiHori, Aug 12, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
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  3. Sero

    Sero Gnoll Vilegaunt
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    Like I said. It's a piece of the pie.

    Removing enchanting removes: A craft, Things to do (farm/go out into the world), Gear power/value.

    It's a content creator and a game mechanic. Removing it only serves to take away from the game. You're literally the only person I've ever seen that's asked for the complete removal of it and I bet any money less than 10% of the fights you lose are due to enchants.

    Picture if the game was full of players. Each player would run around in the gear they were able to acquire/farm at a reasonable rate. You would then have a lot more players to choose to fight.

    There is no catch-all/cure-all for this game. There never will be. There is only pieces of the pie to bring it together.

    People ask for an Arena because at the moment the game is so lack lustre in content the only thing to do is farm and get jumped, run around looking for someone to farm and get jumped and zerg or be zerged. Its not fun. People will duel for HOURS. All Arena is, is a duel system that holds a palpable achievement (an Elo rating). That can be a lot of fun, and clearly what drives this game and MILLIONS of other people playing numerous other games across all genres. Not only that, but it allows a player to determine where hes at on the food chain, and fight other people who are around his level for an actual "GF."
     
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  4. kilrain

    kilrain Shadow Knight
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    The idea behind safe or safer areas is it doesn't matter how much work needs to be done to be at a competitive level in PVP because it gives you that place to be while you learn the game, develop your character :(, and build your bank. Without it people are losing it as fast as they earn it. I'll be commenting about this in my next post... if I ever complete it.
     
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  5. MaxiHori

    MaxiHori Gravelord

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    @Sero don't know what happened with my last post but I lost it. Either way enchanting sucks, everything it adds is something I don't like and that I would play without it.

    Can't see how that can work.

    - if you "develop your character" you are bringing back "character progression" which didn't work the first time (removed with the pivotal moment)

    - the only way to build your bank would be to don't fight at all, cause even in "balanced" matches you can still loose stuff. And I would be considered a vet to a noob but a noob to a vet so it's not even easy to separate noobs from vets.
    Unless ofc the blue area is really a pve-only area, in that case pvp people like me would still only have the red zone and that would mean square one again.

    All I'm saying is that there is a population that do not need any intensive developer effort and that's the casual pvp players, and you could use that population to fund your plan whatever it is and I would have a year of playing. Everyone happy.
     
  6. Sero

    Sero Gnoll Vilegaunt
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    So you want to band-aid fix the game so you can login? And then what? Since YOU feel you can play the game will be fixed?

    What happens when you reach the state where most of the vets who've played this game are? They don't care about enchanting, farming, have stacked banks. My bank is stacked. I have 4 full dragon bags, Over 10 q5 mage bags ready to go, 5 fp/infernal bags on 1 alt, 2 full inferny bags on 1 alt, 3 Full inferny bags, full fp bags... like it's stacked. The point is, I don't need to farm, I can just go out and PVP and I'm not the only one like this either, there's loads of people like this. Where are they? Logged out. Waiting for something to happen thats worth logging in for.

    Farming for equipment is something to do in this game. Its part of it.

    Been dealing with band-aid fixes for 10 years, how about we start adding some content and things to do instead of taking away things and creating an even bigger mess that we have to deal with down the road?
     
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  7. MaxiHori

    MaxiHori Gravelord

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    Well yes, I'm suggesting the cheapest way to bring back people like me. Don't know how many there are but casual pvp players feeds many free instant level shards.
    I also asked what's your plan and how long would you estimate it will take.

    Waiting for more population? I am population and I'm telling you that a day it's all it's required to bring me back. And it will only cost something it's irrelevant to you since you already have stacked banks and "don't care about enchanting".

    Agree but there has to be a limit don't you think? if you had 2 hours a day how would you spend it? If you need 2 hour to make a bag isn't too much?

    Adding content means develop content, which takes time and resources, how about we use what we have instead? Like what every free shard do and easily get over 2k players??
    That way you can use those 2k players to fund the development of "new content"
     
  8. Sero

    Sero Gnoll Vilegaunt
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    Because I don't see players coming to the forums and saying: "I'm not playing this game because I don't like enchanting." In other words, your idea won't work.

    How about you just don't enchant your gear and go PVP? Better yet, how about we take away all that and just give out free-gear?

    You do realize there was a period in this game where we've already done that right? There wasn't any enchanting in Alpha, and gear was super abundant and given freely. It died out and got old quick... and thats when a lot of people were all hyped to have Darkfall back.

    When there is no substance to an MMORPG (especially a full loot, conquest driven MMORPG ffs), it lacks reasoning to play and login, at which point you decide to just go play something else.
     
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  9. MaxiHori

    MaxiHori Gravelord

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    I do count as a player and that's what I'm saying, it works for me, I don't speak for anyone else.

    that's what I always did, but the gear-gap was just too much and I was tired of begging stuff from my mates.

    I suggested selling q3 ready bags at 1$ each, so it works for me

    Nope, there was "character progression" before, a long tedius skills/stats farm which have been removed with the pivotal moment and that's where players came back.

    Removing enchanting would add more value to rare materials, which are gained from conquest.
     
  10. Sero

    Sero Gnoll Vilegaunt
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    Oof.

    There was no character progression in Alpha. You obviously didn't play it. It was instant level 100s, chaos chests gave out R70 weapons and and you started with a billion gold. It got old. Fast.

    I doubt you're losing fights because of a gear-gap. Go back to dueling qyooti or maybe you actually do need to go farm some bags so you can get a better grasp and understanding of the game.

    Where are all those players that came back? They got bored. Even with stacked banks, They got bored. You're clearly missing the point. The game needs NEW additions. Not taking away things.
     
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    #70 Sero, Aug 13, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
  11. Battle Smurf

    Battle Smurf Oak Lord
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    You're 100% right and it's a total waste of time trying to get through to the autistic kids


    I tried for years, they don't learn.
     
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  12. MaxiHori

    MaxiHori Gravelord

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    Dude, It's not about loosing, I loose on other games too.
     
  13. Azdul

    Azdul New Member
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    Clan as a faction was not working in Shadowbane, or Mortal Online, and was not working in late DF1 once everyone was red.

    Casual clans are MUCH better off not getting any holding. Once they lose it, large percentage of players will leave - it's a fact of life. If veteran clan becomes unbeatable in sieges - they'll also start bleeding players due to boredom.

    99% of casuals will never, ever defeat your group in fair fight, but they need to have a way to improve and have fun, otherwise they'll leave. Racial / factional warfare is one of possible solutions. As a bonus, it would be too unpredictable for vets with precious gear, so casuals would compete among themselves.
     
  14. Sero

    Sero Gnoll Vilegaunt
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    Yes it was... Infact thats when it worked the best, since when you're red, the only faction you have are the greens from your clan.

    https://albiononline.com/en/home


    What you're suggesting is because the current game mechanics lack the proper structure to make it work, instead of adding the support beams, you want to tear it down and start from new. That requires more development time than TCS and Arena put together.
     
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  15. Methodico

    Methodico Stormgraive

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    I repeat new people go away because we have tedious mechanics. I Lost like 10 Friends in df for this, and i cant bring other people for the same reason, It is tedious for me too, to explain everytime all the shit things that you have to know for play this game, because It Is impossible to understand mechanics alone.
    I think that bpg have to bring like 80% of the uw changes because was good. Expecially bindings system, spell system, armors system. You speak about Albion, in Albion you have like 6 keys and full loot=full world, rust same, ark same, Loa same, Conan same. Give us choices in game (skill cap, After you make all spell useful=balance) because now we have a fake Freedom, we have only Two class and we are all forced to equipe same dresses.
     
  16. Sero

    Sero Gnoll Vilegaunt
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    Yea. Albion makes full loot and clan system work. Trying to following some fantasy of creating a faction system based on a themepark MMORPG in this game is nonsense.

    The armour/robe change was meant to give a standard MMORPG feel and look where that got us. People complaining because they won't all look the same and because they'd have to fucking farm for it. Like wtf? The change would balance out armour set cost and other than that is only suppose to be visual/aesthetic and people complained. I mean some of those robes look pretty cool, it doesn't bother me in the slightest that I'd be a hooded death machine running around pushing melee.

    People have thrown around ideas to make the spell schools cookie cutters to the point where it would be practically the same combat as now, but with quirks on each spell school. I'm pretty sure people are still for specializations... but nothing can be done to bindings without changing around combat since they go hand in hand, and look at where combat changes have got us.

    A lot has been done to bindings to make them 10x more accessible than DFO however. The problem here, is you are the one explaining it to them, and trying to rush them to PVP viability. Its an unnatural game progression that takes a new player and expects them to completely understand the game as if they were a 10 year vet. People need to stop with that shit. The game needs to naturally develop a player to understand and use his abilities to kill shit. Vet handholding rarely ever works.

    Tutorials, quests, guidance, safe areas, places and content that let new players learn the game and let them figure it out on their own.
     
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  17. MaxiHori

    MaxiHori Gravelord

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    Once they learned how to play they will quit like everyone else.
     
  18. Methodico

    Methodico Stormgraive

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    Yeah true, an example for me about changes Is to make rays different with different unique skills, then you choose One and you can cast It with the same Speed of rays now. So the combat remain at same Speed, you dont have to bind 10 rays to a Key and there Will be differeces between players.
    --- Post updated ---
    So you ask me to not play with my Friends, and when they ask me something like "how to do this?" I have to say "play It and understand It!" Then they quit because It Is an old game, a punch in the Eye for new players. All people that play this game are old players that makes the meta 15 years ago, this Is why they still play, because they have not to understand the game (like me).
     
  19. Sero

    Sero Gnoll Vilegaunt
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    Yea... because we need content lmfao.
    --- Post updated ---
    No... I'm saying that your friend shouldn't need to ask you "how to do this" because the game should teach him. At the moment it doesn't, so you're stuck teaching him.

    The point I'm making is if a new player comes to this game currently, no amount of veteran hand holding will ensure he stays. In Rise of Agon's current form, it takes a specific type of person to stick with it, and that type of person will stick with it regardless of handholding.

    If your friend had some engaging quests/objectives to strive for, or say he likes the look of a streamer fighting in a duel arena, or maybe he thinks a massive siege battle would be fun to participate in, he might be more inclined to stick with it. Like I said. 1 piece of the many pieced pie.
     
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  20. Slayven

    Slayven Eodrin
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    We just need more task and dyes..u know content.
    May be a robe or two.
    Fucking clueless.
     
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