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I have serious doubts about the removal of portal chambers in cities.

Discussion in 'Game Design Discussion' started by RootedOak, Jul 20, 2016.

  1. RootedOak

    RootedOak Oak Lord
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    I'm very concerned to see how the game operates without Portal Chambers in Player Cities. I'm not demanding the game stay the same at this point, but just at first glance it seems problematic.

    Most importantly, we probably won't even get a full picture of what it would be like at launch. This became clear to me in alpha. In alpha, the game didn't operate realistically at all. No one cared about anything at all. Hopefully the simulated launch, the beta, will help push the world metagame more toward a realistic functioning state. However, I really think we won't see the real truth in the Portal Chamber change until much later.
     
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  2. Mr Planters

    Mr Planters Goblin Scout

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    IMO it'll help combat the "permanently empty city used only as a portal" plague. From what I gathered portals will still be in game but in the wilderness instead, I think that's a much better idea. Instant travel shouldn't be that easy to accomplish and portal chambers in the wild will be contested and surveilled. That's a good thing imo.
     
  3. apophis

    apophis Goblin Warlord
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    i'm pretty hopeful about it. low quality holdings should be held by low quality/newly formed clans. portal chambers perhaps gave too much incentive for powerful clans to have an absurd number of holdings that they would only occasionally travel to.

    but y'know i was pretty hopeful about unholy wars too, just gotta try it out to judge it effectively
     
    #3 apophis, Jul 20, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2016
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  4. Mc Nasty

    Mc Nasty Obsidian Golem
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    I think having portals in cities does more harm then good. It's sweet to get that arena style insta action when players hit your city but it leaves so many dead holdings throughout the world.

    Dead holdings have always been a huge problem. It sounds care bear but I am for a holding tax on any clan that has more than 1 city, hamlets are excluded. 1city is free but every owned city after that should multiple the tax.

    Best holdings will be fought over and the lesser clans can fight over the rest without being pushed to the npc city by greedy zergs. If a Zerg can support the tax than play to crush if not it will stop half the map from being unpopulated.
     
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  5. RootedOak

    RootedOak Oak Lord
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    I don't want to go into a long detailed diatribe about my thoughts on the matter before I see how these portal networks work, but I'm concerned that the "dead holding" problem that the system is supposed to help will be the opposite.

    Chaos cities will definitely be more attractive, and with every station in every hamlet some cities that were bad but useful for the stations might go completely unused. Throw in taxes like you suggested and you might see more than half of all holdings empty since they wouldn't provide any benefit to hold. With taxes on holdings the game would be even more population dependent than ever before.
     
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  6. Sero

    Sero Menhir Sentinal
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    I agree. I have this concern as well. This is why we need to push for incentives towards map control. Tangible incentives.

    Something tangible that will make clans go: Yea we need that.
     
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  7. Myater

    Myater Cairn Giant
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    Honestly it'll just lower the amount of PvP happening in certain areas because people can't port there. Reason is that the "best clans" will always go after more and more holdings in every area of the map so they have a network. Yes their network won't be connected by a port but it's a safe place for them to be if they happen to go over there to farm specific mobs. Removing portal chambers just makes life harder for players to move around and also make the world feel more dead when you're raiding cities. Just like in DFUW, only specific cities always had people and everyone would know this and never go to the ones not on the list because it was a waste of time. In DFUW there were no portals in cities and people still owned shit all over the place because location is everything. Not many of the "best clans" will siege everything in 1 area because they want the PvP there so they'll take 1-2 holdings in that area and then take some in other places as always. Only the Zergs (not a bad thing btw) normally tried to siege every holding in an area because they wanted it safer for their noobs. It'll just be like in DFUW where people will camp portal chambers for their PvP which gets boring because you're either jumping poeple not ready, getting jumped not ready, zerged, or zerging.
     
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    #7 Myater, Jul 20, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2016
  8. RootedOak

    RootedOak Oak Lord
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    Don't forget that there was no reason to own one holding over another in DFUW. So it's irrelevant.
     
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  9. Myater

    Myater Cairn Giant
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    Location just like in DFO. Only other difference is the mines and even then good players just raided holdings early and took them all. In DFUW holding location was relevant to the Portal Chambers so you will see that again if they remove chambers. So once again holdings away from chambers will be 100% useless unless it has a mine (Just like UW) so you can't say it's irrelevant lol. For instance, Defiance had 12 holdings at one point in DFUW all over the place. All of which were either mine holdings, perk holdings that were OP ones, or near portal chambers. Then we all just lived in 1 holding and didn't use the other ones unless we were farming. If people raided them we laughed every time because everyone knew where we lived and yet still raid our pointless locations. We sieged for the PvP (which is enough reason for me personally to siege) and we wanted to win. But I want there to be more reasons for holdings other than "Oh well, it has a mine and it's somewhat safe!". In city portal networks makes literally every holding on the map valuable no matter what because you can always have access to it. And honestly, this attempt of making it more of a territory control game where you want to have all your holdings in 1 area is kinda lame because you eliminate the PvP in the area which is the whole point of the game if you succeed in taking an entire area. And even then the top clans will just own everything in the best spot instead of how it is in it's current format where the good clans would just take 1 and be ok with it because there were other valuable things out there.
     
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    #9 Myater, Jul 21, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2016
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  10. RootedOak

    RootedOak Oak Lord
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    I think these five paragraphs that are merged into one hard to read paragraph point to my thoughts on not trusting the wilderness portal chamber system.
     
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  11. Myater

    Myater Cairn Giant
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    Lol it's a forums I don't really care enough to split it up, if you care for anothers opinions in a thread you started you can read it if not you don't need to reply. I never agrued your point was not valid but you saying you don't trust them is something I agree with and I just pointed things out that would say the city portal chambers are much better because they add more to the game than the wilderness ones. Was just elaborating. Sheesh if it makes you feel better I'll just change them all to "." so no1 has to read them!
     
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  12. Andrew

    Andrew Eodrin
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    The portal network is mapped out and we have a new portal for it being completed by one of our artists(Rock on Adam!). It however isn't placed and will be some time to go in. For the start of beta we're leaving portal chambers in holdings as they were but they won't be forever. Enjoy it for now :)
     
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  13. RootedOak

    RootedOak Oak Lord
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    Haha, I liked what you said, but if you could just press Enter every once and a while...
    --- Post updated ---
    Like I said I'm willing to try it, but I've got a feeling...
     
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  14. Myater

    Myater Cairn Giant
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    There's an enter button on the keyboard? WHERE?
     
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  15. NonFactor

    NonFactor Forest Golem
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    Obviously wilderness chambers will hurt sheeps even more.

    These chambers will be camped for vets and sheeps will die every fuckin time he try use that.

    If all u guys are thinking correctly we need to agree game needs a decent population so... game needs to be more noob friendly.

    Everything we're suggesting here is always thinking as a vet never as a noob. (Game requires an alignment!)

    We need to decide clearly if we wants to play a deathmatch arena again or a mmorpg with some fps aspects.

    As a vet i dont wanna win again in a dead game.
     
    #15 NonFactor, Jul 27, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2016
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  16. Garou Lintermittent

    Garou Lintermittent Goblin Shaman
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    Yeah, I think vets have better stuff to do than camping a wilderness portal chamber like you know, snorting cocaine off the leenspar golem's back or something.

    In DF1, I would routinely use another clan's portal chamber, and I've never been intercepted. If people didn't care about protecting their portal chambers when they were in their own holding, why would you think they would camp them in the wilderness? Silly waste of time.
     
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  17. NonFactor

    NonFactor Forest Golem
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    Oh lord, U really believe ppl will not camp that?

    Ill repeat the main subject of my post. If u wants a populated game u need to give some love for noobs.

    We're vets, game is basically easy for us.
     
  18. DestLocke

    DestLocke Chosen of Khamset
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    The goal of a wilderness portal network is and always has been to create more organic encounters by getting more players out into the world. We will monitor of course and fill in gaps for areas missing some sort of portal value as the game progresses. Exploring and discovering all the portals will be a thing, and some will not be obvious or easy to find. I do agree though it will be somewhat challenging to fully test the effects of such a change in beta but this is a change I feel strongly about seeing through and we will do just that.
     
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  19. Quin Tessence

    Quin Tessence Black Knight
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    You guys should add a chaos portal chamber that teleport you anywhere in Agon but turns you into a player control monster!
     
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  20. dragula

    dragula Gravelord
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    I feel that the city portal = dead holdings theory is a load of crap. Dead holdings are a result of lack of population combined with the fact that some holdings are inherently less useful. Solve these latter two issues and you won't have dead holdings regardless of where the portals are.
     
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