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I need help understanding something

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by yogrrt, Jul 7, 2017.

  1. TryHard

    TryHard Varangian Warthane
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    Not being ganked does not meen he was safe, how can you be so blind..... Not being able to be attacked and not being attacked when it is a possibility are different....
     
  2. euseka

    euseka Goblin Warrior

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    Are you being serious or just being a dumb fuck again? Because this literally has no impact on the game. There's infinite ways to get around the awesome "DANGER CRAFTING" we have at the moment. It would literally only help noobs.
     
  3. TryHard

    TryHard Varangian Warthane
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    So put a tutorial to tell newbs not to carry their bank on them???? Lol why waste dev time actually changing the city.... this is a small company and they already have a huge pile of work to do.
     
  4. Ron Mexico

    Ron Mexico Fire Elemental
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    Just be aware you can be killed anywhere at any time. Ganking newbs crafting isn't ideal, but many people who play this game are bad guys and the sooner a newb learns that lesson the better. It should only take one blue city gank, trade gank, etc. for someone to correct their behavior. I noticed it is a lot of the newbie friendly clans who are doing this sort of thing anyway through proxy alt clans. You don't even need to be dagger ganked by 4 guys or war deced to die, you can flat out be sniped by someone out of tower range with a spotter.
     
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  5. euseka

    euseka Goblin Warrior

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    First point: moot point, if craft ganking was a genuinely significant part of the siege metagame then they'd easily find a way around it.

    Second point: bad design, it has no bearing on the discussion
     
  6. STDIO

    STDIO Gravelord
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    You're ignoring my point. Vets aren't even being affected by the whole danger zone shit, because they're taking that into account and just not letting themselves get ganked while crafting, at hardly any inconvenience to them. Just means they bank more often.

    The only people being affected by this danger mechanic are newbs who don't know any better and are much more likely to quit because of it. I'm sure you like that because you seem to hate new players, but that's definitely not helping the longevity of the game.
     
  7. yogrrt

    yogrrt Deadeye
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    Woah thats pretty insane lol
     
  8. TryHard

    TryHard Varangian Warthane
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    Just because Rawr didnt die doesn't meen he was safe, thats my point. If you think that crafting in town is what is messing with new player retention you are simply misguided. I would say less then 10 people have ever quit due to craft ganking meenwhile thousands have quit due to other glaring issues like the server stability.

    You are asking for developer time to be wasted because 1 of every 20 noobs MAY be ganked while crafting? That is the bottom line. The game is advertised as full loot, perhaps we need a tutorial to tell players DONT TAKE ALL UR ITEMS WITH YOU but we dont need the game to be altered code wise.
     
  9. Scrappy_Doo

    Scrappy_Doo Goblin Shaman

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    I use to funhaulk kidnap afk crafters in NPC cities...take them to my wood shed and video tape them.....I mean gank them.
     
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  10. Rawr

    Rawr Chosen of Khamset

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    No it's not moot. Ganking a siege force is very much possible and if you see their crafter sitting in town at a crafting table for 20 freaking minutes hammering on the anvil you know something is up.

    Second point - education is important, what happens when people leave safezones and move to player holdings and craft with their entire bag on them? They are so used to being 100% safe then they get ganked once they are done.
     
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  11. Ledwulf

    Ledwulf Deadeye
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    This is exact reason why I was proposing that looting a blue players grave should mark you as grey.

    And better new players tutorial of course.
     
  12. euseka

    euseka Goblin Warrior

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    What's your expectation of this game? Like you say you're okay with 1 in 20 noobs being craft ganked... if this game is ever to be a success that is a massive amount of people. Do you not understand that you NEED to attract and retain new players if this game is going to survive. In the long run reducing the opportunities for people to be toxic to noobs in general is a massively positive thing. If that makes griefers quit then that's a positive for the game in the long run. They'll have plenty of opportunities down the line to lose all their shit in unwinnable fight after unwinnable fight which will only get worse as time progresses, let them learn the painful lessons in that time.
     
  13. TryHard

    TryHard Varangian Warthane
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    Learn to read I did not say I am ok with 1 in 20 newbs being craft killed. I said that he is advocating devloper time to be spent on something that MAY have 1 in 20 killed if that.....

    There are hundreds of new players who never go through this because they simply dont take their entire bank into their bag and walk around slow encumbered, and you want to waste valuable dev time on it?

    I agreed that there should be something in the turotial to teach players that this is a full loot game and you are safe nowhere. I am pretty sure DF1 had something that said you are safe nowhere and I always knew this.
     
  14. euseka

    euseka Goblin Warrior

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    Yea man, and when did you ever do this? Like I said, if it actually became part of the siege metagame then they will take that little bit of extra caution and craft safely. Or detag and craft safer somewhere. You can't seriously believe this is relevant except in the tiniest of edge cases.

    Wat? You gave out about siege stones being able to be placed in safe zones. That's just shitty design on the developers part. The tangent you're going off on there is just ridiculous. People are aware that the game is a full loot environment, what's not intuitive is that you can be griefed and have your shit taken while supposedly under the protection of the city's towers.
     
  15. Goblin Archer

    Goblin Archer New Member

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    How do they know the towers protect them? If they've seen people get zapped, then they know they don't die instantly and thus could still attack for awhile... If they haven't see that then they don't know they are protected and then wouldn't bring their bag?
     
  16. Rawr

    Rawr Chosen of Khamset

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    UW most notibly there was a safe zone around every npc city. There was a siege force that camped inside of the safe zone just out of reach of the defenders, with a siege stone inside of it. People who sieged I think Darkmoore at the time was right outside the border of the safe zone, would ralley their entire siege force inside of it, where they were 100% protected until it was time to move. Nobody could do anything to them basically.

    No it's not some ridiculous tangent this is the history which you seem to be ignoring. That's what happens when you put in complete safezones.

    Being killed is NOT griefing. Towers are NOT pure safety, they are there to protect you from REDS not from other players. You can ignore that all you want but that was what they were designed for, and they have been buffed to 2-shot people. In old DFO, it was 10-15 shots to kill someone within an npc city. Tradeganking was STILL rare as hell, same with ganking a crafter inside of a city.

    The game doesn't need to be safer, people should just be smarter, and educated as such.
     
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  17. euseka

    euseka Goblin Warrior

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    So developer time excluded it would be a good idea?

    Valid points but the specifics are all game design issues, not black and white it's good or bad issues. Like anything implemented in a game some thought would have to be put in as to how it's done. It need not even be every city, only a couple near each starter location where it could be plainly evident they're protected. You're correct that being killed isn't griefing. But are you saying that and trying to argue that suicide ganking is not griefing? And if so then what is the logical benefit to the game to allowing it to remain in the game?

    I understand that keeping the game hardcore etc is the spirit of Darkfall but at the end of the day games like these are not common in todays gaming. Lessening the learning curve while keeping the cutthroat nature of the wilderness would be a good thing in general. At the end of the day there's a few questions to be asked:

    Does it make the game more pleasant for new players to learn the world?

    Does it discourage toxic behaviour?

    Does it hinder the experience of endgame players?

    In this case I think the answers are yes, yes and no. Honestly I don't give credibility to the necessity to keep crafting dangerous for the siege reasons you gave. There's other ways of preventing the problems you describe that don't involve allowing this crap to go on in noob areas. Also this isn't a solve all obviously, nor should it be the ultimate priority of the game but in the long run changes like these would be positive, in my opinion.
     
  18. Slayven

    Slayven Eodrin
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    Ya a lot of educated grammar police around here
     
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  19. Rawr

    Rawr Chosen of Khamset

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    There should be a newbie island added to the game, beyond the first 24 hours, where the core game mechanics are beaten into you as with the nature of the game, the ideas of loss and risk are outlined.

    Towers for example would be one of the core elements which would tell you that if you are red, they are scary, but they won't protect you everywhere, and they won't always protect you from being killed.

    It would also give people access to newbie spawns, for all the starter tasks that you can get them done.

    I would also see that there be iron/trees/rocks/fishing nodes that never run out, but basically give you garbage to just trigger the tasks, to prevent abuse such as people macroing on them, to just get unlimited iron/tree/fish/herbs.

    And this idea would take a great deal of time to come about, and has been discussed. It would be very helpful for new players to be able to have such an in-depth type thing to step people through, and really get them to face some harsh realities. (Add a free trial which locks them to the island and you're set) Once you leave the island, other than medpoints and rewards you gained from tasks you picked up while you were on the island, are wiped (no bank on the island), again to prevent abuse.

    ----

    Has been brought up before many times, but it's a huge amount of development time to do such a thing, so until then it's on us (the community) to help educate people that the game is punishing, lessons are going to come often, and will be VERY painful.
     
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  20. TryHard

    TryHard Varangian Warthane
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    Absolutely. I myself have stated that NPC cities should have towers removed and be a no damage zone. Then you need to limit the item levels you can craft there, ie not above bone armor etc etc

    Towers were a horrible design and make the alignment system broken.

    Removing them would greatly increase the quality of the alignment system. It allows you to actually see reds and know who to avoid, it does create a small "wilds line" pvp situation and thats why the first company avoided it. But if you made the line where damage can be done large enough it gives players the ability to not be stalked right outside town.

    IE the line for damage being allowed would be a 3 mile radius around sanguine, it allows you to go north south east or west to choose where you will cross the "PvP line" and stops some potential stalking.