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Initial Alignment Changes

Discussion in 'Game Design Discussion' started by MWTaylor, Aug 23, 2016.

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  1. MWTaylor

    MWTaylor Black Knight
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    A Meaningful Alignment System is one of the first larger projects that we are tackling as a team. The following are some initial changes that are currently in development:

    Alignment Dungeons

    • Most dungeons on central Agon will be included
    • Racial starter dungeons will not be included
    • The center demon dungeon will also not be included
    • Monsters inside will provide alignment gain upon killing them based on difficulty (will be split amongst party members)
    There was a need to provide players a better way to gain alignment back other than the current church mechanic, and we decided that killing monsters would be a good way to get people to actively do so. Our initial implementation of this will include the dungeons around the mainland (with some exceptions) and the alignment gained will be based on mob difficulty.

    Alignment Titles
    • "Villain" title to be attainable by players that remain very negatively aligned for 2 weeks
    • "Saint" title to be attainable by players that remain at the highest possible alignment for 2 weeks
    • These alignment titles will not be usable if you no longer qualify for them
    This is one of our first steps to rewarding players for being positively aligned and negatively aligned. It also lays the foundation to rewarding players with more titles in other parts of the game.

    Alignment Color Changes
    • Names of players that are not Allied will now display a wider range of colors to display their alignment
    • Negatively aligned players will be displayed from red to an orange/yellow
    • Positively aligned players will be displayed from a purple and shift towards the bright blue you are familiar with
    • A player that has attained the Saint title will also have their name changed to white to further display that
    • Players that are temporarily flagged as rogue will now have a symbol next to their name displaying such
    Right now it is very difficult to tell whether or not another player is likely to attack and kill you if they are an allied race. These changes should help provide players the ability to quickly determine if they should fight, flee, or say hello to their new friend and are the first steps towards enhancing the alignment system in game.

    Please raise any questions, comments, or concerns about these changes in this thread as we will be monitoring for feedback to make Darkfall better.
     
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  2. Hekkr

    Hekkr Deadeye
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    How much alignment are we talking about here per mob?
     
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  3. Fawley

    Fawley Infernal
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    The amount is subject to change based on feedback and testing. We want it to feel a lot more rewarding that the churches but not quick enough that you could get 100% alignment after a trip or two of grinding.
     
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  4. Quin Tessence

    Quin Tessence Black Knight
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    I love the idea, but you need to look into adding a block on Saint title if they are in a ARAC guild because I have helped in killing about 10 blues and have never taken a hit just because i know when to stop.

    Not a huge problem, but a lot of people get rubbed the wrong way if they see a symbol of pure good teamed up with a Red


    Add: Also you might need to block the given title from showing up in character names like "GM Kira" wouldn't be possible to make
     
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    #4 Quin Tessence, Aug 23, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2016
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  5. Incanuth Archbane

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    Am I correct in understanding that positively aligned players begin with a purple name and shift to blue, or is it the other way around? The wording could be taken to mean either. I think it would be better to have players start as blue and shift to purple as they go more positive.
     
  6. JasonDark

    JasonDark Skeleton Archer
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    I think it will be really interesting what is the consequence of a kill+gank - how long do you need to "grind pve" to be "good" again?
     
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  7. Fawley

    Fawley Infernal
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    You raise a good point. The ability to team up with reds while in an ARAC clan or in no clan at all doesn't change though. Those are just structures in the game but doesn't force who can fight. The easiest solution might be to just stop ARAC clan members not able to gain the saint title.

    At 0 alignment you will have a purple name which will slowly shift to a brighter blue as your alignment increases. New players do start at +200 alignment though so you would start with a darker blue colour.
     
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  8. Fengor

    Fengor Eodrin

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    So If Im at 0 alignment, then a man has no name?
     
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  9. Fawley

    Fawley Infernal
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    A girl also has no name.
     
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  10. MADtheMADDEST

    MADtheMADDEST Competition Winner
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    This will be the first time a Turd becomes a saint...yes
     
  11. Nat

    Nat Shadow Knight
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    Maybe party kills should count against alignment for everyone in that party, if they kill a blue. Perhaps a bit too unforgiving but something should be considered. There has been a lot of ARAC action with racial enemy 'last hitters' being a thing.
     
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  12. Vic

    Vic Spellgazer
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    So if negatively aligned players have orange in the spectrum, will that be like a dull orange? I am thinking about clans at war, their names are bright orange right. Just wanted to make sure the colours are distinct enough for people not to make mistakes on that.
     
  13. Aristos Giannes

    Aristos Giannes Cairn Giant
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    Will there be any explanation in the lore as to why killing mobs would give you positive alignment? Or am I the only one who enjoys a side of roleplay with my peeveepee
     
  14. streaml1ne

    streaml1ne Wildtribe Mage
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    One thing related to ALL of this that's needed sorely. Very Very good documentation (in-game or out) about the alignment system for new players to look at so there's no mistaking the situations they'll run into and when it's ok to fight or heal or whatever. We've had alot of questions in our guild by players new to the system about what's ok and what's not. Also, how will getting into a fight but not getting the last hit factor into alignment? If there's alignment loss per damage or something (very small, obviously) that would make dungeon alignment increasing more of a thing that people would want to do perhaps. Will alignment reflect you beating the crap out of someone but your red teammate putting the bullet in the persons head or not?
     
  15. Mighty

    Mighty Skeleton Archer
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    That brings up a great point, maybe it should be, On death the % of dmg that player does effects this much alignment, rather then the blame going to the one who gets the last hit.

    It could even account for, if player X is in combat and you healed him for % amount while he attacked a blue you also lose alignment or something similar.
     
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  16. aparks

    aparks Obsidian Golem
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    Dungeons should become lawless zones than. Would be fucked to farm them for alignment but constantly have to kill blues also
    Making you more red
     
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  17. Jayro

    Jayro Goblin Shaman
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    I like where you are going with these ideas for a new alignment system, it is definitely badly need of some changes. In my opinion Ultima Online had the best alignment system for dealing with murderers.


    In the old Darkfall, the only reason I ever went blue was to go to the racial capital city to use the barbershop NPC. As a human, I found it almost impossible to stay blue. I didn't go camp the goblin spawns looking for new players to slaughter. It just worked out that lots of people I killed were humans/dwarf/elf so I inevitably went red whenever we had sieges or our city got raided.


    I think the most important thing to take into consideration when changing the alignment system is to consider situations where consentual PVP happens and remove alignment loss from those events. (Sieges/City Raiding/Sea Towers)


    If someone raids a player city, they should automatically go rogue to anyone in the defending guild or allied to them. The city defenders need to be able to kill/gank anyone in their own city without losing alignment.

    If you are in a siege and defending your own city and a random clan allied to your enemy shows up with blue players you should not lose alignment by killing them. Sieges need to be alignment free zones, new players know sieges are going to be dangerous. Allowing people to defend their city without losing alignment is important for any new system to work properly. The area around the siege stones and the city need to be free from alignment loss for the duration of the siege.

    If someone who is blue attacks you they should become flagged as rogue for 2 minutes, and when you kill/gank them you should not lose alignment. They should have to drop out of combat for 2 minutes to lose their rogue status.


    The current system is definitely broken, as it stands right now a blue's first hit turns them rogue for a few seconds. If someone retaliates after a couple of seconds they become the aggressor allowing people to grief you way too easily.

    You should be able to flag yourself temporarily rogue so people can have consentual pvp without alignment loss.


    Things You Should Go Rogue For:

    • Attacking obviously, and if friendly blues are around, if any of them heals the rogue they also go rogue.
    • Looting someone else's grave that is blue (would need to make the words of the name on the grave match the color of the person who it belongs to Blue/Grey/Red)
    • Looting someone else with positive alignment's monster kill (If someone loots a mob you killed, you should be free to attack them)
    • Entering any player city held by another clan that isn't allied to you (Anyone allied to the guild who owns the city should have the same right to kill intruders as the ones who own the city)
    • If healing mobs were possible that should turn you rogue, but it isn't. thank you BPG
    • Casting any spell on another blue besides heal other, sacrifice, or lay on hands. (basically prevents griefers from stormblasting you away from the bank when overburdened) If they do so, they should open themselves up to be killed without losing alignment.
    • Being near a sea tower

    The city guard towers already zap you for some of the stuff on my list, they should also zap anyone who tries to run to town while rogue. You should have to be out of combat for 2 minutes to lose your rogue status.


    It is also important that they implement a dueling system so people can practice on eachother, or people not in their own guild without losing alignment.

    P.S. It is really dumb when I recall back to town from a "lawless area" and get zapped by the guard tower for a few seconds after loading in. I am assuming this will be getting changed with the alignment system?
     
    #17 Jayro, Aug 24, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2016
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  18. RagnarokDel

    RagnarokDel Frostjarl
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    I think it's a good idea but I dont think it should be too many dungeons.

    I would also like to see specific dungeons farm alignment for specific races.
    Example: I dont see why the alfars would allow you to redeem yourself by going to farm the Hardruk dungeon in Ork Lands. There's no reasons for alfars to give a damn about that but the Saenal Dungeon is a potential threat.
     
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    #18 RagnarokDel, Aug 24, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2016
  19. Hekkr

    Hekkr Deadeye
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    There should be some cycle for the dungeons which you can farm back Alignment, if you choose to go red and want to turn blue you should work for it.
     
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  20. Neilk

    Neilk Web Development & System Admin
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    It's not going to be easy whatsoever.
     
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