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Just a few ideas

Discussion in 'Game Design Discussion' started by ArrowExpert, Jul 28, 2017.

  1. breakqop

    breakqop Crypt Guard

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    stacking WoFs + tAoEs is and has always been ridiculous, and getting chain blinded or knocked up just plain sucks. it's stuff that greatly favors the side with numbers, to the point that it gets overwhelming (unless you're fighting zergs of newbies -- we shouldn't make combat changes based on how newbs play)
     
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  2. Sero

    Sero Menhir Sentinal
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    Stacking WoFs/AoEs is the only way to hold a choke in this game. Getting rid of that just makes it a total push to win zergfest.
     
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  3. breakqop

    breakqop Crypt Guard

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    i don't understand how holding a choke with stacked WoFs and AoEs is quality group play. even the most uncoordinated zerg blob can hold a choke. plus, it's insanely boring -- been there, done that in df1 and it made sieging certain holdings a shitty experience for both sides
     
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  4. Sero

    Sero Menhir Sentinal
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    Because its the only counter to: "PUSH AND OVERWHELM THEM WITH NUMBERS"

    how is that quality play? It's not hard to send in 3 to 1 odds with noobs meleeing people down.

    At least a PROPER chaining of WoFs and AoEs requires some timing and coordination.
     
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  5. breakqop

    breakqop Crypt Guard

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    seems like we're sacrificing an awful lot for the very specific scenario of a smaller force being able to hold off a larger force at a choke

    what are the ramifications for open world fights between vets? the side with the most WoFs/fAoEs wins in straight-up engagements (when one side has at least ~15). the only chance the smaller force has is to string out the bigger force -- but that shit don't happen if the bigger force is composed of vets who aren't complete idiots

    it's like everyone forgot the Z/TSL vs. UDL/SB/HH/RK sieges in df1
     
    #25 breakqop, Jul 30, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2017
  6. Sero

    Sero Menhir Sentinal
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    So lets make the engagements even easier and dumbed down? At least with Field AoEs/WoFs theres an extra layer to combat that stops people from facerolling their keyboard straight into the enemy force.

    And the sad part of open world PVP, is 1 side is always outnumbered, and getting zerged. So its not a very specific scenario. When the zerg bunches up there needs to be AoE to punish that.

    I think you're arguing for the wrong thing, if AoEs/WoF need to be nerfed, the idea of diminishing return shouldn't be something to look at.
     
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  7. breakqop

    breakqop Crypt Guard

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    what do you think "PUSH AND OVERWHELM THEM WITH NUMBERS" is? all the idiot destros push straight in, and the mages stay in the back and drop WoFs and tAoEs. smaller side gets smashed, get caught in WoFs with idiot destros meleeing them and taking tick damage.
     
  8. Grimtide

    Grimtide Evil Eye
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    I think nerfing aoe size and changing it to do less ticks (1set) but slightly more damage would do wonders and/Or if when you moved outside the aoe the damage stopped immediately.

    WoF has been nerfed in beta via cooldown and stat cost by quite a bit but not nearly enough. To be fair, i'd like the spell removed and i'm a 150 pinger. Nerf magma by increasing cd by a couple seconds and make the knockup less severe. Combat changes are pretty far down on my priority list for now though.
     
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  9. Sero

    Sero Menhir Sentinal
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    Sounds like bad positioning, not WoF and Field AoEs. If Destros can push straight into the enemy force with WoFs on them, maybe WoF should be buffed not nerfed :)
     
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  10. breakqop

    breakqop Crypt Guard

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    it comes down to what you value in group play
    it's not like i'm completely against focused tAoEs, i just think they're far too effective. that's why i said they should have diminishing effects when stacked, so they're not completely overwhelming

    i do think floating around in a WoF (which will inevitably happen when you have to keep track of more than ~3 enemies) is just... bad
    --- Post updated ---
    if anything, longer cooldown and higher stat cost helps the side with more numbers

    it's been said a million times already, but it should be an actual wall (think wall of stone in UO) and not a bubble that sucks players in

    same
     
  11. Darktide

    Darktide Fire Elemental

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    With portal chambers out of the game, taking away one of the only perks left of having a holding is just a BAD IDEA imo
     
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  12. Franchise

    Franchise Fire Elemental
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    You are silly... removing mines would still make cities important because of location...

    SMH
     
  13. Darktide

    Darktide Fire Elemental

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    With the portal system and ability to bind at other racial cities?
    The ones that aren't on mainland yes everything else, not really.
     
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  14. Statusquo

    Statusquo Goblin Warlord
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    I agree with most of this stuff here, the city mines im kind of meh about that idea but the only real concern i have is the asset damage to siege idea, I feel like you would have some toxic clans who wait till 3, 4 am start asset damage and then have the siege timer start. Just feel like it can be abused to some extent.
     
  15. MikeJT

    MikeJT Black Knight
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    Currently the most effective way for a low end toon to bring down a high end toon is with melee.

    Lowering melee reach would hurt low end toons more than anything.
    --- Post updated ---
    I think R90 damage has been nerfed enough, i think it's mana costs should be increased though.

    Field aoes stacking rewards good team coordination and should not be changed. Their mana costs should be increased though.

    Don't think blinds should be changed. But I think eye rot needs a longer cooldown.

    Instacast rays are fine but should also have mana increased.

    Mages should be getting most their dps against individual targets from bolts and r50's and only using rays for burst dps and r90s and field aoes for multiple targets.

    I play with 240 ping and these changes would really hurt me but i still think they're, needed
     
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  16. breakqop

    breakqop Crypt Guard

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    longer cooldown and higher stat cost just isn't the way to nerf things... if anything, it buffs the side with overwhelming numbers even more, since they can throw their stats and waste their cooldowns
     
  17. Animal

    Animal Eodrin
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    AoEs like Toxic and the like have always needed to be nerfed into oblivion. They're the largest spells in-game, do a fuck ton of damage, AND can be stacked.

    BPG needs to put diminishing returns on them. R90s need their radial falloff to be more dramatic. You can miss by 4 character models and still do ~35-40 damage.... Wut?

    Fights without endless AoE stacking would actually make combat feel like... combat. Right now it's just whoever happens to have more numbers to keep that endless cycle of dots going. I don't know how any player would advocate for the current way sieges(or mid/large scale pvp) play out.
     
  18. MikeJT

    MikeJT Black Knight
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    So increase their mana costs and cast-times. Maybe their cool downs.

    People should watch their spacing and try not to get multiple AoE's stacked on multiple people.

    AoEs should more situational - you see a group of enemies tightly bunched up so you hit them with a field AoE. Or use them as an area denial to influence enemy movements.

    Right now they're being used against single targets which is just stupid seeing as they do less damage than a bolt generally.
     
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  19. franchisee

    franchisee Wildtribe Mage

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    A few were implemented. The game could use a few more.
     
  20. WithoutShame

    WithoutShame Celestial
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    I like the idea of utilizing the alt use channel that was implemented for stones. Maybe make it so that once the siege stone goes live, you can "alt-use" channel the defending bindstone for 5 minutes to make it go live early. This would make it so sieges that aren't defended don't require the attackers to sit around fingering their bums for 30 minutes.