Welcome to the Rise of Agon Community

Create an account today to engage in discussions and community events on the Rise of Agon forums.

Kraken rework

Discussion in 'Game Design Discussion' started by Volfen, Jun 1, 2019.

  1. Volfen

    Volfen Infernal
    Loyal Legend

    Joined:
    May 6, 2016
    Messages:
    593
    Likes Received:
    625
    Warning: This is going to be a wall of text

    So I needed some squid ink for a new house a few weeks ago, and I decided I'd just go ahead and farm it. I had'nt really farmed Krakens solo before (not efficiently anyway), but after a litte experimentation my strategy consisted of:
    • 1 account in full heavy armor would be sitting ~250m past leash range.
      • When Kraken is about to attack, parry and swim forward to minimize knockback. His attack rate is very predictable so this is easy to do even with 200 ping.
      • Don't hold down parry. This seems to increase the chances of getting disabled.
      • Would still get disabled from time to time, at which point I'd just cycle heals, and if super low hp also use Rage and a potion. I tried casting transfers inbetween swing for quite a while, but this proved unnecessary until I dropped below 200 hp.
      • In several hours of farming, didn't die a single time. Came close maybe once, but you can always begone away or jump when you're about to get hit and get knocked away.
    • Schooner with 3 alts. I ran an autoclicker/alt tab macro on my laptop for 2 of these alts that would click and alt tab every 1.6 seconds (cannon cooldown is about 3.2 seconds). This gave me enough time to correct aim if the Kraken wasn't where I planned.
    • For the third alt, I'd be running that one on my desktop computer along with the tank character, and I'd alt tab to shoot the cannon after every parry, except when I was disabled on the tank.
    • After the first couple volleys of cannon shots, the Kraken would more or less stand still while trying to hit the tank, so it'd just take a few minutes of parrying and healing to get the kill(and alt tabbing to shoot on the 3rd alt if I wasn't feeling lazy). That is, hardly ever did I have to actually aim the cannons past the first couple of shots.
    • I found a spot with 2 spawns that are very close but their leashes were apart enough that I could go afk inbetween, or farm one without the other getting in the way. One important thing here is that a couple of the spawns I went to, the Kraken would aggro at about 700-800 metre range from their world map icon, and continue to chase all the way to 1 km. However, one of them went out to 1.3 km, so it almost killed my boat the first time. Saved it by throwing alts and rafts to distract him.
    With all that out of the way, I'll admit that while none of this is against the rules it's pretty questionable. So let's talk about loot:
    • Respawn (at least the ones I was farming) was ~10 minutes. With those 2 spawns right next to each other, between killing, looting (looting ALL water mobs sucks by the way), postioning the boat, aiming the cannons, and going from one spawn to the next), I had basically 0 downtime.
    • A kraken would drop 1-3 ship modules, 1 ink, treasure fragments, 10-15 q3 hoarfrost, about 5k gold, and sometimes astrolabes and stuff. Once in a while they would drop extra ink, up to 4 in total! However, for the most part you can expect 5k gold, 1 ink, 2 ship mods, the q3 frost, and maybe some random crap.
    • The net result was that I was farming probably ~100k/hour worth of stuff on average (perhaps more right now, I believe ink has gone up in value), risking one full FP bag and a schooner. Nothing spectacular but definitely ok; many spawns out there drop just as much or more.
    • Brought a fishing box a couple times, got nothing of value (specially since the boat needs to be moving with someone on the helm for it to actually fish anything).
    • Not a single time did I spawn Leviathan. For the first hour or 2, I stayed at one spawn in hopes he'd show up. Since he didn't, I decided to cycle spawns which probably killed any chance of finding him.
    Now, for 1 person with 4 accounts, this wasn't bad, and it gave me something different to do. However, if you actually had 4 people here, this would be terrible. Maybe with a 5th to cross heal the tank you could cycle 2 spawns of 2 around Skull Island, but even then you're looking at mediocre loot when it's split 4/5 ways.

    So there are a few problems to tackle here:
    1. Kraken loot is unrewarding unless you're abusing alts, even then it's good but not impressive
    2. If you're not doing it with alts, the people that aren't tanking might as well be sleeping on their keyboard with an autoclicker
    3. Does Leviathan even spawn? I know a couple of my clannies went looking for him but couldn't get him to spawn either. The patch notes hinted that it'd spawn at any spawn in the world
    4. Since Krakens are terrible, there's 0 chance of ever running into another boat randomly in the ocean (I remember one time this happened to my crew in DFO and it was a hilarious adventure that ended with 2 dead boats and everyone on both sides dead except for yours truly)
    This post is already pretty long, but I wanted to put the problem on the table. I'll reply with suggestions sometime later/tomorrow.
     
  2. propain

    propain Black Knight
    Loyal Hero

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2015
    Messages:
    1,040
    Likes Received:
    1,299
    they need to make it so it isnt just killed by alts but at the same time up the loot so 3-4 real people attending their cannons can kill it and feel rewarded.

    never liked the leash mechanic but idk how it could be changed to dissuade alts.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    Inkarnation likes this.
  3. Andrew

    Andrew Obsidian Golem
    Staff Member BPG Representative

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2015
    Messages:
    1,890
    Likes Received:
    4,418
    We've had a few ideas circulate around the kraken but the issue is the fixes in mind are difficult to tweak and work with, only really feasible for our primary devs and their time is split already on a thousand things. We will eventually work on this mob and as it is my personal favourite I hope it gets back into circulation more once we've improved the encounter. The issue is that we cannot increase the loot to make it a more interesting and lucrative mob until we can address the exploits that make this mob too easy with an alt or two for a single player to defeat. We have several ideas to address this mob and we will get to it when we're back to this area again.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    Inkarnation likes this.
  4. Korag

    Korag Evil Eye
    Hero

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2016
    Messages:
    5,621
    Likes Received:
    2,416
    can kill it quickly with 3 people and no tank
     
  5. Volfen

    Volfen Infernal
    Loyal Legend

    Joined:
    May 6, 2016
    Messages:
    593
    Likes Received:
    625
    Mind sharing how? Tried kiting and it actually made it slower
     
  6. Korag

    Korag Evil Eye
    Hero

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2016
    Messages:
    5,621
    Likes Received:
    2,416
    Timing it on its leash with a schooner with ass end facing the kraken.
    Lure it to leash then set up 2 people on cannon 1 person driving. back into the kraken til it aggros quickly get off helm and move forward again while the 2 shoot at it soon as it turns to go back into its leach zone you again get off helm quickly but now go backwards following the kraken. If timed perfect you never lose site and always have 2 shooting it. Goes pretty quick did it many times.
     
  7. Isaac Clarke

    Isaac Clarke Chosen of Khamset
    Hero

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Messages:
    722
    Likes Received:
    1,143
    Treat krakens like fire dragons, only 3-4 spawns on the map, only respawn once per day, can be 2-3 manned and net roughly 100-120k in loot.

    Increase difficulty/hp slightly

    Doesnt need to be overcomplicated
     
  8. Scrapnotcrap

    Scrapnotcrap Eodrin
    Hero

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2015
    Messages:
    2,102
    Likes Received:
    1,017
    I'm from wow. When a mob retreats, it becomes invulnerable. Everything you try on it will ''miss'' and they also heal-up at a fast rate. I don't think mobs should heal up too fast, but when you look at shadow knights and shadow spirits, they kinda behave like the mobs from every thempark mmo's i know in term of regrouping.

    I'll go as far as to say that mobs should be able to climb-up and down almost anything. If they can't jump, make them walk on walls, fuck it. They do this in themepark mmo's so they can't be exploited.

    DF is prob the only mmo where we can exploit mobs as much as we do. PVE is as easy as it is because it's so easy to exploit.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  9. KoKane

    KoKane Celestial

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2015
    Messages:
    615
    Likes Received:
    812
    Only seeing this thread now. I actually went and did Krakens yesterday with a friend.
    I ran 5 clients auto clicking and he tanked.

    The loot was terrible despite how easy it was and I definitely dont recommend increasing the loot given how its farmed.

    We do always seem to have the same idea for mobs and the reason for killing them. Its always about loot. Kill the mob, it drops the items..
    But I was thinking that maybe some mobs need a new reason for killing them, and this can probably tie in with the territory control patch.

    What if certain mobs dropped components for crafting an item that gives a clan buff for a day or something. Craft it and place it in a clan church, similar to relics.
    So the loot can remain kinda shit, since people are going to find the quickest most efficient ways to kill things with as few people as possible anyway.. Repurposing the mob and its loot a certain way can still allow for inevitable tactics like that.



    One separate issue I noticed is that only 1 client got the killing blow and only 1 client got the assist. 3 other cannoneers didnt get an assist.. nor the person in the water baiting...
    So this means anyone who wants to complete the task, even LEGIT, will struggle without organising the killing blow like that. (Dont know if its intentional or not, but thought I'd share that observation)


    One counter to the Kraken killing method we all use, is to make the mob ALWAYS parry disable, on every hit... This forces a new tactic to be discovered... and one that will most likely involve risking the ship, and people using repair shards per run too
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  10. Saeora

    Saeora Goblin Scout

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2016
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    17
    I like that Always Parry Disable idea, maybe make shock charges stun it for a few seconds so you actually sail around to kill it?
     
    Bakken likes this.