Welcome to the Rise of Agon Community

Create an account today to engage in discussions and community events on the Rise of Agon forums.

Let's put this to rest once and for all.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by WyLd_SyDe, Jun 2, 2017.

  1. WyLd_SyDe

    WyLd_SyDe Spellgazer
    Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2016
    Messages:
    453
    Likes Received:
    513
    if we could find a happy medium, this is a great idea. but at the same you also force people to do a lengthy tutorial which if they are anything like me i like to learn by playing.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  2. Biceps

    Biceps Infernal
    Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2016
    Messages:
    565
    Likes Received:
    337
    quickly show casing every spell in a tutorial wont have the same learning effect...not even close. and you still throw way too much info in too short time at a new player. its not just knowing about the spells its also setting up decent binds. this is process that takes time. ive known all the spells before the start and i still changed my binds multiple times since launch and will probably do a couple more times to maximize efficiency. this is nothing you can artificially accelerate. its something you develop and improve while grinding.

    also let me ask you something. do you think, once ur char is maxed out, you will never pve again? cos honestly you will always be pveing to maintain a bank and it will be the same as grinding skills just that you dont gain skills anymore. you could also say the current character grind is a side effect of building up a bank. the point is its the exact same thing and if you keep playing the game in a couple years the amount of pve you did to lvl up ur skills will literally be less than 1% of the pve you did to maintain that bank over the years.

    no matter how you look at it, in the grand scheme, the skill grind really is not a factor if you plan to play the game cos if pve really bothers you that much you wont have fun at the endgame anyway cos it will always be part of it.
    --- Post updated ---
    lets put a portal near every bind stone in every starter city. if you step through it you port to Unholy Wars and stay there for a week. here you learn all the most basic concepts of darkfall combat without the complicated indepth mechanics and finesses of the real darkfall XD
     
  3. Check Mate

    Check Mate Stormgraive

    Joined:
    May 2, 2017
    Messages:
    358
    Likes Received:
    442
    Whoever said you don't bolt things to death must not have gotten to necro yet lol
     
  4. breakqop

    breakqop Crypt Guard

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2015
    Messages:
    183
    Likes Received:
    235
    i was thinking more along the lines of: "congrats, you just unlocked water magic! kill 20 of these fire elementals, they're weak to water spells!" type stuff

    anything, even just giving people access to everything from the jump, seems more efficient than what we currently have... i think not giving people access to everything before throwing them out into a world as harsh as darkfall is much, much more overwhelming + frustrating.

    i'm only concerned with new player retention, so with that in mind the char grind is way different than the pve/item grind
     
    trammiesurprise likes this.
  5. Biceps

    Biceps Infernal
    Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2016
    Messages:
    565
    Likes Received:
    337
    necro and arcane is a different story. the discussion was about lvling elemental schools which is very inefficient to do with bolts.
     
  6. Frog

    Frog Black Knight
    Loyal Hero

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2016
    Messages:
    1,276
    Likes Received:
    1,494
    bolts are not the fastest way to level up a magic school, the fastest way is to cycle the spells with the longest cooldown. you are correct that bolts are the most cost efficient but the smartest way to level is to cast the ray/r50/r90/field aoe for the schools in between casting bolts.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  7. Sero

    Sero Gnoll Vilegaunt
    Loyal Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2016
    Messages:
    6,935
    Likes Received:
    9,067
    The fact that you have to remind people to level up their abilities says all you need to know about the people that are attempting to argue
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  8. Biceps

    Biceps Infernal
    Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2016
    Messages:
    565
    Likes Received:
    337
    ill just have to completely disagree on that.

    i dno ofcourse new player retention is the most important but tbh a player that starts an mmo should accept that there is a certain amount of pve (grind if you will) that is part of the experience. removing that would cause so many other issues. for example if you give everyone a maxed out char from the get go 95% of the spawns in the world would never ever be populated and huge parts of the world would be completely deserted. half the holdings would have no value and the only thing to do is pvp and we would be back to arena darkfall in no time where only the strongest survive while the weak have nothing else to do but getting spanked all day.
     
  9. breakqop

    breakqop Crypt Guard

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2015
    Messages:
    183
    Likes Received:
    235
    but why? i can't understand the argument that you'll overwhelm new players if you give them access to all spells, because they'll be just as overwhelmed as soon as you throw them into a world of players that will use all those spells against them -- that just breeds frustration

    you're right, they'd definitely need to rework mob spawns, but i think that's a good thing
     
    #309 breakqop, Jun 4, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2017
  10. mybsurchin

    mybsurchin Celestial

    Joined:
    May 13, 2017
    Messages:
    630
    Likes Received:
    531
    it is a relevant point bud

    just think about a timeline of progression for an average noob for a sec (has a life so cant play 18 hours a day like sero)

    now factor in the difference between killing AI mobs and pvp

    put those two together in your head and a few lightbulbs may turn on, let me know if you have any realizations
     
  11. Sero

    Sero Gnoll Vilegaunt
    Loyal Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2016
    Messages:
    6,935
    Likes Received:
    9,067
    REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  12. mybsurchin

    mybsurchin Celestial

    Joined:
    May 13, 2017
    Messages:
    630
    Likes Received:
    531
    i can even use sero as an analogy to demostrate

    sero has had years of practice being socially inept

    its going to take a long time for him to unlearn his habits and then learn the proper way to behave (assuming he becomes a functional adult at some point)

    now apply this concept to grinding and pvping in this game
     
  13. Sero

    Sero Gnoll Vilegaunt
    Loyal Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2016
    Messages:
    6,935
    Likes Received:
    9,067
    REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  14. ikutamaj

    ikutamaj New Member
    Tester

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2016
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    12

    I agree that I would like pvp option where all player characters are equal. Not a one time tournament though, but an ongoing option to practice pvp with evenly matched characters.

    I disagree with your reasons and perspective. I think you may have lost perspective because you play this game far more than many other people. It is not about your skill level compared to others, it is about building a game where people of various skill levels and amounts of play time can all have fun.

    I really enjoy pvp but as a casual gamer, I hardly get to practice it. The only real way to practice is to 1v1 with clan-mates (however this does not really offer the true adrenaline of real pvp). I am constantly (during my limited play time) trying to level my character and get enough cash for gear. In the few PvP encounters that I have been in, I seem to be hitting for half what my opponent hits for. This makes for a quick death and doesn't really offer opportunity to practice improving pvp skill. **I'm not suggesting that getting ganked by a stronger character is entirely bad - it adds excitement to the open world. I AM suggesting that this is the only pvp that many players experience, and that is a problem**

    I am not sure of exactly how to fix this but I think the game will die out without fixing this somehow. New players and slower levelers alike just wont find this fun over time. Maybe, I could imagine arenas or dungeons courses where teams or individuals can enter and compete at various skill levels based on rankings. It might be nice to offer a simplified character option in the lower rankings so new players dont get overwhelmed by the huge amount of spells and skills. This kind of thing would still allow veterans to stay on top and offer a fun space for newer and less experienced players to pvp and practice.
     
    #314 ikutamaj, Jun 5, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2017
    Mycke likes this.
  15. trammiesurprise

    trammiesurprise Wildtribe Mage
    Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2015
    Messages:
    318
    Likes Received:
    635
    I actively played the game for like 4 hours today:

    fire magic 68-71
    Melee mastery 39-42
    Earth magic 66-68

    Playing naturally instead of focus grinding a skill made gains feel non existent, but I did get around 20k gold which was nice.

    Even the individual spells barely creeped up.

    The lack of gains is demoralizing and having to play and focus on using a single skill/spell to get gains that feel like progress is annoying.

    I keep playing because I see the light at the end of a long dark road, but man I can now see why so few ever make it.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    Navlaan likes this.
  16. Teclis

    Teclis Undead Dwarf
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2016
    Messages:
    224
    Likes Received:
    175
    I reckon the grind feels quicker then UW and in a nice place for a mmorpg.
     
    Sero likes this.
  17. Mycke

    Mycke Obsidian Golem

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2016
    Messages:
    1,532
    Likes Received:
    1,052
    This really nails it! I truly believe the loss of race wars removed a lot of opportunity for average v average PvP and in the short run the best solution at this point is for them to get their faction system rolling or there will be a never ending flow of noobs only getting to fight vets. Factions will give people more reason to group up and/or defend ones own faction, the only current metric right now is red/blue, but that is way overshadowed by allied/not.
     
    ikutamaj likes this.