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Let's talk gold sinks

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Grimtide, Mar 29, 2019.

  1. otoan

    otoan Crypt Guard
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    I came up with a whole system based around it. The higher the quality the more time it takes to decay. Broken items don't disappear so if they come back they can always get their shit repaired and work from there. Repairing allows you to repair the durability at the cost of max durability. High end items that allow you to restore max durability. You can read this thread. I outlined my idea throughout it. My idea would be that this would only be on weapons and armor not material and gold so they'd always be able to come back and not be completely useless. This would also mean people liquidated the gear more.

    You already shot it down but you can read it here. https://forums.riseofagon.com/threads/otoans-suggestions.13265/ I do go into more depth in replies of my idea so please read through the whole post.
     
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  2. Scrapnotcrap

    Scrapnotcrap Obsidian Golem
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    When you are grouped, you don't almost lose, you win a lot weather you are grouped or solo. You loot full gear bags after gear bags. You don't need to farm like we do. you got some of the best players in your clan.

    You need gold sink, not us; we don't need gold sink at all, not even a little more.
     
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  3. Battle Smurf

    Battle Smurf Oak Lord
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    Yet another reason why I like the "each item has a chance to be destroyed on gank" idea.

    It disproportionately affects groups who win all the time.

    Weaker players are losing all their gear regardless, BUT by having SOME loot totally destroyed on Gank high win rate players/groups players like Grimtide or myself would NOT be able to get EVERYTHING we need just from killing and looting other players, we'd have to farm a bit more and the more people farming= more natural openworld PvP opportunities.


    ALSO with the item chance to fully break on gank mechanic you allow the ultimate LOSING side of a group fight to still inflict economic damage on the winning side. Thus giving the losing side a small victory if they gank some of the winners because the dead winners won't just get 100% of their bag back from their friends.


    Coincidentally this ALSO helps people who get zerged or string zerged or caught by friends of the people they killed on the way to a bank after winning a fight... because those kids you killed before dying yourself ain't getting their full bag back. They died and deserve a punishment.


    It sucks when you kill like 3 dudes and then a fourth catches you at low stats and ALL your work is negated because guy 4 gets all your loot AND ALL the loot of his friends back.


    Of course these are all just ancillary benefits to the major and much NEEDED gear sink that % chance item destruction on gank provides, which is to combat inflation and the ever raising requirements for a "viable" gear bag.

    Really everyone should be on board with this mechanic @kilrain @Metalkon @Neilk
     
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  4. Sero

    Sero Gnoll Vilegaunt
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    "YOU WON? HERE IS YOUR REWARD: FUCK YOU!"

    Going to be fantastic when the shit tiers finally win and get nothing, that's sure to keep em going!

    10% current dura loss on gank and be done with it.

    Go away.
     
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  5. kilrain

    kilrain Shadow Knight
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    Playing Eve for years it's not like that at all. You celebrate the kill, the win, and the stuff you get to loot is a bonus.

    10% loss on gank won't do much.
    --- Post updated ---
    Plus in Eve you can repair items so the stuff you do loot isn't a waste like most of it is in df.
    --- Post updated ---
    Thinking of it like that, like Eve. You won't have to keep getting new gear if you don't die, just spend gold repairing it. When you do die though some get destroyed so no one gets it and it will have to be replaced.
    --- Post updated ---
    Gold sinks for everyone :)
     
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  6. Battle Smurf

    Battle Smurf Oak Lord
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    You really are a low level thinker huh? Literally no one thinks that way about the mechanic in EvE/ Albion (2 games with VASTLY better economies and populations btw)

    I'd rather get 75-80% of a high durability bag that has no dura removed from the kill/gank than 100% of a bag in shit scroach durability.

    Shit I'd actually rather get just 2 or 3 good durability items than whole bag of shit that has been worn down. But I'm not advocating something that extreme. I'd say 25% chance of item destruction.

    By not making every item a guarantee it makes the times you DO get a badass item that much more exciting and the item more valuable.

    Obviously this mechanic would go best with a system in which gear effectiveness goes down based on durability + a repair system at the cost of max durability.

    You try to justify the status quo just because that's what you're used to. You can't see the negatives and unsustainability of such a system.

    It doesn't work and never has in any version of Darkfall or any other game.

    10% current dura loss on gank does practically nothing to sink gear, combat inflation, or address the DISGUSTING rampant problem of scroaching in low dura high rank gear that DESTROYS proper risk vs reward.

    You're a simpleton who doesn't understand complex problems and offers no real solutions.

    In before your standard "LUL TLDR just raise minimum wage to $15!" style reply/ suggestion
     
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  7. Sero

    Sero Gnoll Vilegaunt
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    2 reasons I quit albion:

    - Shit combat
    - Shit loot system


    Funniest shit ever killing someone using a dope item and getting their fucking backpack. So much fun, so rewarding...
    --- Post updated ---
    Tell me more about how EVE and Albion have more pop than DF because loot breaks when you kill someone.


    So low dura gear that breaks is about to exit the economy anyways, so how is gear that is about to break the issue?
    Yea and it makes every other time lack luster.

    Oh boy! Now were reducing the effectiveness of gear! its almost like we've had this conversation before and figured out all this does is create another "low dura" reference point you pea brain.


    INB4 you post suggestions on a forum for a game you dont play because New Dawn shutdown.
     
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    #167 Sero, May 14, 2019
    Last edited: May 14, 2019
  8. Battle Smurf

    Battle Smurf Oak Lord
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    This guy knows his shit. I'm actually more confident BPG will eventually implement a good solution now.
     
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  9. Sero

    Sero Gnoll Vilegaunt
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    AHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAH
     
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  10. Scrapnotcrap

    Scrapnotcrap Obsidian Golem
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    If only gold will be required to repair, ppl are going to start making R75 daggers and sunbows for pve.
     
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  11. MikerotchBAGFACE

    MikerotchBAGFACE Chosen of Khamset

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    Territory control should get rid of city mines and add free ports to owned holdings, youre not fixing the root problems with gear destruction unless you wipe.the economy first.

    I also hate the idea of gear destruction or dura loss on gank, its lazy game design.

    On a positive note I really like what bpg did with loot regionalization and scarcity.
     
    #171 MikerotchBAGFACE, May 15, 2019
    Last edited: May 15, 2019
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  12. Blaze

    Blaze Chosen of Khamset

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    +1
     
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  13. Scrapnotcrap

    Scrapnotcrap Obsidian Golem
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    One more thing, i don't think players in infernal and dragon should suffer from that. Players in robe ganking don't deserve shit. The armory tier system should play a part, but at the same time, it shouldn't be limited to melee weapon tier because remember, you can only gank in melee.
     
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  14. kilrain

    kilrain Shadow Knight
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    Having the ability to gank with other weapons makes sense, but a different topic.

    Items breaking on death isn't set it stone, but I think it's definitely worth talking about. Out of all the suggestions to help get equipment to cycle out of the economy it's the only one that actually does that. Giving a small percentage of durability loss on gank is really just a few hits in a fight and while yeah it speeds up the process it's not that much. We probably wouldn't even notice the effects it has on the economy much if at all.

    Other reasons why it interests me:
    Item repair is something the community has asked for in some fashion for a long time. This only creates potential problems for the economy because it only extends the cycle of getting gear out of the economy, regardless of how it's implemented. In order to implement something like item repair, which IMO sounds very, very interesting because it encourages the use of more expensive equipment knowing that you'll be able to fix it up and keep using it for a long time... assuming you don't die and get dry looted. So before we can think of implementing item repair we need to think of another way to remove items from the world.

    Bringing in item destruction on death you're now able to implement item repair. As long as you don't die you essentially don't lose your gear because you can keep repairing it which in itself is a great gold sink. Now imagine being able to repair a sword that you've used in sieges and haven't lost. Now it's your lucky sword and you can keep repairing it and using it in sieges. We could attach stats to each weapon for how many kills it has had and as long as you don't die an it doesn't get destroyed it could potentially live on forever and keep collecting names/history.

    Another reason is farming people who are farming. It's fun to win a fight so people will go out of their way to ensure a win most of the time, including jumping people who are low from fighting mobs. Not only is this a way to win a fight and kill someone you are also going to get whatever it is they're farming. Bring in item destruction on death and now you're not likely to get everything they've collected. E.G. If I spend an hour at a spawn collecting something (or longer) and you come along and kill me. I check my kill mail (oh yeah) and see that the stack of rare ore I collected was destroyed, now I have the satisfaction that your sorry ass didn't get the goods! So you can see that this is also a deterrent or potential deterrent for farming people to get your stuff. You will still likely have to spend some amount of time either getting money to buy from the market or farming your own gear because you can no longer count on fully on getting it from other players. I've been on both sides of this equation in Eve and when you do get the rare item because it didn't get destroyed it's a pretty damn amazing feeling.

    Ransoms. In Eve when you've got someone captured and near death, let's say "entered gank mode", you and they both know gear is about to get destroyed so you can ransom the person. You have them transfer gold to your wallet and you rez them (a feature we could add). As is If nothing ever gets destroyed then there's no gamble, you know you're going to get everything the other person is carrying and so you're not risking anything and will never ransom them. Imagine a person is carrying 100k worth of gear. If you gank them or they die out and they happen to lose 20% of that they're now worth 80k, you could ransom them for 90k and you're both better off in the end. "What's to stop someone from taking the money and ganking anyway?" good point, but reputation does play a role there. If you are known to do that, which word spreads pretty fast, then no one will pay you. Being an honorable pirate has its benefits :)

    Speaking of kill mails, I and many others have always wanted this feature and with the changes we've made with assisted kills and some other things I'm nearly ready to implement it. For the uninitiated a kill mail is a piece of mail received by the person who was killed and the person who landed the killing blow. This mail would detail what the person who died was wearing, what was destroyed, the total value destroyed, the total value of gear the person was carrying, the amount of damage this person took while being killed, who helped (assists), the amount of damage each assisting person dealt, who landed the final blow, where the person died, and probably more I can't think of. These mails turned into collectors items and people would post them to websites like zkillboard, a player made website that parses the mail and creates a history for every player and so on. This is interesting because it then turns item destruction into a goal or achievement. Who has "destroyed" the most amount of money worth of equipment in combat? If you check the website right on the front page at the top you see "Most Valuable Kills".

    If I think of more things I'll bring them up later. I do think it's something people should consider. It has a lot of benefits and only one drawback.
     
  15. Squanto

    Squanto Varangian Warthane
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    If you were just to implement random item destruction on gank, I think it would be horrible. Yes it gets items out of the game, but it kind of destroys the entire aspect of full loot PvP. If you killed someone out in the world and they had a sunbow on them and it was randomly destroyed on gank doesn't that defeat the entire purpose of a full loot pvp game? Wouldn't you be pissed? I would log out on the spot and probably not log back in for weeks, and if that happened to others Im sure they would quit over it.

    The complete randomness of it was awful in the short time I played Albion, it was one of the main reasons why I quit. I remember you guys were talking about implementing a system where you could basically see a players inventory and take certain things from them then revive them rather than gank. If you could combine the two systems in a way (item destruction on death + being able to choose items from a players inventory) but with some drawbacks to what you can take before everything else is randomly destroyed, I think most people would be fine with a system like this. There would obviously be a few issues with the economy of certain items such as staves or helmets (whatever is the most valuable piece of the average gearbag - there would be much less of them leaving the game so you may need to implement something for that).. but I would really like this system, especially if you could repair items.

    Just a quick example of what I would consider acceptable in this game for item destruction on gank: when you kill someone you can run up and interact with their corpse (before they are ganked). A menu opens up for both players and the one on the ground can either 'surrender items' and allow the person looting them to see and take whatever they want off of the character or 'deny surrender'. If they refuse to surrender their items, and then get ganked or bleed out the first person who touches the corpse gets prompted with a menu displaying all of the players items in a somewhat organized manner and they have the option to chose 1 or 2 items from the enemy that aren't destroyed on gank. After they choose, the rest of the items/item stacks in the ganked/bled out players inventory are randomly destroyed. Decaps in water wouldn't allow item surrender, but would work the same way as on land for item selection.
     
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  16. TyteDaddyTite

    TyteDaddyTite Obsidian Golem
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    Would you put Kilrain on a The List?
     
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  17. chad

    chad Infernal
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    Items leave the economy at a fine pace when there's a good population.
     
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  18. kilrain

    kilrain Shadow Knight
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    Could do something like the 2 most valuable items are safe and the rest have increased chances of getting destroyed. Just another option.
     
  19. Billy Lee

    Billy Lee Chosen of Khamset
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    Could also base the chance of destruction on the rarity of the item, more expensive stuff is more sturdy.
     
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  20. Sero

    Sero Gnoll Vilegaunt
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    I would rather see max dura reduced than item break on gank.
     
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