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Loot distribution, unintended consequences...

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Euchre, Jan 1, 2019.

  1. Euchre

    Euchre Goblin Warrior
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    The whole loot revamp, to reduce the amount of mobs with valuable drops, and more them all to midmap has basically killed the midgame entirely.

    I know all the vets want "Dynamic pvp", which basically means to jump people farming so they don't have to pve. However its currently nearly impossible for someone who doesn't already have all the gear, to farm the mats to make it, or survive getting jumped by players that outgear and outskill them.

    What this is resulting in, is a further divide between the haves and have nots. To the point that if you didn't build your bank when resources were plentiful, well good luck, it's now 8x harder.

    Right now ROA is either Noobs, or wealthy vets, with not much in between. But the ironic part, is the area in between is where the magic is.

    For this game to survive, the midgame must exist, it is where you still have goals, still NEED to farm, still NEED to work on pvp skills, and basically have a reason to log in.

    When the midgame is so brutal and unforgiving, which i understand is part of the game, you need to strike some type of better balance to stop people from quitting one they reach this phase of the game.

    Am i crazy? Or does something need to change?
     
  2. Sero

    Sero Evil Eye
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    No vet wanted this iteration. Theres literally only 1 oathliege spawn on the map.
     
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  3. Marxman

    Marxman Varangian Warthane
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    You are largely right, the issue is though most of the people who are still here or at least active on the forum are those very same vets, so the only voices ever really heard are theirs. And if anyone tries to go against their hive-mind they get zerged down, not just ingame but here on the forum. Not only do they not want to fix these issues, they are actively pushing BPG to make them much worse. Typically, they would rather have a short-term ego boost than have long-term enjoyment.
     
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  4. Grimtide

    Grimtide Evil Eye
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    I'm not sure any vets or pvpers asked for the mob change.
     
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  5. Euchre

    Euchre Goblin Warrior
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    It is a bit of a generalization, but the sentiment has been for a while to have mob spawns contested and generate pvp. I think this mob change, was intended to do exactly that.

    People forget that these games NEED prey. Sandbox games that are all predator and no prey aren't fun for anybody. This is why try as they might, no UO freeshard can EVER recreate the experience we had in the golden age, no matter how hard they try. Simply because those that still play them, were all the reds, and the gold farming noobs simply don't exist.

    When everything is in favor of the predators, the prey become extinct. In fact it should be the opposite, make it higher risk for the predators, and worthwhile enough for the prey to risk being there.

    I don't have the answers, wish i did, i just hope to spark some discussion on this.
     
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  6. Sero

    Sero Evil Eye
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    If I were to guess, I'd believe these mob changes were in preparation for safe zone changes for new player farming; however, they seem to have gone overboard.
     
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  7. Euchre

    Euchre Goblin Warrior
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    You may be right, problem is, once you are out of the noob phase of the game, rare ore and enchant mats are all that matter. So they could safe zone 80% of the world, and it wouldn't help, infact it would make everything worse by destroying the game at its core.

    Safe zones aren't the solution outside of nooblands, for midgame a proper risk/reward MUST be there. Right now midgame is all risk and nearly no reward.
     
  8. Battle Smurf

    Battle Smurf Cairn Giant
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    You're not crazy, but I know why it might seem that way.

    I have been warning/railing about the inevitably broken economy since pre Alpha, years before launch, aside from some community upvotes though most people (especially BPG) never gave a fuck.

    The whole point was that you have to get the foundation right from day 1 because it's literally IMPOSSIBLE to correct it post launch WITHOUT screwing some group of people over (which is exactly what we're seeing now)
     
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  9. Billy Lee

    Billy Lee Infernal
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    I've been back playing for two months and haven't even fought anyone at a spawn, nor seen anyone, and I mostly just farm. You can get mostly maxed out and extremely rich very easily, there is barely anyone hunting people at spawns. You can even farm simple monsters like windlords and gets tons of wealth, it is not difficult, nor is it risky. Sure, if you go to hotspots you might get action but you absolutely do not need to.
     
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  10. WithoutShame

    WithoutShame Fire Elemental
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    Can you please link to all of these posts/threads calling for changes like this to the PvE spawns from all the vets? Or are you just pulling this out of your ass.
     
  11. Euchre

    Euchre Goblin Warrior
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    I have had the exact opposite experience, problem is my only available playtime is prime EST. So i go in a farming gearset, gt jumped and my shit pushed in.

    That's part of where this thread came from. For a casual type player i am in a MUCH better place than most, honestly if i didn't already have most of my crafting at R60/infernal/Q3 or above, i would simply quit right now. My issue personally is i don't have mats to make those items, but am working on fixing that, as well as my pvp skills which need work also.
     
  12. nightblighter

    nightblighter Gravelord
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    Can I ask which mob spawns they changed that you dislike?

    From my overview of the map when they made the changes a week ago, it seemed like most of the changes were for q4/q5 mobs, which I would describe as end game/high end and not mid game. Mid game (Q3 in my view) was mostly untouched. Also for rare ores there is at least 1 selentine golem in a lawful area so people have to go criminal to gank farmers at it. There are 3 selentine golems all on mainland and rare selentine ore veins. Really it seems like it has never been easier to get a good "mid game" bank.

    Also did you delete your other thread to remake it as this one?
     
  13. Billy Lee

    Billy Lee Infernal
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    I think your recent experience may be an anomaly, I wouldn't worry about it too much because I do believe it will turn out fine for you. If you want to avoid vets, try to figure out where you can get good profit in isolated areas. The more profitable the spawn, the higher quality the materials, the greater chance for pvp. You can try avoiding farming near holdings and chaos cities and you can also check out the heat map to see where pvp has been occurring recently. https://www.riseofagon.com/agonmetrics/pvp/heatmap/

    As for pvp, you are correct that you need good gear but I don't think you truly need top tier gear, even full plate with q2 enchants and r60's is totally fine under most circumstances. The more time you invest into dueling, the more prepared you'll be for the real thing, even a duel or two per week can really add up.
     
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  14. Euchre

    Euchre Goblin Warrior
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    Midgame includes Mat gathering IMO, because you aren't really into endgame, you still need Q4/5 mats to get crafting up and make gear, before all you do is siege and pvp.

    It was MUCH easier before to build a bank before. All it did was make it harder for people to catch up. I farmed much more Sele, Veil, Leen before i left than most. Only playing primetime i have yet to be able to kill more than 2 golems at any spawn without being jumped.

    And yes i deleted the other thread, my dislikes of the current siege system and the silly nature of how it is a defacto grief tool in it's current form just muddled it up.
     
  15. Grimtide

    Grimtide Evil Eye
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    Obviously you weren't farming mid map guardians of rare ore golems if you haven't been jumped in 2 months lol

    you farming akathars next to an npc city or what?
     
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  16. Euchre

    Euchre Goblin Warrior
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    I agree, and i'll be ok, this isn't really about me. It's about the guy who just started and wants to get going in the game, has so much stacked against them now. I have tried to get friends from other games to play, and they won't touch this game literally because they don't feel like they will ever catch up, which just got significantly worse with the mob changes.

    Sandbox MMO's need a mix of players to thrive, and right now there isn't much to keep new to mid players interested when literally 85% of the server are all at the end game. Like others i want to see this game, which has the best combat style available, survive.
     
  17. nightblighter

    nightblighter Gravelord
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    This is oddly specific and not how most people play this game. The only people who can build up a bank once and then never farm again are the ones good enough to kill people for their gear more than they themselves get killed.

    "The guy who just started and wants to get going in the game" isn't being held back because they can't adequately farm q4/q5 mats without getting jumped. That's just an entirely separate world from a new player, even conditioning on how much quicker new players reach max skills/stats. Player skill is orders of magnitude farther behind than their gearing situation.
     
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  18. Billy Lee

    Billy Lee Infernal
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    I have farmed some rare ore golems during that time but not a lot. I haven't done any farming mid map since my return but I have farmed a lot of different spawns that drop Q4 and Q5 with big loot. I farm all kinds of different stuff though, sometimes profit is higher on easy and medium monsters but people tend to think that it's all about farming the biggest ones. I only get to farm an hour per day but I find that loot comes in quite fast, even from easy monsters. I can't really see how it is at all difficult for new players to get a good bank when you can get rich by farming all over the place, a lot of spawns net 100k+ per hour in gold and items combined, that's just 10 hours in an mmo to get a large amount of stuff, getting rich is very easy. I mean, I used to farm hivekin queens, one of the easiest monsters in the game, and sell the onions for 400 per, the profit was pouring in at a ridiculous rate, people just need to hunt around for good spawns and find niches in the market.

    I don't think new players have much stacked against them at all, to be completely honest. You can max out your character pretty fast and with very little effort compared to other mmo's, wealth building is very easy if you take the time to learn how. The mob changes did not make it much harder on new players and in some ways, they made it much easier. While the power players are farming the most profitable spawns a new player can farm in most places with almost zero risk of being seen, and the loot does add up very fast imo. For example, why not farm windlords when eggs are going for 150 per? You can make huge profit by doing this, vets will likely never find you, and windlords are not that difficult, nor do they require powerful gear or stats to overcome.
     
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  19. nightblighter

    nightblighter Gravelord
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    Just to add on to Billy Lee's point, remember that Rise of Agon has a market system now. This isn't like the days of yore when trading was only done person-to-person. You don't need to farm the leenspar golem to get leenspar ingots and you don't need to know a high level armorsmith to get infernal armor made. Farm something lower risk and buy what you need off the market. Then get your player skill up and you can go out in the ballin' gear and start the virtuous(vicious?) cycle of killing bad players and taking their gear. You'll never have to farm again! It will take longer than just directly farming the high end mobs, but that is the nature of risk/reward.
     
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  20. Grimtide

    Grimtide Evil Eye
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    Definitely need onion and egg farmers
     
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