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Magic overhaul and new specializations

Discussion in 'Game Design Discussion' started by Kietharr, Jun 23, 2017.

  1. Kietharr

    Kietharr Goblin Scout

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    So magic is incredibly grindy and there's tons of redundant shit left in there by the design gods at AV. A few changes I'd make

    1. Merge Spellchanting and Arcane Magic into 'Holy', merge Necromancy and Witchcraft into 'Unholy', there is no reason to have these stylistically similar spells in separate schools that require more grind to unlock. Make them accessible at 50 Lesser Magic.

    2. Remove Greater Magic entirely, merge the spells into Lesser Magic. Rename Witch's Brew and put it in the new Lesser Magic so destros retain access.

    3. Merge most of the buff spells. All like spells (wards, hastes, stat buffs, pool buffs...) become one spell each. This is a pretty good way to remove a lot of redundant binds that don't really add anything to the game from a player skill perspective. Put everything except elemental wards in Holy Magic.

    4. Add new Specializations

    a. Paladin: Block all magic except Holy and Lesser, increases magnitude and duration of Holy spells, slightly increase damage (like no more than 5%) against red alignment players. Must remain blue alignment

    b. Unholy Warrior: Block all magic except Unholy and Lesser, increases magnitude and duration of Unholy spells, allows use of merged unholy debuff spells (left unmerged for non-specialist players because unlike with buffs it actually makes them way stronger instead of just less tedious) must remain red alignment

    c. Elementalist: Block Holy and Unholy magic, increases magnitude and duration of Elemental spells, allows use of merged elemental wards/debuffs

    Part of what I want to do with these ideas is add specialization to the 'mage' so we have more than a two/three role character development system which is something I have bitched about since we found out there was no skill cap in DF 1.0. Adding more ways to build a viable character that don't include grinding out every single school of magic also decreases the overall grind factor which improves new player experience.
     
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  2. merkmerk73

    merkmerk73 Earth Elemental

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    I like your red hunter idea - that's pretty cool. Should be more like 20% damage otherwise it's irrelevant though
     
  3. Super Star

    Super Star Oak Lord
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    everyone has access to everything, always with the exception being destro because of how 2 types of ranged dmg works and needing only 1. That is one thing they were very clear about. All you have done is selected specific schools to block that everyone already has access to, and call it something else, which is taking away, not adding. Another thing to watch is, when dmg is balanced and TTK is good, adding in a spec and just giving it more dmg really doesnt add any flavor, you just decrease ttk for really no reason
     
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  4. Mexi Horseman

    Mexi Horseman Goblin Warlord

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    TL;DR

    The only acceptable meta is the one that currently exists. Anything else will be shouted down.
     
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  5. Super Star

    Super Star Oak Lord
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    TLDR, please block schools for magics and call them new specs and say it adds to the game. All you have done is block schools and add more dmg, nice
     
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  6. Veeshan

    Veeshan Crypt Guard

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    I rather they block school and boost one in different ways from dmg or add new spell in the line if they take the specilisation (lets say water mastery) there a couple knew spell in the water mastery school which one no else can use unless u take the water magic specilisation some spells could be like a bolt spell usable underwater (gives magic users a use in water without grinding archery) A CC type spell or 2 since they would effectivly be loosing Fireknock up being opposite school so they need something else i feel to go with it.
     
  7. Grimtide

    Grimtide Evil Eye
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    I prefer freedom

    gl balancing ur ideas.
     
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  8. Quin Tessence

    Quin Tessence Black Knight
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    Not a fan of blocking skills, spells, or abilities.

    Not a good idea to develop completely new mechanics in a live game.

    I would like to see new spells in the game or the spell customization features enhanced.

    Damage Increase (10%) - Overcharge Spells (20%) Double Man/Stam Cost
    Speed Increase (40%) - Overclocked Spells (60%) 40% longer cool down
    Jump Casting - Double Jump Casting (20% Higher Reagent Cost)
    Spell Range (200%) - Spell Snipe (400% - Longer Cast Time)
     
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  9. black horseman

    black horseman Skeleton Archer

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    Being able to have every skill and spell in the game and do them all to the same degree of excellence is poor design IMO.

    Players should have to make choices based on their playstyle about what type of abilities they prefer to use.

    The purpose of a single character, skill based game vs a class system isn't to allow every character to do everything all the time. It is designed to allow every character the OPTION of doing anything. You should still have to make trade-offs.

    If you want to cast every spell in the game, you should be sacrificing something for that level of utility. Also the "grind" is not a trade-off. Maybe DF1 grind was because it took orders of magnitude more time/regs to do. The RoA grind is extremely doable in not that much time.
     
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  10. Ogrinn

    Ogrinn Deadeye
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    I think having access to all the skills and creating your own "class" based on your play-style is better than imposing limitations like destroyer. Give more freedom and more options to specialize rather than force lock outs.

    If anything, they should change the way we distribute stats and add stat requirements to certain spells and gear.
     
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  11. remixninja

    remixninja Goblin Scout

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    So, I want to state my opinion that coming up with a holistic redesign of the system to try and create archetypes is not only completely unfeasible from a balancing perspective but also something I would NEVER suggest for a good sandbox game.

    Your post instantly tells anyone reading that you have basically redesigned everything with your vision of how to expand upon magic schools.

    To be as Frank and to the point as I can, the game at it's core needs game design discussion, around it's current state. I don't think it's even ready to expand upon and add tons of complexity when what is "balanced" is currently being figured out. Balancing is definitely not an overhaul of the system, but rather an in depth analysis of what is currently happening, and the gaps between what the devs would expect and what the players are actually doing.

    Sorry for the lengthy reply.
     
  12. Catorino

    Catorino Crypt Guard
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    I can't see any reason not to merge a few of the spell schools tbh, Spellchanting is pretty shit overall, Witchcraft is pretty shit overall. Reducing the grind is not a bad thing as long as we get more content to compensate.
     
  13. MikeJT

    MikeJT Black Knight
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    I want fewer store bought classes. Not more. Mage killer/destro/industructible need to be scrapped and the game balanced properly - around specialising through gear. Not by going to a vendor.

    Rolling numerous spells into the same spell despite them being functionally different makes no sense.
     
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  14. ijharb

    ijharb Chosen of Khamset
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    Honestly if your idea got implemented. People who wanted to support would HAVE to stay blue. The Necro class wouldnt exist more than likely, because it sounds like shit.

    LIke people have said before, balancing nightmare.
     
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  15. remixninja

    remixninja Goblin Scout

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    I can't argue with the mentality behind allowing players to waste less time grinding and have more fun, but I also know that over-optimizing can have unintended detrimental effects on game balancing, especially when they are not thoughtfully executed. I would be all for this if I didn't already have faith in the direction of the game currently, however I strongly feel that surgical and well placed balance changes will be the make or break of this iteration of dfo, and will very much determine vet/new player involvement over the next 3-6-12 months etc.

    I can appreciate the idea behind merging spell schools, because its simplifying unnecessary time sinks, but I would question whether that is really the area that needs the most focus! As it stands we can all offer our opinion on how we feel the game should be *balanced*. At the end of the day, what is most valuable right now and in the immediate future, is the direct and honest feedback of our player experience for the devs and game designers to consume and come up with the best path forward.
     
  16. Damaja

    Damaja Goblin Warrior
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    THIS ABSOLUTELY.

    people having to have every skill in game and believing that's freedom are delusional. Please don't tell me you don't need to have everything skilled up in darkfall. If your not speccing destroyer or something then expect to max everything in game or you'll be fighting someone who does and losing.
     
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  17. Obeesho

    Obeesho Frostjarl
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    Having every skill in the game but choosing exactly the right one for the moment of time you are in = Darkfall.
     
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  18. DarkGhost25

    DarkGhost25 Black Knight
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    I agree. However, I would like some customization layered on top, nothing taken away in the form of skills or spells, but something gained in the form of a bonus or penalty.
     
  19. Aristos Giannes

    Aristos Giannes Cairn Giant
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    No thanks, we don't need more classes in this game.
     
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  20. remixninja

    remixninja Goblin Scout

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    There are literally no choices in how you build your character, because everyone can have everything. UO had a good balance of this, mainly because they had a skill cap. Most played tank mages the same way most players in dfo are mages, but the difference was you actually had to give up other skills to be a viable mage.

    In dfo, A player doesn't lose out on any skills until they have decided to deny the spell schools via destroyer. A mage has blinds, rays, knockups, and then to add to it, they hit just as hard and fast as a destro if exchanging melee. Obviously destro is powerful if the situation allows for it. You have to be in melee range, and hit them with their staff out, and have proper gear to send/mitigate enough damage so that the small window pays off well enough.

    Add to it all of the situational and utility benefits of being a mage (like being able to aoe someone bunny hopping away) and you have our current destro players all switching to full hybrid and eventually full mage because it's simply the strongest in 1v1 or small scale.
     
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