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Making Polearms A Viable Primary Again

Discussion in 'Game Design Discussion' started by Dak, Apr 25, 2017.

  1. Dak

    Dak Goblin Scout
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    Change pole-arms back to 0.2 speed so they are viable again. This seems to be working very well in New Dawn from my experience so you all may want to give it a shot as well. It then comes down to the choice of melee weapon one wishes to use (i.e. if you want to stickyback or hit hard)
     
  2. Knar

    Knar Competition Winner
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    All polearms need is to remove the knockback. Citing anything from DND is a bad idea considering how bad they messed up the combat.
     
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  3. Grimtide

    Grimtide Evil Eye
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    dak drakkkkkkkkkk

    offensive battle spiker

    shoot til u die

    fuck statting!
     
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  4. gosti

    gosti Frostjarl
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    Remove holding left click for melee then.
    Great argument.
     
  5. Lexendros

    Lexendros Infernal
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    The 2.0 speed is too much but the 1.0 speed seems too slow.. maybe somewhere in the middle?

    Also yeah removing the kickback would make it viable
     
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  6. Mega

    Mega Air Elemental
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    They're stupid on ND, so easy to hit, even with their Arc nerfed! God knows how easy they're on this version, my fear is I could be blindfolded and still hit my opponent.
     
  7. Scrubby Bear

    Scrubby Bear Eodrin
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    Changing the speed won't make them viable. People were already ditching PA for GS long before the AV PA nerf because they weren't viable then either, it just took people a long time to figure it out and build up the motivation to regrind another melee.

    The single biggest downside to PA has always and continues to be the passive knock back. Its not even a good passive to have because it doesn't work on people moving towards you, only away from you. This renders what on paper might be a decent defensive melee choice into just a bad primary melee choice. I doubt there is a way to make it reliably knock back, so the next best thing is to just remove the passive knock back. Until that knock back is removed, it will always be only viable as a secondary choice.
     
  8. gosti

    gosti Frostjarl
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    I've seen literally two ppl with polearms on dnd.
     
  9. brahji

    brahji Black Knight
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    I thought it was stupid in UW when polearms didn't have a knockback anymore, and I think it will be stupid in RoA if they decide to go that route. I like that polearm is a defensive melee weapon rather than offensive.

    The only way I could agree with removing knockback is if you increased the range slightly, turned the arc into like the same thing as power attack, and made it a poking weapon. That could be cool I guess.
     
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  10. Scrubby Bear

    Scrubby Bear Eodrin
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    But they aren't the defensive melee. The knock back doesn't work on anyone moving towards you. Given the way physics work in the game I doubt it could ever be made to work, at least not in a way where the investment of man power is actually worth it. Even the much more powerful regular knock back abilities often times do not work on people moving towards you. As it stands right now all the knock back does is make it impossible to use them against anyone not trying to melee back, while providing zero advantage against someone that is in fact melee jousting you. On paper they LOOK like the defensive option. In practice they are just trash.

    Also the range of PA is already longer in RoA and they are still trash.
     
  11. Mega

    Mega Air Elemental
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    That's because you have to Grind Mastery's again. We got Legs, he uses them. They're a joke
     
  12. brahji

    brahji Black Knight
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    Well then they need to be completely reworked IMO. removing the knockback just makes them a bullshit weapon for people who suck at melee.
     
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  13. Scrubby Bear

    Scrubby Bear Eodrin
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    They also nerfed the arc in RoA already. Its the same as GS/GA/GH if I remember right.

    So basically its just a slower option that has .1 longer range.

    And a knock back that renders it useless :p
     
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  14. Super Star

    Super Star Oak Lord
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    Would be good attempt to first try and fix the knockback + change power attack from dex/int drain to str/quickness, or remove the knockback if it cant be fixed and then do the same thing with the power attack.
     
  15. Vic

    Vic Spellgazer
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    I haven't tried polearms in RoA, if you guys say they are shit atm then fair enough a tweak is always welcome and we can see how it goes, but I do feel that the knockback should stay. It's pretty much the only unique melee weapon thing in the game and I do remember in early df it was actually very powerful used in the right hands.

    Keep it as a situational wep for those who want to use it that way.
     
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  16. brahji

    brahji Black Knight
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    Fair enough, I haven't played in a few months so maybe I should just keep my mouth shut rofl.
     
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  17. Scrubby Bear

    Scrubby Bear Eodrin
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    Its 'unique' in a way that makes them practically useless, so it should stay?
    There is only one situation where the passive knock back is helpful and that is camping the top of a ladder. In the entire game, that is the only time it is an advantage. Even then however, every single melee wep has a much stronger knock back ability including PA and archery also has a passive knock back to knock people off with. So do you really expect people to grind out a melee weapon that is complete garbage 99.9999995% of the time just so they can knock people off ladders if they happen to miss their knock back ability and have no arrows or regs to cast magic abilities that also do the same thing?

    Basically what is the point of it being 'unique' when not a single person will use them as a primary? That is like saying we should add a weapon that only does 1 damage per hit because then it would be unique.
     
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  18. Vic

    Vic Spellgazer
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    I am sorry but you should not assume that that is the only viable use, you are being extreme to the point of ridicule to prove some sort of point.

    When launch comes out I am sure you will hear plenty of people being able to effectively use a polearm in pvp. Not as their main wep, but as something that you carry on you and use at certain times, if you cannot think of any such situations then don't use them. But I for one like doing things because it seems cool and fun, and to me having a weapon that can knock someone back slightly is definitely fun :)
     
  19. Scrubby Bear

    Scrubby Bear Eodrin
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    Can't wait to see your sick passive PA knock back pvp video.
     
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  20. Bojangles

    Bojangles Varangian Warthane
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    It's always the people who don't play that say to keep polearms the same.
     
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