Welcome to the Rise of Agon Community

Create an account today to engage in discussions and community events on the Rise of Agon forums.

Making Polearms A Viable Primary Again

Discussion in 'Game Design Discussion' started by Dak, Apr 25, 2017.

  1. Umberto

    Umberto Spellgazer
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2015
    Messages:
    469
    Likes Received:
    1,359
    Greatsword arc is 60.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  2. Scrubby Bear

    Scrubby Bear Eodrin
    Hero

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2016
    Messages:
    2,072
    Likes Received:
    5,653
    So the area difference between PA and everything else for a hit is pretty big then. That means balance wise they have to kind of remain shit DPS at least without changing reach/arc, after all it makes no sense to have something be both easier to use and better than other options. The total area that a PA scores a hit is huge compared to every other 2H weapon. Its like 44% more hit area for a PA against every other 2h using 2.6 range and 80 arc compared to 60 arc and 2.5 range.

    At the widest point the PA swing is 2.9566 and GS/GH/GA is 2.5
    The full 'hit area' for a PA is 4.71 sq meters of in game units.
    The full 'hit area' for GH/GA/GS is 3.27 sq meters.
     
  3. Korag

    Korag Evil Eye
    Hero

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2016
    Messages:
    5,641
    Likes Received:
    2,427
    so basically your idea is to leave it as the most unused weapon and worthless except to work as a second whirlwind?
     
  4. Scrubby Bear

    Scrubby Bear Eodrin
    Hero

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2016
    Messages:
    2,072
    Likes Received:
    5,653
    The problem is its range and arc. To make it stronger, you have to nerf those. Do you leave it as the low skill option that is inferior but super forgiving for bad melee players to use? Do you nerf its range and arc and it becomes just another GS/GA/GH with a different skin?

    If it was up to me I would give it some kind of defensive feature to replace the knock back and leave it as an offensively shitty weapon with 2.5 range and 60 arc and no knock back. There are a few options. Passive physical protections while equipped being the most simple. Giving it an auto parry every 3rd time you are hit in melee would be another. Just something that is still defensive in nature to replace the knock back and keep it unique. Someone else can probably come up with something better for a defensive perk.
     
  5. Korag

    Korag Evil Eye
    Hero

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2016
    Messages:
    5,641
    Likes Received:
    2,427
    keep it slow raise its dps, does not need a massive dps increase but if it hits for less and is 2 or 3 times as slow then something is wrong, needs to made more useful.
     
  6. DarkGhost25

    DarkGhost25 Black Knight
    Contributor Hero

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    1,238
    Likes Received:
    1,034
    I used post buff during beta and I found them to be pretty effective, it's just the knockback that forced me to stop using them. A proper power attack will help a lot too. The only problem I have with polearms now is that they're really bad for pve. Not sure how that can be fixed but it would be nice if it could be.
     
  7. Korag

    Korag Evil Eye
    Hero

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2016
    Messages:
    5,641
    Likes Received:
    2,427
    by carrying daggers with you lol
     
    Bartlebe likes this.
  8. DarkGhost25

    DarkGhost25 Black Knight
    Contributor Hero

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    1,238
    Likes Received:
    1,034
    Lol yeah that's exactly what I did :D I still feel it's kind of sad that polearms can't stand up in pve though.
     
  9. Super Star

    Super Star Oak Lord
    Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2015
    Messages:
    3,204
    Likes Received:
    2,255
    each weapon has a different purpose, just like each harvesting tool has its own purpose. I would like to be able to fish with a greatclub, but we all know that wont happen.
     
  10. pkpip

    pkpip Goblin Shaman
    Hero

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2016
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    17
    Honestly in my opinion, removing the knockback would be enough. The tweak to power attack would be a bonus.
     
  11. DarkGhost25

    DarkGhost25 Black Knight
    Contributor Hero

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    1,238
    Likes Received:
    1,034
    Keep in mind that the current power attack is completely useless and not fun :p Anything usable would be great.
     
  12. Korag

    Korag Evil Eye
    Hero

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2016
    Messages:
    5,641
    Likes Received:
    2,427
    how does that even remotely relate? every weapon in game can be used to pve effectively except polearms your comparison sorry to say is horrible
     
  13. Super Star

    Super Star Oak Lord
    Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2015
    Messages:
    3,204
    Likes Received:
    2,255
    effectively? there will always be "a better" weapon for pve, or most efficient way to kill something, every other weapon compared that that one will be slower. Just like certain ele dmg is better for killing certain mobs because they have less resistance. There is just a faster option, it doesnt mean polearms arent viable in pve.
     
  14. Korag

    Korag Evil Eye
    Hero

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2016
    Messages:
    5,641
    Likes Received:
    2,427
    you can spin this anyway you want facts are facts, any weapon in the game is more effective at pve than polearm, I am not saying it is a big issue, just stating a simple fact and also that your comparison is way way off base.

    Effective and better are not the same thing FYI and why you would even attempt to compare the 2 is just simple amazing
     
  15. Super Star

    Super Star Oak Lord
    Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2015
    Messages:
    3,204
    Likes Received:
    2,255
    I dont understand why you wouldnt just use the most efficient weapon to farm something. If daggers are far superior for farming a spawn, use them. If its firebolt, use it. If its arrows, use arrows. Even if my main weapon is GC, GA, PA, etc, im not going to say "aw man, make the 2h i use more effective to farm this spawn", because you dont want to use whats most efficient for whatever reason. Even if every weapon in the game was better at pve than polearm, the spawn you are going to fight is going to have a top weapon anyway. If the weapon strength for a spawn is for example Dagger>GS>GA>PA, daggers are still the best. If the order is Dagger>GC>PA>GA, sure PA is third and GC is better, bust daggers are still overall the best, so u use those.
     
  16. Korag

    Korag Evil Eye
    Hero

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2016
    Messages:
    5,641
    Likes Received:
    2,427
    Nobody was arguing that, your changing your argument, daggers is way more efficient no doubt I was just commenting on your comparison so defend that if ya want or we can move on and he did not ask for PA to be better at farming he said it is too bad that it isn't.
     
    DarkGhost25 likes this.
  17. Super Star

    Super Star Oak Lord
    Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2015
    Messages:
    3,204
    Likes Received:
    2,255
    "I The only problem I have with polearms now is that they're really bad for pve. Not sure how that can be fixed but it would be nice if it could be."

    His quote was asking for them to be better because he said it would be nice if it was fixed.
     
  18. Korag

    Korag Evil Eye
    Hero

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2016
    Messages:
    5,641
    Likes Received:
    2,427
    no he said it would be nice if they could be and that he isn't sure how that could happen, no where did he say please make them pve viable, reading comprehension bro it goes a long ways.
     
    DarkGhost25 likes this.
  19. Super Star

    Super Star Oak Lord
    Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2015
    Messages:
    3,204
    Likes Received:
    2,255
    yea ur right, asking for something to be fixed means he isnt asking for them to be better, i understand now
     
  20. Korag

    Korag Evil Eye
    Hero

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2016
    Messages:
    5,641
    Likes Received:
    2,427
    can you read? did he ask for it to be fixed? he said and you quoted "Not sure how that can be fixed" that is not the same as asking.
    Back to the reason I even quoted your post I am still waiting for you to logically explain how fishing with a club is any where near relevant