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New Dawn is one step forward to release.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Brat, Feb 24, 2016.

  1. Fnights

    Fnights Earth Elemental

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    I have to know everything about DF1 "deep" combat to play melee + archery only?

    Against good players yes, but this with or without good gear. Is DF gear didn't matter so much, it wasnt' a gear based game, mean that if you suck you lose even with better gear, thsi is the good thing to have a full player skills system.

    These abilities are an alternative to trasfers but they need to best casted and keep active aswell.

    First, you assume that these abilities don't need cast time and mana consumation, second you don't consider that among roleplayers there are players that don't like using a staff to heal and buff themselves. Let mages use magic, let warriors use bandages and potions, the purpose is the same based on the situation.

    DF had just 1 monobuild, the jack fo all trades where you learn everything, so it was of course balanced.
    But this system alienate a huge portion of the roleplayers that don't want the melee/archery/magic system and their hotbar fullfilled with 50 spells, rotate r50, rotate r90, rotate instant rays, cast CCs, selfbuffs, crossbuff, etc... was tedious and difficult as fuck for lot of players.

    Like i said numerous times there is lot of people like me that prefer a more minimalistic approach based on a customized playstyle. You shouldn't force everyone to play in one way to compete, or you wil never have a healthy playerbase, expecially is a ffa pvp full loot game.

    DnD is not changing the hybrids, it just adding specs. After the intial beta test there will be nothing to balance anymore once the numbers are in place. What will matter will be only player skills.
    This is, in my personal opinion, the better way to make a succesfull mmoRPG, allow different kind of players coexist in the same enviroment.
     
  2. Leg enD

    Leg enD Ghost

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    cant wait to bindcamp this idiot on both versions...

    you wont be playing either when we're done with you.
     
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  3. Fnights

    Fnights Earth Elemental

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    Was the SG of NEW in Long March (Eu-1), new players get constatly raided by old veterans, so i have a huge experience dealing with bindcampers and nolife macroers characters.
    Come at me at any time, you have to pay and support DnD vision too so is a good exchange, you will incrase the population. Oh, bring with you all your friends too. :)
     
  4. Brat

    Brat Akathar
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    What was your nick ? I remember raiding NEW in LM.
     
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  5. foggen

    foggen Goblin Warrior

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    I can smell Aliases in this thread.
     
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  6. trashsmasher

    trashsmasher Crypt Guard

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    u guys act like roa is the hardcore one

    i got an infraction here for writing a script to replace all of fnights posts with "i have autism"
    even worked on quotes

    yet fnights is getting infractions for being a monogloid over on dnd
     
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  7. Fnights

    Fnights Earth Elemental

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    We were 3 Sg, Torinar Blackhammer, Mordok Stonekiller and me. If you find my name along these 2 i give you a prize. :)
    Also shame on your guild to raid new players. :)

    I deserve that infraction because i get carried away since my experience with new players was very different. Vets always don't like to play or help new players.
     
    #107 Fnights, Feb 28, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2016
  8. Suncross

    Suncross Ghost

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    I dont understand how you all are getting infractions so much. Just post like a normal human being.

    As for this thread... Fnights, bro, ya need to settle down with all the changing darkfall ideas. If you want to win support, then post about these three things: content, content, and content. Also in that order. Darkfall lacked content. Changing a game is like making changes in real life. When you make a certain thing it place too restrictive, then people will stop doing that thing, or going to that place.

    Change pvp too much, then people will stop doing it. Darkfall is an empire building game. Everyone agrees with this, and knows this is true. You people, who are obviously not darkfall vets, get easily confused when we all say "darkfall is a pvp game." What we are saying, when we say "darkfall is a pvp game," or something like that, is that Darkfall is a game that relies on the daily pvp in order to survive as an game (empire building or otherwise).
     
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  9. Synna

    Synna Black Knight
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    he needs to be banned, you all need to add him to ignore.
     
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  10. aparks

    aparks Obsidian Golem
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    Yeah you guys can't post stuff that is overly demeaning to people. Df1 forums>dfroa forums>dfuw forums. Honestly you guys need to look at the demographics of the people working in bpg. Mostly Canadians and Europeans. They are a tad softer than us Americans when it comes to name calling. They have more "politically correctness" than us. But I think in 10 years we would have caught up to them. We're a bit behind on socialism. Also a lot of younger guys (college age) in bpg which makes them even more politically correct.
     
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    #110 aparks, Feb 28, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2016
  11. Nuyur

    Nuyur Wildtribe Mage

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    You dont have to know everything to play a limited set of skills.
    You do have to know everything if you want to make speculations on balance or changes that happen to combat by adding in new systems such as specialisation or title system or new consumable items.

    Heal self costs mana, bandage doesnt. Blind costs mana, flashbang doesnt. Rays cost mana, crossbow doesnt.
    While the prerequisites for using the items may be different, they also dont force you to have a staff out. Which is a vulnerability to destroyers and forces you into a 1st person camera. Its changes things, which is obviously exactly whats intended. But at the same time, you need to understand that the most competative players, the ones that fully (tried) to master combat and improve to be the very best they could be, the ones that stuck with the game because they loved combat so much...they do care about balance a lot.
    They dont want easier combat, less options, restrictions, class systems or any form of rock-paper-siccor balance.

    So when complaints are made, its not because we are against the fundamental idea of changes, but because we think/predict that the outcome is going to be very hard to get right. And because of that, lots of time will need to be spend to consistantly change things to help get to a balanced situation.

    Content, something as simple as a land tower, doesnt need balance changes if you arent an idiot.
    Dont make the reward too high, dont make it happen too often. Done, new thing in the game players can chose to go to or not.

    Warhulks need a rework to be used on a more frequent basis (mostly being able to aim AND drive, or have all warhulks have seperate drivers and shooters). Do this, done. Another thing fixed in the game.

    Crafting needs a rework for it to be a viable role in the community, look at HOW to do that and try it out.
    You might want changes in PvE, in exploration, in gathering, in treasure hunting.
    You might want changes to ships.

    None of these change combat at a fundamental level, while they obviously have a good chance to involve combat. If melee was the only way to deal damage in the game, these systems would still require reworks.

    Those are the kind of changes everybody can get behind, that we can speculate about in a meaningfull way.
    Combat changes will always be doubted, because of the huge range of options there were and the intricaties that came with it.
     
  12. aparks

    aparks Obsidian Golem
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    I hope BPG signs this thing. The longer we wait the more it looks like AV is putting them on the back burner.

    Stuck with DnD (smash my head against the wall).
     
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    #112 aparks, Feb 28, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2016
  13. Nuyur

    Nuyur Wildtribe Mage

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    i hate to be that guy, but if you read only the post made by DnD (ubergames on the forums), its really not that bad.

    They are aware that their changes are going to change HOW combat is played.
    But they dont want to change how combat FEELS.
    This is something that DF UW obviously broke, completely, beyond repair...
    SO dont get me wrong, im apprehensive...
    But their motivation to do so is valid.

    By adding in combat specialisations and titles, you can add in crafter/gatherer specs and titles.
    This will make that type of player more effective at their preferred role, and i honestly dont give a shit if they gather faster, carry more, or craft better. It gives them a role, a purpose, without changing anything in combat.

    The combat changes are ofcourse going to impact things, but it looks like they just want to offer alternatives, not remove the old. This means that, potentially, you could add in new playstyles. Which you'd have to respond differently to.

    Is it that simple? No, obviously balance is a nightmare. But they feel confident they can approach a reasonable level and moniter it over time to make adjustments.

    Given the proficiency that we have with the old system, the new ones will slowly rise into the end game. And if they threaten to overtake completely things will be patched to tone it down a bit (provided its actually OP).

    I hate their suggested changes to water combat, but if you dont want players to view water (almost) the same as a map section of land...you do need to put some pretty serious downsides in place.
    Does that mean everything they've written about it so far is exactly how it has to stay, ofcourse not.

    But in general, i dont think its a bad idea to have more use for ships and warhulks. They were only taken out for asset damage and sieges. (ships for seatowers ofcourse)
     
  14. Mega

    Mega Earth Elemental
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    Let's be honest, ROA has little chance of success even if they get the license.

    Their pop is just going to be the bore fest of 1vs1 ego twats

    DnD have a bit more vision and creativity but I doubt they will last a year.

    Darkfall was best as a large scale warfare game, not the 1vs1 ArenaFall we know ROA will turn into.
     
  15. Brat

    Brat Akathar
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    I don't quite remember those names..The only thing i remember was an elf,or a female human at the bank and i killed it in like seconds..

    What do you mean by ' my guild ' ? My actions are not representing my clan. Plus,we never raided you with 10+. Only 3 tops. Shame.
     
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  16. Fnights

    Fnights Earth Elemental

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    Crap, i 100% agree with you. It was exactly the feel i get when i played DFUW for the first time, "this is not Darkfall", the movement and the combat mechanic were completely screwed, something goes wrong.

    If DFUW didn't screw that felling so much and introducing fixed archetypes (classes) i think more old players still play it today.
    But unfortunatley is too late, UW is a crappy abortion and deserve to be shutted down.

    I think is one of the best things of their vision, if they can bring back the feeling of DF 2009 then i'm sold. Playing melee and archery was a blast for me, and now i can do the same without magic, is a dream that come into reality.
    Was so disgusted by the magic era, that only the destro/mage killer patch give me the strenght to barely continue till 2012.

    I think using harpoon is an interestign approach, also finally you can raise your net avoiding hoppers into you ship. I think is much better balanced risk vs reward side.

    Also warhulk and mounts with packs will be used as caravans by merchant roleplayers to move goods from a zone to another since the economy will be 100% localized without fast traveling.

    Of course you killed them in seconds, all NEW members apart us SG were new players.

    You never raided in force, but 1 of you guys can easily kill 10 new players without any difficulty, they never knew how to zig zag too :)
     
    #116 Fnights, Feb 28, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2016
  17. onslaught

    onslaught Black Knight
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    Stupid. Why even waste your time posting here? Some people(you) are just dumb.
     
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  18. Fnights

    Fnights Earth Elemental

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    DnD will be a sandbox empire building game, not a mere pvp arena, why you think they can last only a year? They planned these changes to work for years. They will also remake the whole graphic to 2016 standars if they get enought subs and support.
     
  19. AdamDMC

    AdamDMC Gravelord
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    Why would you want to be able to lower the nets. Its been done, and it made no one want to fight over ships. Also with this 1 skill cast to auto regen faster, yeah thats sounds balanced. Fighting 1v1 then the dude runs away mounted and heals up fast without having to cast while someone chases him mounted without that skill and he has the ability to reset the fight fully healed. Get out of here
     
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  20. Nuyur

    Nuyur Wildtribe Mage

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    This is exactly what im talking about.
    They've given a number to what the passive regen would be (about).
    The idea is you give up transfers, you pick 1! stat that regens a bit more.
    The number is about 1/6th of what you could achieve with transfers.
    So, looking at it...you obviously dont take mana regen.
    You have a choice, health or stamina.
    Health, while nice, doesnt provide anything if you are winning a fight (once your health is full, you lose your regen. Especially with chases and the more zergy side of things...its not uncommon to be full health almost the entire time. Only to be cut down in seconds when you get caught by a destro).
    Stamina is great, but if you CANT use stamina>health. Im not sure you'd ever really run out (given natural regen+food+pots).
    So maybe you would take mana, because you can always spam more spells and not have to ever health>mana?

    Healing wise you do obviously give up a bit too. A transfer with a 5 second cooldown offering you 30~health.
    So to heal up you are far more limited (especially because of rotations that people used).
    A standard rotation to heal is stam>health, heal self, witches brew, stam>health, pot, mana>stam, stam>health, rage.
    that would offer you 60~90% of your health in like 18? seconds(i cba to do the actual calculations right now, also depends on encumberance ofcourse)

    You wouldnt have that option anymore, you'd be stuck with pot, heal self, witches brew, rage...and then like 15+ seconds of nothing while you wait for heal self to get off of cooldown again.

    The potential of statting up is much lower with the passive regen, but in return you no longer need to worry about using transfers to begin with.

    From what they've written (and i read) they dont think (m)any players will pick it up.
    But they are confident that their math is accurate, so in theory it should be worthwhile to pick up if you learn to combine it with your playstyle.

    Why players would experiment with it, howmuch time you need to learn and even what stat you put the regen on is a big question right now. But you could always not partake in it.
    They admitted that being able to control your stat pool more directly does offer more control to a player, which means that the more versitile setup doesnt use the regen.
    That said, if you can know exactly how to manipulate a situation, exactly how use the additional regen in such a way to continiously put pressure on your opponent, you may well be able to outplay your opponent using that setup. But if the situation is out of your control, you would quickly lose out.

    As you can read, suggestions like these have made me protest them aswell. But the way DnD word it is so much better than others...Not saying the implementation will work out the way they think it will.
    But at the very least they arent straight up removing anything either.
    So if something does turn out to completely crush everything, they will nerf/buff accordingly to create an end game where the top tier players have a broad(er) spread of choices and setups to complement their individual playstyles.