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no local banking

Discussion in 'Game Design Discussion' started by trashsmasher, Oct 26, 2015.

  1. Catorino

    Catorino Crypt Guard
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    It's a theory that has been tried and shown not too work (imo I suppose) it forces the players that move around and pvp alot too keep going back to their bind to stash stuff (rather then the closest bank) meaning they can get less done in the same amount of time. While the players that bank stare barely notice it. The system is basically design too make things take more time then if you had global banking. Which turns players away that can only play X amount of time per day, it makes players that only play to run out and pvp annoyed and it further promotes people to stand in holdings and stare into their bank thinking "I got 2 hours to play what to do" and then they continue doing nothing promoting no activity.

    All of which comes back to making things tedious, causing people to leave.

    "But it works in eve" <- Not a valid arguement, this isen't a spreadsheet, it's Darkfall.
     
  2. Riftmaster

    Riftmaster Deadeye

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    In EvE, you can travel between the banks fairly fast (although still slow depending on distance, it could take hours)
    So some crafters/traders hire people to haul stuff for them
    Those haulers of course have to beware players who want the stuff.

    Actually, with portals and teleport you can basically move all around Agon fairly rapidly, if you have the materials for it.


    You bring up an interesting point about binds though.

    Hmm...might be a good idea if you could bind 2-3 locations, rather than just home? Would provide more flexibility. On other hand, would also mean less chances for PvP against players traveling.
     
  3. trashsmasher

    trashsmasher Crypt Guard

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    having to transport mats on ships would make me want to cut myself
    and automated caravans are bad because it means i have to log on, express my intent to do something, and then log off because its not going to arrive before i have to quit
    these ideas add nothing and they arent fun

    nobody does this
    you'd have to be the biggest idiot in the world to get caught moving mats
    you'd have to be the biggest nerds in the world to bring the 40 people needed to cover an area to catch people moving mats

    why compromise when it does nothing but make the game tedious

    that sounds fun not
    i can spend all my limited game sessions guessing where i need to be for the next big pvp event
    and then hope i got my locations correct and be able to actually play one night a week

    thank you

    it will make people quit because it makes every aspect of the game not fun
     
  4. trashsmasher

    trashsmasher Crypt Guard

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    a recurring theme here is that everyone in favour of local banking has never played a game with local banking

    you're all talking about these wonderful caravans and merchant ships and staking roads to block mats
    but none of that ever happens
    literally never
    no matter how much you want it to
    people just get annoyed at how the game forces them to do minimum wage levels of labour
     
  5. Rawr

    Rawr Chosen of Khamset

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    Just so people are aware this is on the roadmap (word for word):

     
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  6. trashsmasher

    trashsmasher Crypt Guard

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    https://forum.albiononline.com/index.ph ... post207223

    http://web.archive.org/web/201001300054 ... view&id=61

    while df doesn't exactly need anti zerg mechanics (requiring skill to play is by far the most effective anti zerg mechanic you could possibly implement) the sbg logs are absolutely hysterical and i'd hate to see them go
     
  7. DaveBizzle

    DaveBizzle Goblin Warrior

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    I'm personally not a fan of regional banking at all. I think its just tedious and while the concept might seem to have some theoretical positives in reality it doesn't really work out. I have been in the Albion alpha/ beta and the local banking I felt was just an unnecessary inconvenience and by far the most annoying thing in the game followed by predefined paths on the tiles (so annoying).

    I actually logged out a few times because I didn't want to run naked back through 4 tiles from where I had banked my gear that's no fun and no real pvp for those who found me if I did run back.
     
  8. Fnights

    Fnights Earth Elemental

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    Local banks and local resources along with the removal of fast traveling is a extremely important feature to:

    1) promote the trading between players in the same region
    2) promote the growth of a local population and dedicated crafters
    3) promote localized PVE
    4) promote local market places, trade hubs and personal shops
    5) promote RAC clans that can protect new players
    6) promote localized and autosufficient economy
    7) promote tactic, briefing and resource reallocations for clan warfare and sieges

    Of course old players disagree and don't care about meta content, they want just pvp 24/7 and find immediate action without any side activity. But is bad if the game want to turn page and become a true sandbox experience, and create different playstyles among players not interested in pvp.

    Indeed local banking can work better for some regions but will be a hell for others, expecially the races less popular, but the good point of this system are trade routes and regional trades. This will promote the merchant playstyle, the increase of personal shops, traveling across regions, trading hubs and caravans metagame along with race wars to control local resources.

    Another importa feature of local banks is related to the siege and raid system, once you conquer a town you can full loot the bank of the old owner, this will promote raids, sieges, local warfare, and make the player towns more valuable.

    DnD project will be entirely based on full localized banks and no fast traveling (portal chamber will be removed) for this purpose. Local banking is the complete overhaul that will fix the broken and nonexistent economy of DF1 along with the dedicated crafter specializations, a scenario impossible with globalized banking and fast traveling.
     
  9. Erock

    Erock Varangian Warthane
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    Darkfall is a PvP focused territorial control game. It's boring running around and not finding anyone for hours. The game does need sandbox features for new AND OLD players to get out into the world. Why do you operate under the assumption that every vet wants a "pvp 24/7" game? I am a pvp oriented player, but I do actually enjoy and standby Darkfall Online having some of the best PvE even if the mobs were half/fully retarded sometimes. It felt fun and rewarding for me to farm, just as much as it felt rewarding to win fights. Maybe I want to milk cows and make cheese for cooking recipes, maybe I want to breed mounts, maybe I want to just run a small farm by my house in some random village. Now more on subject..

    Local banking does kind of suck when the world is enormous, and travel is limited. Even when my clan had multiple holdings I lived out of chaos cities to farm random materials. People that move around a lot and do not live by the same rules as clans that hang out in one holding all day and farm around it will suffer from this. Even PvP players that go where the PvP is will suffer from this.

    If I want to setup an operation on say Cairn to farm the circuit there I have to first move enough armor and weapons to get there plus reagents, mounts, everything. So I'll be banking in wilderness banks or chaos cities. Now I want to get what I farmed back to where the rest of my stuff is, it just sounds tedious to me. Tired of Cairn? Time to spend an entire day getting setup somewhere else.

    Perhaps something that can tie all of the banks together, make holdings more valuable, and promote territorial control a bit better. Banks on Islands would be connected to other banks on the same island. Cairn connected to Cairn, Yssam connected to Yssam, Niff connected to Niff, Mainland connected to Mainland, Rubi connected to Rubi. Now if all of your holdings were also connected together it could promote warfare to grab holdings on islands with great farm spots.

    I don't know just something else to throw into the suggestion pot.
     
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  10. Erock

    Erock Varangian Warthane
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    Sounds like a nightmare to me, honestly, what is your idea of a "functioning economy"? Original DFO had plenty of merchants and trade spam going on constantly, am I missing something? That sounds functioning to me.
     
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  11. Gruesome

    Gruesome Skeleton Archer

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    The threads suffering from the same short sightedness which seems to worm its way into most threads concerning Darkfall.

    The purpose of regional banking and regional economies is not so that you have added labor of moving things from one bank to another or to create extra work. It's to create added opportunities for other players to offer you a service and engage in trade. It's not forcing you to move your overflowing bank full of pvp suits from one bank to another, but to encourage a scenario where you do not need to stockpile gear as you can more conveniently and quickly buy what you need where ever you happen to be. Most Darkfallers live in fear of low population and failed commerce and see everything through the spectacles of 'self sufficiency', when it was precisely self sufficiency and absolute failure of economics, trade and commerce which directly contributed to a low population. Real life implication would be 'don't start a company until you already have all the employees'. Games don't work like that. You build it and they come. In Darkfall's case, they didn't build it properly and they didn't come.

    You're not going to be stranded; the purpose of dislocating economies is to increase demand and give players an opportunity to be self reliant on the market as opposed to self reliant on themselves or their clan. In order to do this you have to take the plunge and break self sufficiency and promote trading with incentives and limitations.

    This is a necessary step to having a real economy which will offer a range of new playstyles and roles for players. Being frozen with fear to not even try to establish a functioning virtual economy because PvPers are scared something might get inbetween their plug and play PvP would be hazardous.

    Look at EvE and UO for two very different examples of very functional economies. If you have gold in either of these games, you have access to most everyday goods anywhere in the world despite those goods being regionalised and local. If you didn't have gold but trade goods, you could sell those goods anywhere in the world and then buy what you needed. It took countless player hours to make those goods constantly available and its a huge source of content for thousands of people. Such players turned up in 2009 to fulfill these roles in Darkfall but were turned away as no systems or incentives existed to give them a purpose.

    The best way to get goods in Darkfall was join a clan, mine as a clan, chop wood as a clan and craft as a clan. Who needs regionalised or global economies when that's the case?
     
  12. Fnights

    Fnights Earth Elemental

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    I know, you want just mass murder anything move, pratically you want a desert because new player will not stay to play a game where you grind for months, and where you get ganked while you do pve or gathering. Not everyone is into pvp, a sandbox should allow pve and non pvp activities too.
    With people like you the game is a guarateed failure, marked again a s a quake arena gankbox. I'm wondering why you just don't go to play LOL or counter strike.

    Thanks the good at least DnD will have a full sandbox experience and a local/regional market, but hopefully Adrew will underastand how important is have a full player driven economy and lots of people playing around it, and not just pvp 24/7.

    Indeed, so you can kill and full loot them, very good for the future of the game and what the game need to sustain a healthy population.

    Any further discussion with you fraggers is a lost cause so i leave here.
     
  13. Erock

    Erock Varangian Warthane
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    Once again you're pushing me into a pvp only player category, this isn't the case as I stated in a previous post. I want sand, I want things other things to do. I just don't think moving my stuff around and spending hours setting up trades is going to fill that void.
     
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  14. Gruesome

    Gruesome Skeleton Archer

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    I wasn't specifically referring to you :) Also I added an edit to the bottom of my post for greater clarity.

    You won't spend hours moving your stuff around, or even have to 'setup' trades. Those two statements show you're not thinking of this from a perspective of how someone familiar with Eve or UO or other games who have achieved decent economies might.

    It's about changing the dynamic that you come to rely on readily available goods in a player driven market. You won't need to horde or subsequently 'move' any great amount of goods because convenience dictates it will be available to you where ever you go. If anything you'll horde money.

    This needs regionalised banking, regionalised resources and regionalised market places to work. Eve had this in a global auction house where you could buy a good anywhere in the world, but the item was local to where it was put up for sale and you had to travel there to obtain it. Most goods were available in every system however the prices varied on scarcity. UO had this via player housing and player vendors which were literally everywhere. As I said, unlike in Darkfall, a solo player with money could always buy what he needed wherever he needed it. In these games even large clans bought from the marketplace rather than their own clans as it was convenient to do so.

    Both are good systems and Darkfall could do with one or both. Why you wouldn't want to carbon copy Eve Online is absolutely beyond me as it's the most successful example of a virtual economy there will ever be.

    Add a 'NPC Trading Company' in every NPC city and have a global network of auction houses with localised goods and you've just sorted the problem.
     
  15. Erock

    Erock Varangian Warthane
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    Apparently you didn't read my post, most notably the part where I said I'm not a 24/7 PvPer. Enjoying PvP doesn't make you a bloodthirsty pvp 24/7 kill anything that moves person. You tell me to play LoL or Counter-strike? Why don't you go play Elder Scrolls Online? Tons of specializations there. Probably a PvE server too so you can avoid those darned "fraggers".

    In your version of the game does everyone just trade? Spend stupid amounts of time transferring things from bank to bank? Believe it or not PvP is actually a sandbox feature, just like all of the other things you are suggesting. At any rate I'm pretty much done talking to you it's actually impossible to have a normal conversation/debate with you. Probably putting you on ignore. it seems like you don't read a single word anyone says to you, then you reply with passive aggressive comments about how we're going to cause the game to fail. When in all honesty most vets read your posts and probably don't even want to come back to these forums because you've managed to scare them away.

    Just remember you need to learn to meet people in the middle, it's called compromise.

    Compromise - a settlement of differences by mutual concessions; an agreement reached by adjustment of conflicting or opposing claims, principles, etc., by reciprocal modification of demands.

    It's a basic social skill when discussing difference in opinions.
     
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  16. trashsmasher

    trashsmasher Crypt Guard

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    yes it makes prices vary across the world
    no it isnt worth making literally everything else in the game unfun to achieve that
     
  17. Erock

    Erock Varangian Warthane
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    Wouldn't an auction house defeat the purpose of everything you're trying to achieve with player interaction and localized trading?
    I'd prefer bulletin boards myself for all sorts of things. Finding people that enjoy things that you do, trading, clans, looking for groups, etc.
     
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  18. Gruesome

    Gruesome Skeleton Archer

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    I don't care about player interaction I care about the economy working and providing content to players and goods to buyers. It doesn't matter really if a player can see everything for sale in a city in Cairns from a city on Ruby if he still has to go there to get it. If anything you allow players to play stockbroker and to make serious money playing the market and transporting the goods (god forbid more interesting content!).

    In terms of player interaction you have 3 options. You automate commerce with a localised auction houses as I support, removing direct player interaction but maximising availability with automation, or you use a 'bulletin board' to achieve the same thing but make it 'manual' or you incentivise live marketplaces with players spamming in city centers.

    With experience of all 3, the Eve option almost always comes out on top for its efficiency. A cyclical and buzzing economy takes precendent over players having to manually ask players for things and wait for them. As nice as this was back in the day in UO, it's not as fun these days.

    I want to see boats transporting rare ores between islands for no other reason than it being a money making venture. If you need automation of auction houses to make that happen then so be it. If you would rather people talking face to face for some throwback reason then that's prerogative but I guarantee it's going to make the trader/pirate scenario less likely :D
     
  19. Fnights

    Fnights Earth Elemental

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    ^ Also, if you are lazy to pick up a order in another region and want just frag 24/7, you can pay someone else to do this job for you or pay more the crafters to meet at your place (since he have to hire mercenaries to protect the goods), it mean more metagame and more task for people not interested in pvp, incentivate trading between regions and races, with a huge benefit for the local economy and the whole game economy overall.
     
  20. Rawr

    Rawr Chosen of Khamset

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    Yeah I think this is a good direction. Basically I liked the whole house vendor idea, I just want more integration into the game. So something you can walk up to a see the list -GLOBALLY- of all the house vendors you can interact with and buy from. Oh you are in any village/npc town, there's a house vendor 2 tiles over selling stuff cool, ride over, your map gets marked and off you go.

    I like player interaction that's why I play a merchant.
     
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