Welcome to the Rise of Agon Community

Create an account today to engage in discussions and community events on the Rise of Agon forums.

Noob Sanctuary

Discussion in 'Game Design Discussion' started by Rigon, Mar 17, 2016.

  1. Rigon

    Rigon Gravelord
    Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    Messages:
    231
    Likes Received:
    103
    There was a post earlier on removing war decs from blue cities. I think this will really ruin darkfall. There should be no safe zones. It eliminates thieving and banditry. Also, it allows people to just afk craft and gather all day, without penalty.

    So my suggestion is a habitat for new players to live until they are ready to go out into the wild. Shadowbane did the noob island, it worked really good in my opinion. All of your items are left on the island, and you can only go up to level 30.

    EVE also has this mechanic, also player alliances have even setup a Noob Sanctuary in game, take a look.

    http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/verite/influence.png

    Pandemic Horde// Brave // Northern Army. Are all NEW player helping alliances.


    I'll elaborate more when I can have time. Just please don't nerf war decs.


    • An island that is instanced/blocked or walled off. On this tile your stats won't go above 25-30, and skills won't go above 30-40.
    • There's one way out, but no way to go back. Once you leave there's no going back. You can only take what is in your inventory, and you can't be overweight. A portal will tp you to your racial capitol city.
    • On the island, there will be goblins, kobolds, and other noob mobs.
    • On the island will be a clan stone, where you can apply to clans that recruit and help new players. Also you will auto join a channel "NEW" where you can get help from designated vet players. You will also have global chat.
    • On the island, there will be a tutorial, and skill trainers.
    • On the island will be a dueling pit, where you can practice pvp. Outside of the pit, pvp is disabled.
    • The island will be the size of Seelie island. Just copy paste it and make grid for the island have the same skill gain set, also surround it by very high walls or mountains.
    • You are welcome to stay on the island for 48hrs, after that your skill gains stop.




     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    #1 Rigon, Mar 17, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2016
    leth1337, NonFactor, Evilar and 4 others like this.
  2. Lakisuria_Moonglade

    Lakisuria_Moonglade Varangian Warthane
    Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2015
    Messages:
    891
    Likes Received:
    674
    I kinda like it overall.

    Hopefully allow players to choose to skip it during character creation and perhaps create multiple islands to only allow up to 50-100 players on it at a time. Or less depending on what would be suitable. Maybe some dynamic phasing to prevent newbies from getting swamped by each other.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    leth1337 likes this.
  3. RagnarokDel

    RagnarokDel Frostjarl
    Hero

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2015
    Messages:
    992
    Likes Received:
    678
    Make it a floating island/cave/plateau next to capital cities or something like that.
    Hell there's plenty of locations that are naturally built like to accomodate such a feature.
    Human/Elf/Dwarf location 1, 2 & 3
    [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG]

    Ork/Mahirim location 1 & 2

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Alfar Lands location 1 and 2

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    PS: I'm not saying these should be transformed into safe zones, I'm saying they should be cloned and put somewhere as "noob islands" that once you leave will teleport you to the normal world at the nearest city

    1. There must be one per alliance. I have nothing against arac clans but I dont think it should be part of the narrative of the game.
    2. Limit access to it to 10 hours of gameplay.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    #3 RagnarokDel, Mar 18, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2016
    leth1337, PENETRATOR and Rigon like this.
  4. Fenris

    Fenris Celestial
    Hero

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2015
    Messages:
    635
    Likes Received:
    714
    I don't like the idea of an instanced starter area, especially if new players can grind their character to 40 in any skill. Allowing skills to be leveled unopposed until level 40 is ridiculous, even with a 48 hours time limit. And disabling PvP everywhere on that island except a little puny arena? Don't make me laugh. New players have to get used to the outside world and all its dangers.

    The starter quests gave ample supplies to new characters and were restrained to a relatively safe area, with several hard-hitting guard towers in close proximity. Going farther for better quest loot meant more danger and was perfectly in line with Darkfall's mentality. I admit that better directions to the starter quests would be needed if the newbie pop-up instructions after character creation aren't clear enough. Maybe also better rewards or at least more useful ones.

    Tutorial and trainer NPCs were all around the starter zones. With a little bit of reading, you got the directions to find them pretty quickly. I admit the NPCs could give better information about the game, not just generic no-brainer horse shit. (WSAD to move! NO SHIT!!)

    The idea of a clan recruitment stone sounds pretty good, but those could also easily be placed in front of the capital cities, in lieu of or alongside sea tower statues (which allowed only the sea tower victor to recruit with it). The clan list in the player's journal serves roughly the same purpose, but ALL clans are listed. The clan recruitment stone could allow only willing clans to recruit with it, especially those who want to teach new players, because starter cities are where newbies hang out the most.

    Overall, a bad suggestion with one good idea. 2/10 revise your Darkfall. :)
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    #4 Fenris, Mar 18, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2016
    Strip Tease and Smoke like this.
  5. PENETRATOR

    PENETRATOR Earth Elemental
    Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2015
    Messages:
    404
    Likes Received:
    145
    What we are trying to achieve on noob island is for noobs to learn combat mechanics, transfers, and just basic shit like that.

    So now, a noobie might not quit due to basic frustrations like dying to outside mobs and players because they forgot the sheath button, got paperdoll locked or removed stamina to health from hot bar by accident and shit like that. It doesn't hurt anyone if noobs come out of noob camp with 0 inventory and 40 in some basic skills. Noobs can get used to dying to players outside of noob island. For new players, dying to mobs and getting drylooted is already a heart pumping experience.

    This noob island should be optional and should last a very limited time. 10 hour gameplay time is good
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    leth1337 likes this.
  6. Fenris

    Fenris Celestial
    Hero

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2015
    Messages:
    635
    Likes Received:
    714
    Still completely useless in my opinion. If someone rage quits to goblins he won't get far in Darkfall anyways.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    Smoke and Damaja like this.
  7. PENETRATOR

    PENETRATOR Earth Elemental
    Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2015
    Messages:
    404
    Likes Received:
    145
    How is it useless? It allows people learn basics without getting Ginger Magician'ed at noob spawn
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  8. Postman Pat

    Postman Pat Akathar

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2016
    Messages:
    259
    Likes Received:
    110
    won't stop you though

    Ginger will hunt you down and make you lay on the floor like a dead dog
    --- Post updated ---
    agreed
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  9. PENETRATOR

    PENETRATOR Earth Elemental
    Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2015
    Messages:
    404
    Likes Received:
    145
    Haha funny thing is I used to rape Ginger on a daily basis.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  10. Fenris

    Fenris Celestial
    Hero

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2015
    Messages:
    635
    Likes Received:
    714
    Noobs can learn the game in the normal game world just fine.

    LOL! Nice phrasing.

    I agree that sucks. When that happens, you use your brain like this:

    - Go to Race/Race Alliance or Clan/Clan Alliance
    - Signal assholes camping your new ass
    - Batman players like Lycanthrope Skinstripper come to the rescue and clean up the playing ground for you. You might even get some free loot in the process! If Batman isn't available, do something else until the bottom-feeding pansy leaves.

    Let's not cater to new players with piss-poor attitudes with a propensity to rage-quit. This is Darkfall. It's a hard game.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    #10 Fenris, Mar 18, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2016
  11. Postman Pat

    Postman Pat Akathar

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2016
    Messages:
    259
    Likes Received:
    110
    #deluded

    You are no match for ginger, #noob
    great post
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  12. PENETRATOR

    PENETRATOR Earth Elemental
    Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2015
    Messages:
    404
    Likes Received:
    145

    You are mistaking what this new player experience is bringing. Basic combat mechanics are not simple for a new player. There is a lot to learn about Darkfall, and basic shit should not be stressful.

    Imaging a brand new driver of a manual car being put on a highway in Atlanta.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  13. Crash

    Crash Skeleton Archer
    Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2015
    Messages:
    113
    Likes Received:
    52
    I'm hoping thats what the new player experience re-development if for. I personally dont like this idea either of the instanced island described above, instead they should have a mini tutorial explaining the different mechanic's and if it were to be instanced, don't put it on the live map. Make it like runescape's tutorial island for example where they can learn how to sheath and unsheathe their wepons, have heal self bound, skills only level to 3 while on the island(probably maximum of 5 or 10 in darkfall because 40 is wayyyyy to much). I feel like it would actually be worse when they get off the island and get killed a few times over while they try to farm in "peace" and rage log after farming freely for 48 hours to get some if not all skills to 40. But the if for whatever reason they do add an instanced zone please do not put it on the live world map, make it like a dungeon and when they come out they would not be able to go back in.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  14. Fenris

    Fenris Celestial
    Hero

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2015
    Messages:
    635
    Likes Received:
    714
    I know they're not simple, they're not supposed to be simple. Mastering anything in DF is rewarding as shit, especially in the psychological department. Know how I felt when I got down the basic movement and fast-weapon switching mechanics? I felt like Tarzan swinging from vine to vine banging his chest yelling WOOOWEHEHHEEEOWEOWHEWOEHOWHEWOOOOOOOOO

    That's player progression. It's a good thing. It keeps a man alive. Adding better explanations from NPCs or in-game pop-up textboxes about how to set up your hotbar properly, how you can rebind your keys, how you can set up macros, etc... renders the whole starting island area useless.

    The whole point of leveling in DF is to see your character go from Urkel to Rambo. *feelsgoodman.meme*

    If a new player doesn't get it, too bad, the door's there. There's plenty of theme-park MMOs for them.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    #14 Fenris, Mar 18, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2016
  15. PENETRATOR

    PENETRATOR Earth Elemental
    Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2015
    Messages:
    404
    Likes Received:
    145
    I know what you are saying and I agree.

    What noob island (OPTIONAL + SEPARATED FROM MAIN LAND + NO INVENTORY TRANSFERRED TO REAL GAME) does is it separates learning curves.

    1 thing to to learn PvP, different mob types, whole Darkfall world map, politics and everything else Darkfall is about.

    YET Learning basic mechanics is completely different thing. It is in a completely different category. I hope you can understand that.

    It doesn't have to be a noob island, it can be taught in game as well. It just needs to be optional, on a timer and in a controlled environment.

    I will say it again to reinforce what it is for: it is to learn basic mechanics, not to learn gameworld and how it's played (PvP, Mobs, Gear etc).
    --- Post updated ---
    Were you his friend? If you were, it was an uncommon thing for me to bulldoze 5+ people. If all 5 of you had a chance of the noob island, maybe you had a chance fighting against pro players like me. That's what noob island will bring, it will help noobs like you to get adjusted to combat mechanics early without being interrupted. I'm helping you, not myself. Stop being delusional!
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  16. Fenris

    Fenris Celestial
    Hero

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2015
    Messages:
    635
    Likes Received:
    714
    Learn PvP on an island where it's disabled? Did you even read the original post?

    No inventory transfered to the main world? That's not what the OP suggested.

    The world map, politics and mob difficulty scaling can be explained in-game via a revamped tutorial. "It doesn't have to be an island", that's what I'm saying since the beginning.

    I fail to see how withholding new players from the main world is useful. The sooner they are exposed to danger, the better. Learning basic mechanics should take 1 or 2 hours, maximum. And that's how long the player protection lasted if I remember correctly, plenty of time to get the basics down. Stretch it to 3 or 5 hours if the consensus is that it's not enough time.

    A shit ton of people played The Elder Scrolls series, and Darkfall is very similar in its basic mechanics. It's not rocket science. Why should we cuddle retards before chucking them into a ruthless world? Why should the devs build from the ground up a starter area for the few people who are completely gaming illiterate? You're biting way more than you can chew if your first video game ever is Darkfall.

    48 hours on a carebear island is useless, even if it's optional.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    #16 Fenris, Mar 18, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2016
    EliPorter likes this.
  17. Rigon

    Rigon Gravelord
    Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    Messages:
    231
    Likes Received:
    103
    tbh, me making this suggestion should surprise you guys. I just hate hearing these things.

    A.) Game is not noob friendly

    B.) Nerf war decs because GPS and other guilds grief new players in blue cities.

    C.) Im bad at DF.



    TLDR:

    It's just an idea, other games do it and it works pretty good. It's also object to testing and tweaking. What darkfall really lacked was the ability to retain new people, hence why the game evaporated.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  18. Fenris

    Fenris Celestial
    Hero

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2015
    Messages:
    635
    Likes Received:
    714
    I agree. The tutorials should go way more in depth as to what to do to be successful. I.e.: Explain transfer mechanics and such thoroughly.

    I agree with that as well, there has been a lot of good suggestions in the thread discussing war decs.


    You may not be, but your suggestion is.



    Again I agree, but you have to draw the line on how much you can hold the hand of new players. More engaging activities for new players like a mentoring system are good ideas. Don't get me wrong, I'm not disagreeing just for the sake of arguing. This forum is a place of discussion and everyone should be able to input their ideas and have them criticized, positively or negatively.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    Evilar likes this.
  19. PENETRATOR

    PENETRATOR Earth Elemental
    Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2015
    Messages:
    404
    Likes Received:
    145
    ^^
    This was my first message in this thread explaining how it would work.

    Skills up to level 5,10, 20, 30, 40 it doesn't matter. During that 10 hours the only skills/spell that might be at (imaging number, say, at 40) would be 2-handed, 1-handed, block, archery, lesser magic, heal self, transfers and basics skills like jump, run, sprint, rest etc.

    I think everyone will be okay if noobs had these EXTREME basics to be mini-viable at the first real goblin spawn that has 4 noob killer clans like GPS jumping everyone.

    Do not forget that at the beginning of the game there were 20+ people per spawn.

    Allowing noobs prepare somewhat and blame themselves and character skills/spells level instead of game mechanics will let us have a much larger population.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    #19 PENETRATOR, Mar 19, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2016
  20. RagnarokDel

    RagnarokDel Frostjarl
    Hero

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2015
    Messages:
    992
    Likes Received:
    678
    I'm against disabling PvP on those but it should definitely be off limits for vets so you dont have assholes chain killing newbies
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature