Welcome to the Rise of Agon Community

Create an account today to engage in discussions and community events on the Rise of Agon forums.

NPE thoughts

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by kinglear, Dec 6, 2018.

  1. kinglear

    kinglear Frostjarl

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2017
    Messages:
    981
    Likes Received:
    879
    Making this to try and help BPG come up with some ideas for how to help the new player experience

    One thing I’ve heard several times is that the quests aren’t very good at teaching, nor do they provide any direction for new players.

    I feel like some of the current tasks (the early mining, fishing, the ones for killing goblins/trolls and others) could be remade as quests to give new players an exact direction to move in. (A quest that tells players they need to kill 50 goblins to raise their weapon/magic skills, stuff like that)

    I also feel like a quest line that uses those gathering tasks to introduce players to different crafting skills and explain how gear works could be useful

    Also if anyone plans to remake a DFU type clan, I think now or in the near future would be a good time. As long as a DFU type ranking system was in place (I think it was captain and up were vets, everyone else was new) I would pledge to not kill those noobies, and im sure others would. I also have metric tons of mats to make low level gear I can turn into starter sets if people want it.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  2. aparks

    aparks Obsidian Golem
    Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2015
    Messages:
    1,519
    Likes Received:
    868
    Ya I HATE tasks in games I see it as a cop out for doing legit quests.

    That said everygame is doing it now adays and the majority of sheeple actually like tasks for example steam achievements type bullshit where you unlock cards aka game pics of the game.

    So maybe roa devs did it right.

    I’ll never understand what gets people off on tasks, soooo time consuming and boring with little payout.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    koruun likes this.
  3. Bartlebe

    Bartlebe Chosen of Khamset
    Loyal Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2015
    Messages:
    723
    Likes Received:
    1,094
    Someone people need a little carrot to chase. Tasks are a pretty simple carrot but that works for some people.

    Something I was thinking about when people were talking about login rewards or daily tasks, was having a daily events tab when you enter the game (can be turned off ofc). The daily events tab would have the daily kill tasks for easy/med/hard mobs, latest news updates from the devs, announcements about global events and a few lines about your personal progress. "You can unlock X skill in 1 more skill level," "You've collected 10,000 gold this week," "You are close to unlocking the X ability."

    This kind of stuff may sound silly to you guys, but I think these little carrots and reminders really work. If people need a little direction, it keeps them focused and would keep all of this info in one place they'd see upon login. Rather than checking the various tabs and windows, the daily stuff, messages, announcement and some personal stuff would be in one window.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    koruun, onslaught and Fengor like this.
  4. Brando Pando

    Brando Pando Goblin Warrior

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2016
    Messages:
    38
    Likes Received:
    77
    I think one important thing would be to get new players into a clan early on. This game feels very desolate compared to other mmos and its difficult to figure out all the nuances of the game, even with tutorials/quests/ect. Clans give new players the opportunity to learn, meet people (which is difficult in this game compared to others), and participate in the funner activities like seiges/pvp/bosses.
     
    Fengor, Nugsbunny, koruun and 2 others like this.
  5. onslaught

    onslaught Black Knight

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2015
    Messages:
    1,182
    Likes Received:
    711
    One starter town for each race.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    koruun and Sero like this.
  6. Sero

    Sero Forest Golem
    Loyal Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2016
    Messages:
    4,994
    Likes Received:
    6,265
    This is actually a good idea, but they'd need a full time world builder to demo down the old towns and replace them with more goblin spawns :p
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    koruun and onslaught like this.
  7. koruun

    koruun Gravelord

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2016
    Messages:
    232
    Likes Received:
    335
    Here is an excerpt from my write-up on improving the NPE that focuses on this subject, so I'll copy-paste it here. The entire essay can be found here, if interested. It deals with the topics of GUI, Tutorial Island, and inherent flaws in Darkfall's current NPE.

    https://forums.riseofagon.com/threads/the-new-player-experience.17112/


    Excerpt
    Early Game Content
    Assuming that a Tutorial Island of some form will be implemented, which will cover at least the basics of the game, in my opinion the next important phase for the NPE is the Early Game Content, or EGC. This refers to the available content within the NPC cities and their surrounding areas, from quests to dungeons and skill development. While the Tutorial Island will attempt to hook and immerse the new player in to the game and the world of Agon, the EGC will be critical in making sure that the player’s first impressions stick.

    As it stands, the current NPC town zones and surrounding areas are heavily underutilized and are so barren of meaningful content for the new player that they help to expel the player from the game, instead of sucking them in. The solution can be found, in my opinion, by introducing the following within new player/blue/NPC zones:

    1. Dynamic content

    2. Immersion of the player in Agon through quests and lore

    3. More interactive experiences

    4. Condensed NPC centers


    Currently the dynamic content within the starting / npc zones are lacking, when they should be an important tool for engaging the new player. Dynamic in this case should be taken to mean lively or active, and can be achieved through a mixture of organic and “trigger” based events and activities. This will help slow down the game for the new player, and give them more choices as to how they spend their time in the game during the early stages. I believe that this would be much more preferable to a new player over the concept of immediately beginning the skill grind to viability. Because it has become quite easy to reach viability, there is no reason that a new player’s time should be rushed or channeled towards grinding, which can become dull quickly, and instead they can really plant their feet into the game and world. Just as an example, a lesser form of treasure maps could be added to newbie mobs and chests, which give compelling items and rewards, while Selentine chests and the like could also be boosted in terms of interesting loot (that doesn’t necessarily have to be on a linear loot table, and can include fluff or interactive items). As another example, something in the spirit or vein of randomly appearing mob spawns, bosses, or portals could be implemented. This would give more vitality or freshness to a phase in the game where the player is many times solo and without the game’s core features, as mentioned earlier with the current faults of the NPE.

    Falling in line with my suggestions for features on the Tutorial Island, the EGC needs to immerse and draw in the potential player through the use of quests and other engaging activities that help familiarize them with the lore and world. This is especially important to the EGC if the Tutorial Island is simple and brief, lacking these features. These quests and tasks could be relevant to the region and surrounding mobs, drawing on the mob settlements and ruins/unused buildings to tell a story. The substance of these quests could range from heavy to light, or in other words progressive of a story or simply a random quest to collect some mushrooms for a farmer’s wife’s son. If the Tutorial Island indeed does not have any meaningful storylines or questlines, all of the suggestions mentioned under the Tutorial Island section would be relevant to the EGC. Quest rewards could include weapons and armor, skill-ups, resources, unique items, fluff, etc.

    Also relevant to drawing the player in is a more interactive experience within the starting zones, something that is seriously lacking and dilapidated at the moment. Currently, most buildings in the NPC towns are useless and inaccessible (door is closed, nothing actually inside), providing no activities or content, only aesthetics. It almost feels like going to museum or zealously over kept house, where you can look but not touch or interact with anything. At the same time, objects such as chairs, tables, barrels, and chests are generally not interactive, and don’t instill the proper feeling that they should. A an example for a workaround or rework of this issue, irrelevant/inaccessible buildings could be replaced with building assets that are accessible, where quest/activity/event NPCs could be located. Even small cottages could potentially be placed in predefined slots to compliment the upcoming Dynamic Housing System. In regard to items such as tables and chairs, simple board games or the like could be set up within NPC towns, with solo or multiplayer capability. Consequently, this could help alleviate “bank staring”– because of the nature of Darkfall (player-driven content), there are times where we don’t want to log off, but at the same time have nothing going on. Also, add some interactive NPCs if feasible, for holy heaven’s sake the only ones in-game don’t even move, and feel and act like statues more so than interactive denizens of Agon. They could give interesting information about the region, trigger dynamic events, be used in quests, you get the idea. In general, objects or other useless facets of NPC towns could be used interactively for quests and other events. Another simple addition could be foodstuffs such as carrots, onions, potatoes, and apples spawning and becoming lootable much like mushrooms and papyrus are, but in relevant spots of course. In terms of the new player interacting with the skills and spells of Darkfall, there is very little exposure to the combat nature of the end game. In my opinion, giving newbie mobs weakened (skill level 1 or lower) versions of field AoEs, bolts, rays, de-buffs, etc. could help introduce the new player to Darkfall’s diverse spellbook, while better engaging them in terms of interesting combat.

    Finally, I believe that an important way to enhance the EGC and by extension NPE is to condense the NPC centers, meaning towns. At launch, one of the most daunting issues I ran into in helping new players was that they were constantly getting lost within some of the NPC towns. From the feedback that I received, the towns were hard to navigate, with relevant locations such as crafting stations and quest NPCs impractically stretched out and hidden within a sea of useless buildings. Although I understand many will disagree, in my opinion condensing the NPC towns / locations (excluding the capitals) to perhaps one to three per racial region, with the others being replaced with smaller, more easily navigable quest hubs. These outposts that replace the extra centers could be tailored to keep the racial architecture and flavor. As I said, I understand many will disagree with this suggestion, but I personally believe that there are too many NPC centers at the moment that are rather useless in relation to their size. Another alternative would be to downsize some of the locations to make them more easily navigable / traversable.
    --- Post updated ---
    Even reverting towns to simpler questing / banking outposts would be an idea!
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    Fengor and Uncle Jo like this.
  8. Sameog

    Sameog Dire Zombie
    Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    Messages:
    131
    Likes Received:
    164
    Pvp viable default binds, with a tutorial that takes you to a mob spawn, and guides you through swapping weapons and casting all of the spells in big letters on screen. Then rewards for practicing using the bindings and doing "tricks" like jump kiting with fireball etc...
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  9. aparks

    aparks Obsidian Golem
    Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2015
    Messages:
    1,519
    Likes Received:
    868
    I said this many times before but I’ll say it again.

    This game needs NPC Guilds to join for each race and style of play. I use Elderscrolls single player games as example, mage guild, fighters guild, the assassin guild, merchants guild etc.

    Df needs at the very least in each capital city a fighters, mage, and crafters guild that hands out legit quests and ranks. Players should be able to rank up in these guilds and gain rewards, titles, and special guild costumes.

    There should also be a pirate, bandit, and assassins guild in the center of Agonschaos cities for players wanting to be red.

    Players can be in guilds and clans but if they are blue can’t go red or they will be kicked and lose all guild ranks and titles and same goes for reds if they turn blue.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  10. GrimReapiN

    GrimReapiN Chosen of Khamset
    Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2015
    Messages:
    728
    Likes Received:
    512
    New characters start with certain spells already.

    Would be nice if a new player knew what they do, their importance, and how to level up.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    Fengor likes this.
  11. prowess

    prowess Goblin Scout
    Benefactor

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2017
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    14
    Comprehensive walkthrough on the bind system, also would be helpful...
     
    Mea Kulpa likes this.
  12. Scrubby Bear

    Scrubby Bear Obsidian Golem
    Hero

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2016
    Messages:
    1,917
    Likes Received:
    4,937
    Quest should be redone. They should be essentially a guide that gets a newbie to 'end game' with some wealth. Right now they are 100% wasted content that serves no purpose. The current rewards are garbage and the current writing is garbage but the system is already there so why not utilize it to a positive end. Seems like a low cost high benefit thing to me but who knows maybe not.

    When a new player logs in for the first time they shouldn't be lost and completely directionless. They should be guided through the character grind, mechanics of the game and even lore of the game before being set free. Quest would be a perfect way to do this since most RPG players are looking for quest right away when they log in for the first time. Would be a nice clean way to explain what spells do, what mobs drop what, how pvp works, how to bind stuff, ect.
     
    Fengor and kinglear like this.
  13. Nirazu

    Nirazu Deadeye
    Hero

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2016
    Messages:
    155
    Likes Received:
    227
    I've often thought about restarting something like this. It brings a lot of good to the game to have a place where new players can gather, learn and practice the game under easier conditions.

    However I think that ultimately it leads to these groups of noobs just getting repeatedly beaten up in/around their city because of the lack of significant vet presence drawing high level pvpers elsewhere.

    If there was a strong core of individuals willing to commit to the idea it could work, but overall I actually think it's better for new players to join clans of established veterans who have other goals that will protect and teach their new players in a much more personal way.

    It's the same kind of thing with NEW, everyone threw all the new players in the game to one clan but most of the time they were just getting crushed in their cities.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    Fengor likes this.
  14. kinglear

    kinglear Frostjarl

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2017
    Messages:
    981
    Likes Received:
    879
    I’m not sure how it was prior to me joining, but DFU was actually incredibly safe at the time I joined. I was brand new so maybe kids were getting capped left and right and I sidn’t notice, but it felt safe. Especially since vets knew certain ranks were vets, generally lieutenants and lower were rezzed even if killed
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  15. Nirazu

    Nirazu Deadeye
    Hero

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2016
    Messages:
    155
    Likes Received:
    227
    Fair enough, I was never closely involved with DFU, I know the perspective from NEW a lot better and it was something that they often struggled with. Really what's most important is establishing whatever clan it may be as a long standing piece of infrastructure. NEW was able to survive through more than DFU, but the problem both faced was longevity (the same issues that new players face). There just needs to be more for these vets to entice the new players with, so it comes back to the loop of a lack of content.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature