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OFFICIAL GAME DESIGN POLL #2: Bunny hopping !

Discussion in 'Game Design Discussion' started by DestLocke, May 6, 2016.

?

What, if anything, should be changed about bunny hopping as it currently exists in the game?

  1. Nothing!

  2. Direct effect mechanic (i.e. Increase stamina loss with impact damage specifically)

  3. Indirect effect mechanic (i.e. increase armor/weps durability loss with impact damage specifically)

  4. Nerf mechanic (i.e. Death on impact damage)

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. DestLocke

    DestLocke Chosen of Khamset
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    One of those age old topics, but worth getting some feedback on. A lot of people loved bunnyhopping, myself included, but to what degree it was ever intended to be in the game is debatable. Alas though, it is one of those things that over the years defined Darkfall as unique. I'd like to know what types of mechanics people would prefer when it comes to addressing bunnyhopping (if at all). This is more of a conversation starter than a "pick between these specific ideas". Much like the crafting poll did, hopefully this will spur some new and fresh ideas that nobody has even thought of!

    Please do not hesitate to share your opinions and ideas in this thread! Just keep it constructive!

    Thanks!
     
    #1 DestLocke, May 6, 2016
    Last edited: May 6, 2016
  2. LunaryaSol

    LunaryaSol Goblin Warrior
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    i'll say my view on both sides of for and against.

    On one hand, it is a good reward for players who practice/learn to do it well, you can escape from certain death or catch up to a fight to aid allies, and adds a variable to player encounters and as chasers you either work together to stop them from hopping or chase after with your own hopping.

    On the other, it can be frustrating to have players just hop away once they are in danger and not being able to catch up to them if you aren't as good at it can get old. You just want to fight them but they can just get leagues ahead of any mount, and because they are so far ahead, they just let their hp drain since they won't die from the damage, and you aren't close to finish them.

    My personal view is the direct effect option. This way it is still a useful mechanic to master, it just becomes more of a decision during battle, if the bhop risk is worth the stamina loss, as well as having to maintain your stamina to be able to get away instead of letting the HP bar soak everything without care.
     
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  3. Erock

    Erock Varangian Warthane
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    Something maybe worth looking into, have 75+ begone the same as 50+? If you really want to nerf it... Begone is the only one that really stands out above all of the others.
     
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  4. NonFactor

    NonFactor Forest Golem
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  5. SavKjarr

    SavKjarr Goblin Warrior
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    I'm torn between having damage capped but allowing it to kill you, and having impact damage increase stamina loss.. Ultimately I think death is the better option overall because it makes more sense in every way to me at this point. Not only NOT allowing you to escape a fight just because you are on the losing side, which is the main problem of bunny hopping (i.e. you have less health, you get less hops, the other guy who was beating your ass is still at full health so you're not getting away at 10 HP without dying after the first hop anymore) also a high stamina loss on impact is a pretty big indirect buff to mages and knockups.
     
  6. kilrain

    kilrain Shadow Knight
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    I like stamina loss idea. It makes it more difficult for a runner/chaser to regen stats and provides yet another reason to get on a mount instead.

    However, this will also change the dynamic of a fight with knockups and wof+come hither etc.

    I would definitely like to test the stamina drain model because it might even be nice to have a reduced health impact cost to help even out the fight scenarios. Just a thought.
     
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  7. Mighty Mouse

    Mighty Mouse Akathar
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    If anything just make it easier so everyone can do it =] make it so you can jump even further. I want a ski spell so I can move like I do in tribes for a short period of time.
     
  8. Benevolence

    Benevolence Akathar
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    I'd say go with death from impact damage.

    You have to look at this from an over-all game-health level. One ability should not be able to decide the outcome of most engagements. A lot of people will vote to keep it, but thats because the people voting are DF vets who can use it well, and don't actually understand things froma game-health level. they only care about winning. If you want this game to succeed, it needs to allow the newer players coming into the game, and the less skilled players overall to secure kills at least somewhat reliably if they out-fight their opponents. That doesnt mean make zerging the go-to, but it also means that realistically, 5-10 average players should be able to finish off the highly skilled player that they caught. If the skilled player is already in a full on engagement with all of them, they're already a dumbass despite all the mechanical skill they may have. Situational understanding, and picking engagements/stringing out is just as much a skill as mechanical ability. bunny hopping and the like when u dont suffer from it nullify anything but the mechanical skills.

    bunny hopping should be a way to gain good distance, but not infinite jumps to easily escape as long as you are better at that one skill. Another player or gorup can be better fighters, but weaker jumpers, and lo and behind, the jumpers can permanently reset fights until the other side messes up.

    this is part of what happened IN UW where run builds were all the rage. as long as you were better at running away you could reset repeatedly until you got a favorable fight. That does take a certain skill, but it minimized to the point of nullification the ability to win the actual fight reliably. as long as you are good enough to get a good roll on someone every once in a while, you would win.

    thats why i think making bhops kill you at instead of staying at 1 hp is better. It rewards players who use it intelligently to kite a fight and string out their enemies before commiting on a quick turn, and punishes those who would overstay and try to leave only when they're below half and in actual danger.
     
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  9. SomeBK

    SomeBK Infernal
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    This is where you correct an issue by simply leaving it alone and change another related aspect so everyone is happy across the board.
    Increase the speed of all mounts by double and players will begin to justify using a mount to chase.
    The player(s) bunny hopping away can still get away but if a chasing player has a mount and can also skillfully bunny hop, he may be able to bunny hop to only half life before determining he can chase the rest of the way on a mount to which an opportunity to land a killing blow may appear.
     
  10. SavKjarr

    SavKjarr Goblin Warrior
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    Definitely increase mount speed.. Mounts should always be the prime way of travel next to portals.
     
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  11. Inositol

    Inositol Obsidian Golem
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    Bluetails are already the best way to travel. Bunnyhopping isn't sustainable long-term, it's for chasing and running.
     
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  12. SavKjarr

    SavKjarr Goblin Warrior
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    True. I would still like to see them faster than they are currently. Agon's a big place.
     
  13. Void

    Void Varangian Warthane
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    ONLY CHANGE TO BUNNY HOPEING SHOULD BE IT WORKS THE SAME IN ALL DIRECTIONS , OTHER THEN THAT CHANGEING BUNNY HOPEING WILL KILL DARKFALL
     
    #13 Void, May 6, 2016
    Last edited: May 6, 2016
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  14. Inositol

    Inositol Obsidian Golem
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    Well, any faster and bunnyhopping wouldn't be a viable form of chasing someone anymore. As it stands right now, even if you're chasing someone north-east, as soon as the BTR breaks out of a 3 hop range, then the chase is over. There are a few exceptions to this, like if you're on one of the very few places in Agon with absolutely flat ground and few to no obstacles, but generally it's a good rule of thumb.

    If the running BTR is within a 3 hop range, then you're risking (potentially) your entire health bar to catch it. And even if you do catch it, if you're low on health, you need to immediately play defensively, giving the runner three options, either spawn another bluetail and make the chaser exhaust more stats(at this point, many people will give up the chase, it's very risky), turn and fight the (injured, potentially 1 hit) player with a huge starting advantage, or just start bunnyhopping themselves.

    I honestly don't think bluetails need a buff.

    The annoyingly large size of Agon is another issue that's unrelated to the balance of bluetails and bunnyhopping.
     
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  15. AbyssWalker

    AbyssWalker Air Elemental
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    nothing must be changed,pls dont touch bhop,its balanced bhop because you take damage when jumping.If you dont like bhop in df1,then you must not ask to fix it,you must just play another game then if you dont like bhop in df1
     
  16. SavKjarr

    SavKjarr Goblin Warrior
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    That's all good info to consider. I'll admit I'm no vet, with only about a year in UW (where you could die from hopping, yet it was still very effective).

    My main point on making mounts faster is if the devs are in fact going to push bunny hopping into situational use only while in ground combat (I.e. Hop, LoS a tree, stat or mount up and run) that mounts speed should be increased and without any other reason not too.
     
  17. Inositol

    Inositol Obsidian Golem
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    That was already a viable (and in most cases optimal) strategy.
     
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  18. The Law

    The Law Goblin Warlord
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    Wish there was a 5th option "Remove fall damage", regardless I chose do nothing. Please remember strafe jumping was never intended in quake either, but it became apart of one of the many skill sets one had to master making quake one of the highest skill ceiling games out there.
     
  19. RoD

    RoD Undead Dwarf
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    should work in all directions
     
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  20. savage

    savage Goblin Warrior
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    Touching bhopping in any way is like slowly transforking DFO into Unholy Shitness.

    Please dont touch this and focus on relevant issues.

    Thanks
     
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