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OFFICIAL POLL #1: Crafting Masteries

Discussion in 'Game Design Discussion' started by DestLocke, Apr 13, 2016.

?

What types of mechanics do you think would be best for the game in both the short and long term?

  1. Hard limit on number of active masteries (based on total number of masteries)

  2. Exponentially increase gold cost per mastery

  3. Exponentially increase grind per mastery

  4. Hard Limit along with some mechanic to allow additional masteries with some penalty to PvP prowess.

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  1. DestLocke

    DestLocke Chosen of Khamset
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    A hot topic indeed, and worth gathering some unbiased feedback.

    So, what types of mechanic(s) do you think would be best for the game in both the short and long term?

    Vote not as a player who's experience or playstyle may be altered one way or the other personally, but instead vote as if you were only concerned with what would be best for the game overall in the short and long term. Allowing multiple answers, as all of these could be combined in one form or another.
     
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  2. rhoapower

    rhoapower Goblin Scout

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    Out of the four options, I prefer the first, but none of them are ideal for me. Increasing the gold or the grind are terrible ideas in my opinion, because people who have above average free time to play will always have enough... well, time, to obtain the items needed to fullfil the higher grind or gold requirements. So this change is almost irrelevant for them, while it restricts what other players (who have less time to play) can do even more.

    Limiting PvP prowess just to obtain better crafting options also doesn't make sense in a game like Darkfall, where PvP is the main aspect of the game. While specialized crafters who would give up PvP prowess to obtain more crafting options do exist, I believe they are very few, so this solution would not benefit the game as a whole, only a small niche of players.

    The best option in my opinion, and one that should be in the pool, is the creation of new skills, Gathering and Crafting Specializations, as I posted in the discussion thread for the delevoper blog #4.
     
  3. Mega

    Mega Air Elemental
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    I'm not liking the wording on any choice.

    Went for 'Hard limit on active masteries'

    Limit masteries to 1, or 2 if you must.
     
  4. DestLocke

    DestLocke Chosen of Khamset
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    All it means is, you can switch if you want, but you'll lose any/all progress you had made in them. AKA reset.
    --- Post updated ---
    For you maybe, but not necessarily everyone. Maybe someone just wants to craft, period. That's who this option would mostly appeal to. The thing I don't like about it is people would just make alts for it.

    That sounds like a whole new system more or less, but I don't think I saw your post. We're trying to avoid a revamp at this point, at least for the first "rev" of the crafting system. But anyway, PM me the long and short of your idea.
     
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  5. Tuloth

    Tuloth Infernal
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    I can't take back my vote, but I originally voted for #4, but after thinking about the possibility of a vet making an alt to do all his crafting and give up the PvP prowess on a character that will never leave a city, I'd much rather vote #1.
     
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  6. rhoapower

    rhoapower Goblin Scout

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    Ok, I PMed it to you. I posted it in "Discussion: Developer Blog #4 - Tuesday, April 5th" only yesterday, so maybe that's why you didn't see it. It doesn't look like a complete revamp to me, just the addition of some skills which can not all be had by the same character.
     
  7. Australian

    Australian Crypt Guard
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    Wheres the choice for 'no artificial limits on crafting to encourage people to buy multiple accounts to be self sufficient/attempt to create more player trade'? If you think forced diversity and limitations in what people can craft will help the economy, have a look at what effect it had in Mortal Online.

    A totally different solution is required imo.
     
    #7 Australian, Apr 16, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2016
  8. Ogrinn

    Ogrinn Deadeye
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    I see the merits of having a hard cap or increasing cost/grind, but I don't think there should ever be a character penalty.
     
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  9. SavKjarr

    SavKjarr Goblin Warrior
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    I don't see a reason to limit the way a person wants to play. Limiting crafting masteries forces that style of play into roles, it's no different than making pvp characters only be able to master either one melee weapon, or bow, or have access to elemental magics. It's forcing roles anyway I look at it.

    My vote isn't on the list but goes to keeping the game open to all, any way they want to play.
     
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  10. Magnum Effect

    Magnum Effect New Member
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    I think having the game open to all as a true sandbox is the way to go personally. Really, if someone has more time to play the game than a casual gamer, then yes he should be better at whatever he wants to do. Work hard and put in the time you should get rewarded for that. If you're a casual gamer you can buy what you need if you don't want to put in the time. It cost the crafter to make it so it isn't free for them too. Some of us make it available to you on vendors and trades for the casual gamers.

    EDIT: I think they should find a way to engage casual gamers also though. I just don't have anything to offer on that yet.
     
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  11. Vandal

    Vandal Goblin Shaman
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    I dont like any of the options except for increased grind per mastery.

    Limiting masteries just makes a crafting play style obsolete.
     
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    #11 Vandal, Apr 16, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2016
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  12. Finnad

    Finnad Air Elemental
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    If you let people have extra masteries at the cost of -Pvp skills then every clan is going to simply have a clan crafter alt again.
     
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  13. Beradule

    Beradule Goblin Warrior
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    This is what I agree with above me.

    I only voted for the increased gold option because it was the least shit of the shit ideas. That way I could still have all the crafting mastery skills on my character and the grind would not be any tougher material wise. I just gotta spend more because I love being completely self sufficient. My option is still doable, just more of a pain in the ass.

    I understand this is supposed to be for the good of the game not to be selfish, but I am always going to play this way. I don't think my style hurts the game though. I believe you enhance those that only craft with buffs or something, but don't limit me from making the basic gear bag on my own. You also hurt pure crafters who only want to craft with those changes above.

    Look at dwarves as they are, they are the best character for crafting because of the extra dwarven dura. They also had highest starting wisdom. I couldn't stand to play them in pvp. I felt like there was a drawback to that. So I played a human instead an crafted slighty less durability gear. I felt like a human male was better for swinging a greatsword in melee, which I preferred to push into.

    I could still make the same stuff, it just wasn't as good. Now this isn't a great example but it gives you the idea. I was never limited from making anything. There was just tradeoffs an options. We need more of those.

    More things like Destro that you can opt in and out of, but never reset or lose progress from your one character per account.
     
    #13 Beradule, Apr 16, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2016
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  14. WyLd_SyDe

    WyLd_SyDe Spellgazer
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    imo you never want to make people choose between pvp and crafting... you just pretty much gotta do both or 1 amazingly well
     
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  15. Green Chili

    Green Chili Spellgazer
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    I think something has to change from original DFO in order to really allow crafting oriented players to have a niche.

    If crafters are more unique, (a.k.a. not everyone can easily craft everything they want) this should also open up the door for a more healthy selling/trading economy.

    My vote - allow 2-ish masteries as originally planned at the normal progression for everyone. ... then exponentially increas the amount of time it takes to get mastery in each additional craft.

    No hard limit, and if you choose to become a hardcore crafter, knock yourself out. It's going to take a lot of time and resources, as should naturally be expected, but no hard limit.
     
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  16. Julious

    Julious Goblin Scout
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    I don't think you should sacrifice PVP skills for Crafting Skills this will just fuel "Altfall"

    I agree with making masteries a bigger grind, it gives more meaning and sense of achievement once obtained. The reality is, Masteries are end game content for Crafters, so it needs to be slow for Longevity reasons.

    I agree with capping masteries but not capping to one mastery, this will kill the game for Crafters. You need at least 2, one resource that will help fuel the economy and also pay for your second mastery etc. And then something crafters to do after achieving that! (Individualisation, another topic!)

    Also we need to have some kind of trade off from PVP - Crafters, The path of the crafter can gain access to a post-crafting mastery in specialist gear and equipment such as war machinery or specialist PVP gear and weapons. The path of the PVP'er can use the before mentioned items and also maybe get a slight stat boost. It cant be anything major as this would cause a void between the two but big enough to make a difference and have reason to doing it.

    Also being able to do everything is great at the start of the game, it fuels the economy because people need this that and the other but at end game or 2 years later say, the economy dies because no one needs anything they have all the masteries and can go harvest for a short while and just make it them selves at a fraction of the cost.

    We need limitations to fuel an economy along with regionalisation (another subject).
    If you need to make say a helmet and it needs Theril Ingots, you don't have the mastery to make the ingots so have no choice but to buy or loot them. That alone will fuel the economy.

    What ever choice you make with crafting it will have an impact on the economy aspect of the game, so we need to have a separate discussing on that topic alone. I think that will also help people decide what should really happen to crafting. Their are plenty people out their that have great theories on what wold make a great economy builder.

    See you all soon.

    Julious Dreadking
    --- Post updated ---
    Also an issue you may find with this thread is people log in and Vote, then read the comments and realise their vote would have been different had the read first.
    Please post if you do this so the dev's can get a more accurate vote poll.

    <3

    JD
     
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  17. rabies

    rabies Deadeye
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    why not slow down crafting supermuch, meaning instead of 1000 crafts.. to level it becomes 5000 crafts, so in the end if you have enough money or resources.. you should not be limited to just 2 crafting masteries (or getting your hard earned skills reset).
    I always liked being a commited crafter and this does hurt my playstyle,
    However as stated earlier I totaly believe in making the grind A LOT harder, Crafting should be special, maybe even add more racial bonuses to things so 1 or another race have a nice advantage over others when it comes down to crafting.. (dorfs get better dura, Alfars get more speed on their weaps, orcs get more DMG on their weaps, etc) Something to enhance races more, just no extra for humans as tbh... they already have enough advantages in the game (best hitbox/reach).

    Please reconsider a hardcap.. I dont think it will be fun, it will be a drag... cause in the end if the game does lose population I'll have to get more accounts (trust me I wont lol, I'm not going to nerd out like last time) or me having to team up with people which I might not even like because they got the other skills.

    In all honesty, I hope maxing out all crafting will take me over a year... It's a good reason for me to keep playing, I even hope that unlike AV you guys can add in more weapons and armor (racial armor)
     
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  18. MtH-HrT

    MtH-HrT Goblin Warrior

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    I chose the first option, and I'm pleasantly surprised for your openness that can make the market more sustainable than in the past.

    The 3000 keys that you have deployed in a week, are all dedicated players with a high number of hours a day to devote to the game.
    As in DFO they want to be everything, be pvper, pvers, crafters of all things, gatherers of each resource, traders, explorers, soloists, conquerors of cities-hamlets-villages, etc.....ALL.
    This type of players are FUNDAMENTAL for the game. They are the real engine, the real core for the end-game. 3-4000 of them are able to move the wars all over the map, and surely in the coming weeks their number will increase even more, hopefully at least up to 10k.

    But every engine needs a lot of fuel to run well in the long period. This fuel is represented by casual players, and in one server with 10k dedicated players, you need at least 20k players not dedicated.
    The famous noobs that many despise, but that everyone would like when you end up wandering for hours on the map in order to find only a handful of players.
    Players who spend little time in pvp, with little experience into the end game, but who prefer to privilege the RPG part of an mmo.

    As I said earlier, I'm pleasantly surprised by this your openness towards an RPG aspect of Darkfall, but it isn't enough to have me and my little guild on the boat along with those who consider themselves "wolves".
     
    #18 MtH-HrT, Apr 16, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2016
  19. Damaja

    Damaja Goblin Warrior
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    What does the first option mean when you say "active masteries" ? does this mean you can max them all but just need to choose which ones are active at what time? if so how many at a time can be active? and how would you switch between active and non active ones? a timer involved like when you leave a clan? an npc you would have to visit to switch?
     
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  20. aparks

    aparks Obsidian Golem
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    Idk why people want to limit what they can do in an open world sandbox mmo. I say just make each mastery cost like a 100k gold. First one 10k gold.

    Nerfing and limiting content to each individual is not thinking outside the box. In fact it's hindering them and the game from the full potential.

    Finally all mmo's that limit crafting to 1-4 out of a dozen choices all have MULTIPLE characters per account. @DestLocke would ROA be giving us 4 toon slots like all other mmo's you guys try to steal ideas from (uo, Eve, wow, mortal, etc)

    I believe that's why AV initially made the choice of freedom for every player to have every skill, spell, and craft because it gets rid of the useless need of 4 toons per account like all other mmo's.
     
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    #20 aparks, Apr 16, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2016
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