Welcome to the Rise of Agon Community

Create an account today to engage in discussions and community events on the Rise of Agon forums.

OFFICIAL POLL #1: Crafting Masteries

Discussion in 'Game Design Discussion' started by DestLocke, Apr 13, 2016.

?

What types of mechanics do you think would be best for the game in both the short and long term?

  1. Hard limit on number of active masteries (based on total number of masteries)

  2. Exponentially increase gold cost per mastery

  3. Exponentially increase grind per mastery

  4. Hard Limit along with some mechanic to allow additional masteries with some penalty to PvP prowess.

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Fawley

    Fawley Infernal
    Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2015
    Messages:
    545
    Likes Received:
    382
    Having an endless grind kind of goes against the reason we are doing this which is to make crafting have value. If everyone gained value from crafting your justice bringers or spider bows then no one will be willing to buy them for a profit.

    Increasing the grind also just delays the inevitable where everyone eventually maxes out their crafting and the same issue persists. I don't think it's a fair assumption that we can make that in a couple years time, a lot of new players will exist that would be willing to buy goods off the veteran craters. Even if that did happen, it would mean new players that wanted to craft would never be able to catch up or sell their inferior products for a profit.

    The exponential gold cost per mastery idea is practically a hard cap at a certain point. If the pricing went like 10k to 100k to 1mil to 5mil then you'd almost never see a person with 4 mysteries except for the Uber rich or Uber dedicated crafters.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    Kozzion and Damaja like this.
  2. Damaja

    Damaja Goblin Warrior
    Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2015
    Messages:
    38
    Likes Received:
    35
    Allowing complete 100% availability to everything in game has its draw backs as well. Having the ability to max every single thing doesn't equal freedom necessarily. Having the ability to choose what you want at any given time in the rules set out by the game is still freedom.
    I know its not exactly the same but a quick example would be Destroyer abilities. We just accept that the way it is because it was like that when it was first introduced. I don't hear anyone saying Not Fair! I want double damage for everyone that I hit when they have a staff out plus I want to knock them up when I cast fireball too! you sign up for trade offs when you sign up for destroyer and gain some advantages.
    I think the same could be argued in a way for something like limiting crafting skills per account. What it does do is cut down on the amount of people that might do so. In return I think there is some big upside to diversity and promoting trade in the world for the life span of the server.

    I'm not sure which side of the fence I am on tbh I'm just playing devil's advocate here when I think about the possibilities.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  3. Baboo

    Baboo New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2016
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Unfortunately, I don't see an option for "None of these", so I wasn't able to vote. All of these ideas are pretty poor for a sandbox game. I don't think any of the proposed ideas are going to make more people play this. I would be focusing on the new player experience instead of this if I were you.
     
  4. Fnights

    Fnights Earth Elemental

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2015
    Messages:
    413
    Likes Received:
    25
    Hard limit on number of active masteries (based on total number of masteries)

    Voted this, limit it to 2 per account, but is useless if you don't put in any NPC/Player/Chaos town a market place where people can buy/sell/order stuff.
     
    Edge likes this.
  5. streaml1ne

    streaml1ne Wildtribe Mage
    Loyal Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2015
    Messages:
    302
    Likes Received:
    228
    Wouldn't it be better to conduct these polls through an email to your entire Alpha base instead of only the (vocal/opinionated) subset that actually use the forums? This has been a problem throughout all of DF history IMO. It's anecdotal, but in my group of 8 people I play with I'm the ONLY one who actually uses the forums. You're not casting a wide enough net to get opinions on these topics. In Eve I've gotten emails with surveys both as a subscriber AND as an unsubscriber. That's the only way you're going to get a true opinion on the game.
     
    Aristos Giannes likes this.
  6. Aristos Giannes

    Aristos Giannes Cairn Giant
    Hero

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Messages:
    2,828
    Likes Received:
    1,933
    I chose gold because I recall the value of gold being pretty abysmal near the middle/end of the game. The game needs more gold sinks. Rare ore was the most precious commodity, especially selentine since it was the hardest rare ore to come by for some ridiculous reason.
     
  7. WonderBread

    WonderBread Goblin Shaman

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2015
    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    25
    What this guy said, and why are crafting mastery limitations a design focus atm? Isn't your approach a LDHI one? This seems, at the very best a LDLI situation. Designing changes that make an actual difference (positively) in game economics and play through crafting limitations is a lot of work with most likely not nearly as large of an economical/play impact as other things like redesigning armor,(why is there really only bone armor and heavy armor? Wheres actual high rank leather/cloth gear?), loot table balance, world design (to help with the exploitation of mobs that drop good items/influence the economy, etc?
     
  8. Spewart

    Spewart Goblin Scout

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2015
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    4
    Just leave it like it is. The devs should stick to fixing bugs, exploits, etc. and adding new content.

    Every game design change they make takes us one step closer to another Unholy Wars.
     
  9. Ch4r4x

    Ch4r4x Winterbound
    Hero

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2015
    Messages:
    479
    Likes Received:
    337
    I voted nr1. People commenting need to learn what the words "sandbox" and "freedom" means. They seem to believe they translates to being able to do whatever you want whenever you want it.
     
    Edge, Fnights and Damaja like this.
  10. DestLocke

    DestLocke Chosen of Khamset
    Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2015
    Messages:
    756
    Likes Received:
    1,299
    This is just one thing we are focusing on.
    --- Post updated ---
    Our focus will continue to be LDHI, but we also have to begin to consider the bigger tasks that require an overarching focus on top of LDHI. Right now, that's crafting. This is just one decision we have to make on crafting that I thought I'd toss out there. As far as the emails, at some point we may, or build them into the launcher or what not, but we're just not there yet.
     
  11. Synna

    Synna Black Knight
    Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2015
    Messages:
    1,251
    Likes Received:
    642
    Considering this is just a semi-clever way to encourage alt accounts and won't effect the game in any real way, i didn't vote.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    JasonDark likes this.
  12. Ivanhoe

    Ivanhoe Crypt Guard

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2016
    Messages:
    199
    Likes Received:
    102
    Better would be to just implement ingame poll at login.
     
    JasonDark likes this.
  13. Fawley

    Fawley Infernal
    Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2015
    Messages:
    545
    Likes Received:
    382
    I can tell you with confidence that this idea had nothing to do with moving people towards creating more alts for monetary gain. I feel that this is obvious when you look at the harvesting changes we plan on making that will most likely remove all harvesting alts from being used and paid for. My philosophy is that if you create a great game and stop worrying about ways to make players pay more money then you will have a larger player base which creates more funding for the game at the end of the day.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    DestLocke likes this.
  14. Synna

    Synna Black Knight
    Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2015
    Messages:
    1,251
    Likes Received:
    642
    It may not have came from that interest, but given the options in the poll (i assume whats being considered) all it does is promote alts without doing anything:

    1: Make a couple alt accounts
    2: Doesn't really do anything, just prolongs everyone having everything
    3: Doesn't really do anything, just prolongs everyone having everything
    4: Make a single alt account

    If a "meaningful" way could be found then i would be all for it, but none of these options are it.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  15. RagnarokDel

    RagnarokDel Frostjarl
    Hero

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2015
    Messages:
    990
    Likes Received:
    666
    I dont want to see anything removed from the game and as such, I have voted on increasing the cost/grind but what I would have liked to see an option to vote for other with a specification. You have already read my proposal of adding grandmastery and style books but I'm still going to share it in spoilers in case anyone wants to read it.

    Style/Recipe Books

    What if each race had their style for each type of weapon (until the higher ranks where there are less options currently in game) and they could get a recipe book or just a style book to gain the ability to create other races style by killing specific creatures in that local area or buying them from other players?

    Obviously we would be able to trade those recipes which would add to the economy.

    You could also have very rare recipes that only drop on world boss like the weapons designs that won that competition in DFO (I know Geck Zilla and Inositol or Nat made one)

    This currently only works for weapons but I'm sure it'd be possible to find a similar gimmick for armor and other crafting skills without turning the game armors into power rangers suits. It would also work for ships with custom sails and maybe eventually hulls.

    Grand Master Status

    When you reach the max level for a crafting skill as well as learning all recipes for that skill, you gain a small bonus on the items you craft for example +5% durability.

    • This would improve the depth of crafting, adding a bit of content for crafters
    • This would add a new twist to the economy without unrealisitically changing the balance
    • Grand Master Status adds more length to epeen.
    source
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    JasonDark likes this.
  16. Quin Tessence

    Quin Tessence Black Knight
    Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2016
    Messages:
    1,207
    Likes Received:
    761
    Ok guys, this is how limits work. In Ultima Online your given 700.00 points to level up what ever you want as high as you want. At 100.00 skill your peaked and can craft the best stuff or PvE / PvP

    Ok so how do we bypass this limit.... me make another character.

    In Darkfall we have 1 character therefor Someone is going to pay for another account because 10$ a month is like nothing for someone who has a job. This person with more accounts now can multi box and effectively has a huge advantage especial if they have kids.

    Solution.... Charge more money to not have bull shit limits or..... Add professions to the game!

    Want to PvP... join the "Warriors Guild" get access to X amount of weapon skills pay the warriors guild a stipend or do quests for them
    Join the "Mages Guild" get access to X amount of magic schools pay stipend or do quests for them
    Want to craft? "join the "Merchants Guild" pay a stipend or do quests for them (trade runs) get access to all crafting mastery

    Sorry if this post comes off as a lil hostile, but people who invest time or money should be rewarded not given bull shit limits.
    That my suggestion of the year, I hope some of you guys think this way of thinking is more acceptable, because screw Option 1 on this poll, I'll be out of this game within a year of release. :sleepy:
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    JasonDark likes this.
  17. Down Syndrome

    Down Syndrome Fire Elemental
    Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2015
    Messages:
    438
    Likes Received:
    230
    Why limit it at all. Either go with exponential costs, or no limits at all. Look at EVE, a rather successful sandbox game, there are no limits other than time. Everyone can do everything with enough time sank into an account. If you can stop the rampant exploitation of mobs and duping of items, this is a non issue. It will take a really long time to max one mastery even more so for all of them. I really hate diminishing returns, but if these are my only choices then I'd go with 2/3.
     
    JasonDark likes this.
  18. streaml1ne

    streaml1ne Wildtribe Mage
    Loyal Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2015
    Messages:
    302
    Likes Received:
    228
    Doesn't help you find out why people left which is just as important in alot of cases. Forumfallers can say all they want that "the game just wasn't for them" but it's more than likely the market just won't be big enough without some changes to bring more sheep/carebears into the mix.
     
  19. Green Chili

    Green Chili Spellgazer
    Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    460
     
    #39 Green Chili, Apr 17, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2016
  20. Rochus

    Rochus Goblin Warlord
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2016
    Messages:
    89
    Likes Received:
    27
    Darkfall needs the gold sink to obtain a healthy econonmy, and the argument that casuals can´t do all masteries then and hardcore players are favoured isn´t legit, first of all it´s a mmo, there are other players that can help you, and second but more important in my eyes, a hardcore player deserves some benefits for the time and effort he put into this game, wheres the point if a 4 hours/week player has the same masteries like the harcore player after the game is up for half a year? Besides that the game needs regular improvements (PvP, PvE, Fluff, everything) because it´s not new, lots of players know it, all of it.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    JasonDark likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.