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Discussion in 'Game Design Discussion' started by DestLocke, Apr 13, 2016.
Most ppl won't have alts.
Why should you limit the stuff that people can craft? No,just nooooooo
I was one of the richest players in the game, and while many people may think I was this crazy crafter, I actually didn't create wealth from crafting - I created wealth by buying other people's bulk "grind" at below cost because they couldn't sell it otherwise. I added value by enchanting the items, then reselling them. And the only reason those sold was because they were enchanted, so I leveraged the value of enchanting mats to move otherwise undesirable crafted items. Actually doing the crafting of those items wasn't worth it most of the time - I was much better off directly selling the raw materials for more (what's wrong with this picture?). Dedicated crafters were basically poor because they couldn't turn a profit on anything once the jack of all trade syndrome set in. So, to limit is to add value to actual art of crafting. I'm not saying it's the best way to do it, I'm just saying that is the school of thought that has lead us to that as a possibility.
If that is the solution you came up with for that problem, I am a bit worried. To me that is like trying to fix your transmission by replacing your tires.
I suggest bonus skill ups for selecting a crafting option that does not produce goods. You could eliminate fails and let the grind be X% faster.
What do you mean bonus skill ups for selecting a crafting option that does not produce goods? Like you craft, and get nothing?
I think he's suggesting a way to speed up the grind by trading the item for more exp. Say r40 gs gives +10 exp+ R40 GS. But you can choose to not get an item at the end of the craft and be rewarded with +15 exp instead of 10. So instead of making 1k cloth pants, for 1exp each, you make 1k cloth pants for 1.25 exp each and receive no cloth pants but more exp.
combine that idea with exponential increased crafting costs maybe? although getting nothing out of crafts sounds a bit too "easy mode" for me
The first is definitely the best option, with the long term state of the game in mind.
agreed. people can make the argument that oh people will buy alts and max them that way. most people who bought alts in df1 are going to buy alts regardless of this change whether it be for gathering, or a personal dungeon buffer/scout, its going to happen.
I voted more gold cost for masteries because as others have said you didn't give us the leave it alone option, and it's pretty clear it's going to change weather we like it or not. I'm trying my very hardest to "vote as if you were only concerned with what would be best for the game overall in the short and long term". I just don't think any of this really changes much end game.
You keep looking back on a dieing game and I think that is dangerous for the future of this game. Of course no one wanted any of that crap everyone was maxed out and wanted the best gear there was. If you guys do this right and we have a large thriving population then there will be consumers at all levels not just the end levels like we had, keep that in mind. You've created this jack of all trade syndrome that wasn't even a problem. If you want to base changes on a game at it's end of life when we all knew it was then where do you draw the line? The mats will always be worth more than than the millions of shit tier items you have to make before you can make the good stuff. How about this for a solution everything breaks twice as fast or just no grinding at all no more wasting valuable mats on non-valuable stuff, that way the people that want to craft can gather up mats and craft the stuff people want and the pvpers can go out and pvp till their heart's content.
And so it begins...
I was wondering when some of you guys were going to try to change the game by putting in artificial restrictions. One week into Alpha, after taking money from your playerbase with a biased poll that favors creating alts isn't right.
It's the main reason I haven't financially invested in the game yet. I want to see where you are going (especially with some of the more notorious "just put restrictions" staff like Kasmos on the team).
You really need to get some people with more vision in your group, that can think outside the box.
That being said, there is merit in the fact that a crafter playstyle will eventually be useless since everyone will end up being able to craft everything.
My solution would be to ADD specializationS to every crafting mastery. Each player could only choose ONE specialization, but still be able to have all masteries.
The specializationS would be vanity based (NOT COMBAT RELATED).
For example, if you chose a specific Weaponsmith Mastery Specialization - you could dye your weapon during the crafting process (making your weapons rather unique, assuming you add in plenty of colors to choose from).
If you chose a different Weaponsmith Mastery Specialization, you could change the way the weapon looks during the crafting process (making your weapons again stand out, assuming you add in plenty of different designs to choose from).
You could go even further on this specific specialization by throwing a character's race in the equation. For example, an Alfar that chose this specialization could make weapons that look different then Mirdains that chose the same specialization.
This would give your team stuff to work on that ADDS to the game, not take away from it.
This would also 'fix' both sides of the issue.
Hopefully you guys can at least make better polls, ones that aren't biased - by giving an option not to change things, as well as an option to post a suggestion that could work as a better solution.
Edit: I don't have a problem with solutions 2 and 3, I just don't agree with the decision to put out an official poll with any solution to artificially restrict vanilla Darkfall. If you propose this one week into Alpha, what else do you have in mind (as far as restrictions, in the future)?
Sounds good if done right and in a meaningful way.
The problem with DFO is the lack of diversity in skill sets. Everyone is fighting clones of each other with the only differential factor are AHK setup and playerskill in smaller fights. (DFO shines in large scall fighting where you actually have a lot of diversity because you NEED it in sieges)
You mentioned UO . They actually had a pretty great setup where you could mix and match whatever skills you wanted but lead to a lot of pretty cool templates. And only reason for merchant accounts in that game were due to not being able to switch "active" skills on the fly. If they allowed you to GM every single skill but only "activate 7X or 10X or whatever that would have solved needing alt account issues for crafters.
Until you make crafting an actual skillful thing to do, where do you don't just click a button, I don't see the point in messing with it. Like others have said, people will just get around the restrictions with alts, and restricting it like this will do nothing to improve the game. Just leave it how it is and invest your time on the things that actually need fixing until you are committed to an in depth overhaul.
It's just a poll, the sky is not falling! I don't think your idea for specializations would be enough to do much though, since they are just cosmetic basically? Sorry I have to run atm I'll take a closer look at this later.
--- Post updated ---
What did you have in mind? Match 3?
As i've stated above, people are going to purchase alts just like they did in the original DFO regardless if theres a crafting mastery cap or not because they served additional purposes such as gathering/dungeon scout/dungeon buffer etc. So this should even be a cause for concern. As far as making crafting "a skillful thing to do", what do you propose. There isnt really much you can do in terms of making the physical process of crafting active.
What do you mean no grinding at all? Like everyone can just craft everything right away?
Sudoko with a time limit? Minesweeper? Anything like that, where your skill in a mini game like that determining whether your craft fails or not would be more skillful then the current system.
But a system like that would be very hard to create correctly, have it be skillful, not have it be abuseable, and then also fit into the whole Darkfall theme. Considering how many other things are broken, the time to create it vs the benefit it would grant is not something worth pursuing.
Why is this even being considered? I don't see how limiting how many crafting skills one character can have will any impact on the game other then annoying a few people. Can you explain to me what you think would happen if you limited people's maximum crafting masteries to 2?
There would be a value set on those crafted items now more so then before. Everyone could craft everything before, so there was no need for a crafter. In the proposed system, with only have 2 masteries, if you choose Alchemy/Enchanting mastery you can now only craft up to plate armor (for example) you would have to find someone who could craft full plate and above. Thus giving those that have selected armorsmithing mastery more value as compared to now where everyone was self sufficient and those dedicated crafters were pretty much useless.
Pretty much what Bloodscar said directly above was the thinking when we initially considered some version of changing the ability for everyone to do everything to the full extent.
When I started Darkfall I never wanted to be a crafter, I had to become a crafter because the alternative was not having gear. People would charge what they thought was fair on the market, and then people realized that in a full loot game you don't really own anything.
Why would I want to pay someone gold I could use to skill up my character to craft me something they don't "own"
You might think its a great idea to artificially inflate the value of items, but in the end of the day those items are only worth what I'm willing to pay for them. Not what your willing to sell them for, because you may have crafted them, but you can never own them.