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OFFICIAL POLL #1: Crafting Masteries

Discussion in 'Game Design Discussion' started by DestLocke, Apr 13, 2016.

?

What types of mechanics do you think would be best for the game in both the short and long term?

  1. Hard limit on number of active masteries (based on total number of masteries)

  2. Exponentially increase gold cost per mastery

  3. Exponentially increase grind per mastery

  4. Hard Limit along with some mechanic to allow additional masteries with some penalty to PvP prowess.

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
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  1. Synna

    Synna Black Knight
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    you will never make crafting valuable while its based on number of crafts with no sink to get those 500 jbs back out of the game without hitting the economy, all bandaids (because this is what this is, make no mistake) will easily be able to be circumvented
    --- Post updated ---
    and i say every single person to ever play the game will have 5 alts, logic.
     
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  2. samuel lambburg

    samuel lambburg New Member

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    if the goal is to make crafting profitable, none of these types of restrictions will do anything. you will still end up with the same problem - too many items with not enough demand.

    in the real world, crafting is only profitable because it takes brainpower/time to actually learn the skill and actual time to produce the item + you need specific tools/equipment to do so. which sums up to a whole lot of time to finally get the desired good. more time = money/profit because as the old saying goes "aint no one got time for that - urban female voice". for example, if one wanted to make a lava lamp from scratch (in the real world), you would have to learn how they work, how to assemble them, and gather the materials/ tools/ equipment in order to do. after all that, you actually have to do the labor of putting it together.
    but in darkfall, you are born with the skill and knowledge. all you need to do is gather the materials and put in the magic microwave that is preset to 10 seconds and voila you item is complete. it even goes the extra mile and auto takes out the complete item and puts in new material, truly a magic microwave.

    here are some solutions to this flawed system that requires no investment = no value created

    add an extensive/tedious/difficult quest line in order to unlock crafting. it has to be something no one wants to do and deters people from wanting to do it, so those who actually do it will be rewarded. an example of an extensive/tedious/difficult quest line is having to go to every single dungeon/hard mob spawn and talking to an npc. of course there would have to be some sort of lore to go along with it to tie it all together. and you would have to complete it is a specific order. for example nifl dungeon to cairn dungeon back to nifl dungeon to human lands dungeon to yassam dungeon and you get the point. the quest will literally have you bouncing back and fourth and back and fourth for hours and hours and hours traveling to the complete opposite sides of the map. you wouldn't be able to do it naked too because the dungeon mobs and hard spawns will kill you. this will also make pvp more active because there will be all these people trying to do the quests with gear running around and now have to fight for their lives cause they are not going to just die having just ran the entire map distance. that will make for some very intense fights and will promote pvp for sure (another issue that need to be addressed). all of this and it will only be for one crafting skill unlocked.

    replace the crafting timer bar that automatically goes up with time with a "crafting completion 0% bar" that only goes up as you complete answers to surveys. with each answer you add x% to the bar until 100%. bpg will be able to sell the collected data and reinvest to release more/better updates at a faster rate . no one will want to complete these surveys so this is an excellent way to deter people from crafting thus creating value in items.
     
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  3. Rath TNT

    Rath TNT Stormgraive
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    Sorry been moving house so MIA. Basically for each craft you have a choice, either craft for the gear and get the item and a very small skill up, or craft for levelling where it eats your mats but gives you a significantly larger skill up and no chance to fail. You may have to increase the overall grind for doing it organically to account for the bonuses and no fails, but power levellers will almost certainly go for the bonuses, and now you no longer have a flooded market. Alts or not, items will be valuable because of the opportunity cost of not using the same mats to grind.

    If anyone complains that crafting is not producing useful items, they always have the choice of grinding the old way.

    PS: The Q5 enchanting grind got me out in the world farming mats, gold, trading, searching village vendors, more than any other "content" AV designed. Please be careful to consider the cons of taking away 80% of the crafting grind...
     
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  4. Carrot Soup

    Carrot Soup Celestial
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    i'll unsub if you guys decide to impose crafting limitations, regardless of your poll.
     
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  5. Green Chili

    Green Chili Spellgazer
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    By limiting the # of crafting masteries (soft or hard cap) any one account can have, crafting value gets an easy automatic boost. Yes, some people will then get crafting alts, just like they did in DFO. Unavoidable, but one way to limit something is to make it more cost-inhibitive, thus another limit that helps to make each crafting mastery just a little more vauable.

    This is not a band-aid fix, this is an attempt to fix the underlying issue: too many of each item in the game, not enough demand, or too many people that can craft everything.

    This idea automatically limits the supply of any one item, whether it is enough, on its own, is a different story, but a step in the right direction.

    Now, some masteries are inherently more valuable than others such as weapon and armor smithing. Most people will probably choose at least 1 or both of these, simply because they are the most useful, however, not everyone will, so this becomes another limit to the amount of weapons/armor in the game, on top of the fact that people will have to spend more real money (alt ) and time to level the alt.

    Also, I think another way to give some of the lesser masteries a boost is to remove items like beef stew and all potions from from mob-drops, automatic boost to cooking and alchemy masteries. Basically, remove any item that can be crafted, and that profession gets automatic, however slight value.
     
  6. Thaliost

    Thaliost Goblin Scout

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    Hard limit the masteries to increase cooperation and trade (also need to create features to accommodate this "trade" besides the player villages).

    Max of 2 masteries would be enough.
     
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  7. WithoutShame

    WithoutShame Infernal
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    "There would be a value set on those crafted items now more so then before."

    Nope, I don't see that happening. It's so easy and fast to craft once you have the materials, one person with the correct mastery could easily supply all of the crafting needs of a 100 people in an hour. All these proposed changes do is piss off the "crafter" type player, while not benefiting the normal players at all.

    Why is this poll so biased though? Why not give people the option in the poll to say "none of the above, don't change anything"?
     
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  8. rabies

    rabies Deadeye
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    Option 2 and 3 are saying the same thing almost, so that's the one winning atm.
    And no, nobody can supply a 100 people (for 1 craft) in an hour.
    Also you'll need those people to be online whenever you need them.. unless ofcourse you want to support outer clan trades.. but that's a big hassle no? Always having to make deals, meeting with people in NPC cities (if they aint red that is), or risking both integrity and going to theirs or yours city..

    And to the supplying thing, you cant place orders like in DFuw, so you'd have to get everybody to get some crafting bags organised and then hopefully you'll find out which ones you failed and which you didnt or some wont be getting all their stuff.
     
  9. Aristos Giannes

    Aristos Giannes Cairn Giant
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    The purpose is to encourage trade outside of your own clan, or at least moving goods inside your clan between different crafters. Moving goods=healthier economy. The economy in DF1 was in a piss poor state most of it's life.
     
  10. TryHard

    TryHard Varangian Warthane
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    I havent voted and don't plan to, since none of the options please me.

    I cannot believe we are talking about limiting masteries, TLDR ROLES / CLASS SYSTEM / PUNISH JACK OF ALL TRADES / CRAFTERS CANT GET EVERY MASTERY WUT, even altering the experience gain is basically creating a system where you are punished just for learning a skill.

    Again, no need for me to vote, since I do not want masteries limited or changed in anyway, darkfall was the only game that allowed you to truly do everything and actually obtain every skill if you chose to, one of the main draws of the game for me. I never once thought it was unfair that someone had every crafting mastery past 75, it actually motivated me to get my skills higher.

    I never thought "So unfair that this person can learn multiple masteries, it really effects me" because it doesn't effect you at all, this is a change that UW players want, or players who just whish to punish the jack of all trades....

    EDIT: So if I want to learn every mastery for the melee weapons, or every crafting mastery, I will be punished with these changes..... I really just dont understand....... the poll even mentions "some penalty to PvP prowess." What is PvP prowess seriously I thought that was on UW shit.. sta

    EDIT2: I seriously will not play if the games masteries are limited or altered.

    EDIT3: With option 4 you cant even PvP and craft what the actual fuck did I just read.... Fire OP please.

    EDIT4:
    ^These are just from page 1...
     
    #70 TryHard, Apr 18, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2016
  11. Kozzion

    Kozzion Goblin Warlord
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    1 or 2 masteries is the way to go. 1 craft mastery and 1 refining mastery.
    As a dedicated crafter i didnt like that at some point everyone could craft their stuff and crafter playstyle was not honourable anymore.
    This game needs more then pvp playstyle keep that in mind! Same goes for trading.
    A reset as you say is reasonable if you want to change to learning a new craft.
    It will create much more diversity.

    Enchanting shouldnt be included tbh in this limit as everyone likes to enchant its crafted goods.

    I also like the gold thats need to be payed if its very very expensive so only real crafters are willing to do it.
     
    #71 Kozzion, Apr 18, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2016
  12. zpwR Edgewood

    zpwR Edgewood Goblin Scout
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    Maybe potentially limit the weapon and magic masteries, but limiting the crafting masteries would ruin the freedom we all love that
    DFUW took away from us.
    --- Post updated ---
    What about all the solo players out there? You are required to join a clan to be able to craft items now?
    Being able to live out of a Chaos city and be completely independent would be ruined and would force the player to either join
    a clan or travel to his racial city to purchase the items he needs.
     
  13. TryHard

    TryHard Varangian Warthane
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    Its not just "BEING ABLE TO CRAFT EVERYTHING" you have to aquire materials and rare ores aren't common.......
    ^What about when you are offline? Or when people need quick fillers for items? Don't you know about the trueforge skill and that real crafter items were sought after for high durability, so even if everyone could eventually make their own stuff they would choose a crafters sword since a non crafters trueforge would never compare to a crafters trueforge level......

    TLDR Only main crafters make high dura items
    ^This is sad and his argument is based on taking away freedoms from other players GG
    NO. Limiting any mastery is BAD design and is based off of taking away player choice and freedom.
     
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  14. GaiusSeptimus

    GaiusSeptimus Goblin Warlord
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    I truthfully think that crafting should not be bound my mats, but by time. EVE's crafting system is extraordinary and we should look at ways to implement and improve upon that style of crafting.
     
  15. Owyn Magnus

    Owyn Magnus Varangian Warthane

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    Bye

    Can I have ur bank?
     
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  16. Super Star

    Super Star Oak Lord
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    Its a team oriented game. Even if you do want to play solo in a chaos city, its not hard to meet up at someones city to buy w/e you need in bulk.
     
  17. Owyn Magnus

    Owyn Magnus Varangian Warthane

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    You do realize this is an MMO, right? You are thinking of a different genre.

    F*** any MMO that would base its design decisions to encourage solo play. Seriously. So fucking retarded.
     
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  18. Vic

    Vic Spellgazer
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    Poll questions:
    I voted
    yes
    yes
    yes
    no

    1) I believe this would be a good idea as it will encourage more player interaction and no one can be a jack of all trades. Yes people can make alts but people who want alts will always have them and it just means more money for BPG, definitely don't let us have more than 1 player slot per account as someone suggested as that can potentially make politics into chaos (and not in a good way) unless there will a be clear way to see the other chars people have on that account.

    2) Good idea again as it means you have to show more of a commitment to your choice of craft also provides a much needed gold sink. Nothing wrong with making it very high so maybe the whole clan will chip in to help their bowyer get mastery for example. I know people will say this kills solo gameplay but DFO is not designed as a singleplayer game. If you are playing solo you can still do it but it will take you longer as you are limiting yourself in the areas of gameplay realistically available to you. Also I think the gold cost of making items should increase at 75 or maybe start at 50 and make it more noticeable at 75.

    3) Again same reasons as #2 it means you have to commit to your desired craft. Also make the grind more noticeable at 75 in my opinion. Just to prevent people from getting all to 100 quickly and then deciding which route to go down after.

    4) I think this is just a recipe for disaster many people will go for alts as they will not want to hampered in pvp because they are a master crafter. There is no real reason to implement this it just makes things more complicated for people to take part in the ultimate goal of DFO - PVP.

    Personal opinion: Increasing the gold cost of crafting will make crafting more profitable - logic being: If it costs more to level your crafting level less people will be able to craft those goods. The market will not be flooded as much with items people mass crafted to level up. Higher initial cost to make goods = higher mark up for resale value.

    Also increasing chance of failure could also work out to be quite effective in the long run as this will get rid of more resources in the game including rares preventing mass build ups of them as well as further increase the value of items sold by crafters as many people would rather pay more for a guaranteed item rather than risk loosing their mats when putting in crafting requests.
     
  19. SupDude

    SupDude Gravelord
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    I miss the option i need , doesnt change a thing.

    Not even paying more the more masteries you get , no , just dont change anything.

    To me i don't see a point , hard limiting something is never good ; increasing the cost is not a solution either
     
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  20. Kozzion

    Kozzion Goblin Warlord
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    if you live in a chaos city, you agreed to the terms of the actions and consequences that playstyle holds.
    Yes you can trade, but it will be harder, or it can cost more since you can only trade at banks in the wild.
    But it is not because you are red that you can not socialize and interact or get to know other people to trade, craft, sell to .
     
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