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OFFICIAL POLL #1: Crafting Masteries

Discussion in 'Game Design Discussion' started by DestLocke, Apr 13, 2016.

?

What types of mechanics do you think would be best for the game in both the short and long term?

  1. Hard limit on number of active masteries (based on total number of masteries)

  2. Exponentially increase gold cost per mastery

  3. Exponentially increase grind per mastery

  4. Hard Limit along with some mechanic to allow additional masteries with some penalty to PvP prowess.

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
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  1. AlphaMage

    AlphaMage Goblin Shaman

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    Yes, now I know thats dumb but otherwise the mats will always be worth more than the junk items you have to make before you're making the stuff people want. Although Rath TNT has an interesting solution you can either craft for the items or for a bit extra gains this would help curb a flooding of items onto the market. I still think this was an issue of there only being a market for high end items and everything else being a sunk cost to get to that level of crafting, with a healthy population I believe you will have consumers of all levels and the issue dissolves.

    If something needs a change it's the tediousness of trading it was much easier for me to grind up my own crafting so that I never had to worry about acquiring what I needed. We need a middle map chaos city that still has tower protection to act as the central market of agon, everyone of any race and alignment can enter and the towers defend against aggression.
     
  2. Kozzion

    Kozzion Goblin Warlord
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    You said it correctly. CHOICE.
    since im gonna be a crafter, it would be nice for myself that I can craft anything I like.
    BUT... I can see history repeats itself as originally happened in DFO wich I played for years.
    It starts out nice since not everyone is gonna craft everything and they specialize a bit here and there but overall it starts oke.
    Then people get to start becoming rich and they are bored so they decide ... Im gonna buy for a few 100K mats and max armorsmithing this weekend, or alchemy etc... .
    The market gets flooded by cheap stuff since they want to recuperate some gold at least and all the dedicated crafters become basically obsolete since they can still sell their goods too but at -50-80% of the actual cost.
    Plus its pretty hard since you see trade channel spamming all day of peoples goods that want to be sold.
    If I can counter this by limiting my own crafting masteries then I wont hesitate for a sec. Since I know where this "freedom" leads to in the longer term and it didnt look good at all.
    --- Post updated ---
    This is simplistic and would make life easier for traders for sure. BUT... I can't remember how many exciting and adventorous events I have had by trading , running around all over Agon either. I wouldnt miss that by just "oke, see you in 15min in the middle city.
    So yea, im a bit torn in between.

    *going to nifflheim to sell 10s of thousands of reagents to Speed lovaah and his clan, while a handfull of the clan guys waited for me at the north of mahirim to escort me to nifflheim to their city was pretty heroic to be honest :) *
     
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  3. Tolbin

    Tolbin Goblin Scout
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    Also have not voted as I don't like the choices.

    It is very hard to make crafting profitable when the crafter has to make a zillion items to grind up the skill- the zillion items are worthless and end up flooding the market. A recycling option does help this and should be included. I was a major crafter in DFO and could never make any net profit at it.

    The other way to make crafted items valuable is to require them to contain rare materials- the problem with this is that the grind then becomes unendurable- like with Armoursmithing mastery- and the same problem will then occur with market flooding, which drives price down.

    It *might* work to make crafting grind up only through the expenditure of gold, thus making it unnecessary to produce a zillion items to get to the top tier. If you want to try to limit the number of masteries by escalating the gold cost to buy/grind them you could try that. A very careful examination of the effect on the economy would be required.
     
  4. SupDude

    SupDude Gravelord
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    I would vote if there was a 5. dont change anything.
     
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  5. TryHard

    TryHard Varangian Warthane
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    If anything, the changes I want will promote more trading between players and even if everyone can have every mastery there will always be players who don't craft and have to interact with crafters.

    If everyone can craft, it will encourage more trading due to scarcity of materials, however if mats are abundant then it wont work.

    I never heard anyone complain in DFO about crafting masteries being an issue because you could get them all, what the fuck are you talking about "solo play". I want to be able to craft for everyone and not be penalized because I make armor bows swords....
     
    #85 TryHard, Apr 18, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2016
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  6. DestLocke

    DestLocke Chosen of Khamset
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    5 is implement Funhulk Mastery. Still want to vote for 5? :D
     
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  7. Quin Tessence

    Quin Tessence Black Knight
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    Do these master Funhulks fly?
     
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  8. Beradule

    Beradule Goblin Warrior
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    It's sad to see the poll where it is, but it is somewhat hopeful that I am seeing more posts now like the one quoted above.

    This is a big fundamental change to the game. People will work around it. All you are doing is making it harder on the pure crafters. I cannot see how limiting someone from being able to craft what they need to play the game at a competitive level is a good thing.

    Also like others have said, it's fine if we have more than one character per account, but we will not. So any kind of limitation that isn't something that you can opt in an out of is a terrible change. It goes completely against the idea of darkfall with our one character to do it all, if we so choose.
    --- Post updated ---
    Applying this same logic, the game was broken because everyone in combat was a jack of all trades.

    I think we should limit combat mastery as well, so it creates more balance for everybody.

    Damn this is starting to sound like another game I played.....
     
  9. JasonDark

    JasonDark Skeleton Archer
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    But what was the reason behind? I think:
    - Because Players didn't want to spend that much money on crafted goods, when there was so much offers, that lead to dumping prices (Problem No. 1, Item inflation, too many crafts required which are done too fast)
    - Because Players didn't want to buy crap gear (or did anyone sold cloth armor??? Problem No. 2 you can loot good gear from PVP, and also good gear Mob Drop, well in the beginning, further better gear is available for good price due to Problem 1 as well)
    - Because Players want to have the Equip with most bang for their buck... (Problem 3, similar to 2 but from a different Point of view, as soon as the first Crafters advanced to the next tier level, unlocking better better damage/protection gear, everyone wanted that, nothing below - as long as it was priced affordable..
    - the circle closes, crafting wasn't profitable, unless, you were the first to hit 100 mastery, enchant whatever...

    So, limiting crafting to 1 or 2 Masteries (considering alts topic as explained before) would change which of these aspects?

    I've read some interesting ideas in this thread, I think the key will be to reduce the No. of crafted Items.. Possibilities:
    - Extend the duration of crafting process (and also the skill gain, maybe also some type of mini game/puzzle etc..)
    - increase the recipes ingredients to make it more complex (e.g. different type of metal, beside the rare metal)
    - don't get all recipes from the beginning, require to have them
    + Mob Drop
    + Quest Reward
    + NPC Purchaseable (Gold Sink)
    Further, reduce the impact of (Mob?) Drop Gear, e.g. don't let it be useable directly, but make it recycle-able to retrain raw materials depending on dura or analysis (which destroys but gives recipe, new skill ;) - As why would an mahiriam breast plate fit to a female dwarf?? so increase the types of armor, male, female, race....

    And now before all PVP cry, put some decent lvl / quality equip to some NPC Vendors, at a high price (to avoid dumping market prices)

    to further increase demand on lower lvl gear, this is now probably very sensible topic, one could think about requirements for armor, like, light and heavy armor skill, and required skill level to wear plate, full plate etc... as long as new players would be comming in then it would be benefitial to craft this type of gear as well, as they wont be able to wear better gear yet, until they skill up their armor skill... add more robes, add option to the crafting which impacts the results in dura, damage/protection, bonus sprint whatever, be creative, not just limiting...
     
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  10. GaiusSeptimus

    GaiusSeptimus Goblin Warlord
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    I think the most important thing about the crafting system as it is, is that the "grind" up needs to be valuable. Like good economies in other MMOs, there has to be value in leveling the skill, other than just getting the skill for the high-end tier gear. Two ways to do that:

    1) Take the grind away from making the gear, useless or not. Move it to a time based skill up (similar to EVE or Pathfinder Online).
    2) Make sure that each craft (low tier to high tier) brings value. Change the loot tables of mobs from dropping possibly useful weapons and move it more towards needing crafted gear, even for leveling.

    The current system means that you're wasting time (time the could be spent killing mobs or leveling other skills) or your wasting materials (or gold) that have been farmed creating just a shitty currency sink. Make the crafting and economy meaningful and the rest of the game will fall into place.
     
  11. MisterTea

    MisterTea Infernal
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    I voted 4, but now that I think about it some more I really dislike being limited like that.

    there has to be another way to make Pure crafters much better than PvPers that want to craft their own gear, Limiting their PVP ability isn't a valid option considering the nature of Darkfall and PvP can happen anywhere, Plus crafters still need to farm materials.

    I wonder if making it more convenient to buy items from crafters instead of crafting them your self would be better perhaps making crafting items more difficult but enjoyable, or adding trade hubs to Clan cities/ NPC/Chaos cities and villages that people can list their items on and for a fee make them listable over a certain area,
    for example;

    some items are listed in Blackwood village, by default these items are available to purchase from neighbouring holdings/cities/villages, ottenhal,brockmore,bloodscar,lainstone,rhyandal,banagar for a fee the range can be increased further. items should be able to be searched for from capitol cities/chaos cities and player cities at a Market.

    Clan cities that are connected create a daisychain that links markets together over different areas thus increasing a trader/crafters influence within the world and he wouldn't have to pay an extra fee for selling in a larger area

    this would add another level to conquest as it would enable craft/trade focused clans to try and control a large area so they can sell gear and items to more people and also make buying items more convenient as you wouldn't have to travel to every single village hoping a vendor has what you want in stock.

    obviously this would need to be played with but i think ideas like this are much better than just putting a limit on crafting because of a problem that most likely will not be fixed by it.
     
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  12. GaiusSeptimus

    GaiusSeptimus Goblin Warlord
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    I really like this, but for it be most effective having localized markets and banking would increase the value of this.
     
  13. AlphaMage

    AlphaMage Goblin Shaman

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    Heres an idea how about at r50 you now need an item of one lesser rank to make a finished product. So the recipe for a r50 great sword now requires a r40 great sword, a r60 needs a r50. You can adjust material cost to account for the increase in cost now and play with the variables, does the durability of the template item play into the finished product how about the roll. If you use a high roll r40 > high roll r50 > high roll r60 you could end up with a bad ass r70. Oh and I didn't even think about enchanting that could factor in. It's starting to get pretty complicated now but think of the possibilities if your willing to invest some serious money and time you could end up with some real op gear that should be worth a pretty penny to the right person.
     
  14. SupDude

    SupDude Gravelord
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    Nice joke , we still don't have the option "keep it as it is" , poll is biased. You don't ask the community about what to do ; you already know what you'll do and you just ask between several choices . Lot of people didnt vote , just because we cannot vote for the "don't touch a thing" .
     
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  15. DestLocke

    DestLocke Chosen of Khamset
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    When you say don't touch a thing do you mean don't add more masteries or anything? The poll isn't bias btw, "don't touch a thing" is not a mechanic, the poll was "out of these mechanics". If you didn't like any, simply don't vote. Not a big deal.
     
    #95 DestLocke, Apr 19, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2016
  16. SupDude

    SupDude Gravelord
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    I meant don't add gold costs the more you get , don't limit them to 2 or whatever , don't add or remove or change anything.

    Keep it as it was in darkfall , and we don't have any options for that.
     
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  17. Carrot Soup

    Carrot Soup Celestial
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    HA!! there wont be a bank because of the changes LOL!
    --- Post updated ---
    and then you wonder why people would want to play solo to begin with.... perhaps you should seek counseling.
     
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  18. Owyn Magnus

    Owyn Magnus Varangian Warthane

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    This was weak, seriously.

    3/10.....and at least one of those points was for quoting me twice, which is always a good thing to spread my messages around.
     
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  19. WithoutShame

    WithoutShame Infernal
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    "
    What types of mechanics do you think would be best for the game in both the short and long term?"

    The mechanic that I think would be best for the game isn't on the poll. For people who have invested in this game, it is a big deal. This is an official poll, literally stated in the title, it's pinned. I think it's completely reasonable for there to be an option of "none of the above" added to the poll so that people can have their voices heard.

    If there is no "none of the above" option in the poll, that leaves the door open for you guys to later on reference this poll when making a design decision. "See, 30 people voted for this option in a poll, and just a few people said they didn't like it. Obviously we had to go with what the majority wanted."

    Paranoid? Probably, but as a community dealing with Aventurine for so long I think you can understand why we might be a bit paranoid.
     
  20. DestLocke

    DestLocke Chosen of Khamset
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    Yes, paranoid, and I totally understand. :D Everyone is, and I don't blame you or anyone else one bit. Yes we stated we're going to do a hard cap already, and we still very well might, but we're also trying to explore every possibility that we and/or the community can come up with. There's already been some interesting alternative ideas in this thread, and that's the whole point of it. It's simply nothing more than that. Ideas are not decided by polls; ideas are generated by polls!
     
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