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OFFICIAL POLL #1: Crafting Masteries

Discussion in 'Game Design Discussion' started by DestLocke, Apr 13, 2016.

?

What types of mechanics do you think would be best for the game in both the short and long term?

  1. Hard limit on number of active masteries (based on total number of masteries)

  2. Exponentially increase gold cost per mastery

  3. Exponentially increase grind per mastery

  4. Hard Limit along with some mechanic to allow additional masteries with some penalty to PvP prowess.

Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. SupDude

    SupDude Gravelord
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    Then again , if there isnt any option where you can say "noone of the above" or "keep it as it was on dfo" then less and less people would write in this thread saying they dont want to change anything.
    You want everyones opinions , give us every choices possibles then.
     
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  2. Sloppy

    Sloppy Goblin Warlord
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    Remove all crafting from players, and have the NPC's be the crafters!

    Let guilds grind up their crafting NPC's, and murder the NPC crafters of their enemies.
     
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  3. Rochus

    Rochus Goblin Warlord
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    i like that tbh, although it´s dumb
     
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  4. Nupraptor

    Nupraptor New Member
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    Number 5 none of the above
     
  5. Sentius Nox

    Sentius Nox Skeleton Archer
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    I voted for number one. I am currently happy with the way the crafting works. However if we are looking to create a game where having a crafting mastery real means something, and you can sell your skills; I think that being able to craft everything, but only being a master in say 3-5 things would make it much easier for crafters to actually sell their stuff, and be recognized as good crafters. Just be careful to not turn this game in to a "class" type thing. The best part about Darkfall is you can do anything and be anyone.
     
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  6. MisterTea

    MisterTea Infernal
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    How about another suggestion. this just came to me so could be a bit rough,
    All current items are crafted as they are now BUT roll only with the lowest rolls, no it doesn't make the items uselsss nobody had a problem with using mob dropped justice bringers etc and putting a Q3 keen on them. then add a new tier of crafting skill above mastery, for example;

    Grand Master Armoursmith
    Grand Master Weaponsmith
    etc
    these skills are the ones which are limited to 2 per character Items crafted when in possession of these skills allow crafts to reach the Highest rolls but are still random in the craft although they cannot hit the lowest roll number so they always be atleast slightly better than non GM crafted gear.

    this gives us a compromise Everyone can still craft ALL their gear if they so choose, But pure crafters will be able to specialise and create the very best gear.
    Perhaps even have additional Grand master crafts unlocked by Trading an elemental magic school for it, these could be part of a quest chain and the GM will trade you the knowledge after you give up your magical ability. you can swap it back whenever you want but you'll lose all your skill gained in the GM school
    thoughts?
     
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    #106 MisterTea, Apr 19, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2016
    BraP eX and PENETRATOR like this.
  7. Sentius Nox

    Sentius Nox Skeleton Archer
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    fucking love this idea SOOOOOOOOOOOOO much. you have my vote. Having some sort of quest to obtain grand master crafting would be kewl too.
     
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  8. DestLocke

    DestLocke Chosen of Khamset
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    Funny, I had jotted something down using the "high rolls" mechanic yesterday as well, and we talked about it quite a bit last night. To simplify, for instance, when you get to the mastery level, the NPC will offer both regular and spec versions for each mastery. To add additional value to specs, we were thinking of also increasing gold costs on all non-spec masteries across the board. The challenge would be replicating the "high roll" mechanic for all masteries. Easy for things like weaponsmithing, armorsmithing and tailoring, but a little more complicated for things like enchanting, and potentially problematic for things like food and potions (stacking issues if they actually differ in some way). Other ones, like shipbuilding, would need a new mechanic like more health. Others still, like artillery, would need to be looked at on an item-by-item basis. With the cheap gold cost, in some cases for certain items, that alone would probably have to be enough. Does anyone hate this idea?
     
  9. MisterTea

    MisterTea Infernal
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    I think for ships cannons and maybe food everyone should be allowed these without restrictions, ship and cannon crafting is extremely expensive and only a few ever get it high and nobody realistically is going to take a cooking mastery if it is part of the limited masteries, unless there was something like added resists to high level mastery crafted food
     
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  10. Super Star

    Super Star Oak Lord
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    Armorsmithing/Weaponsmithing - Mastery is able to roll the higher end damage/protections and normal crafting rolls the lower end. For example if the roll is .80-.85, the normal crafter gets a roll range of .80-.82 while the master rolls from .83-.85

    Alchemy/Herbalism - Same damage roll bonus on staves as above example. For herbalism you could do 1 of quite a few things. You could create a new passive for alchs only that give 2 extra ticks on a potion they drink. You could give them a passive like reagent conservation that has a small % chance to save on a material they use(not the herbs though as they are pretty much worthless). Or you can take the mechanic from wow and give a small % chance to create an extra potion of the same kind, per potion created. Or put it on a range. If i make a health potion, i have a 5% chance that ill make another(at no cost), or a 5% chance that i could make an additional 1-3 or w/e.

    Cooking - You could also give the survivalist passive that is on humans to them as well(so 50% for cooking mastery, 50% from being human, stacks). You could also give a small increase when eating food. For example i think fried lobster gives 25 stam and 25 health on consumption(w/e that means). So when a cooking master eats food he could get 35 health and 35 stam from the same piece of food. Maybe a master chef never burns his food and has 100% crafting success chance. Maybe you could give master chefs a flat passive on their own that will give them a chance to find cooking mats from any monster in the world. For example, if i kill a swamp hag as a master chef, there is also the chance that it can also drop something from a cooking mat loot table(carrots, potatoes, meat, etc). This would have to be scaled based on monster difficulty. You dont want someone farming goblins for 20 minutes and come out with 1000 potatoes.

    Shipbuilding - This one is a little more difficult as im trying to suggest ideas that add benefit to the person who chooses a certain mastery, but at the same time keeping it balanced. You dont want everyone rolling weaponsmithing because it adds an extra +20 damage to a sword. For shipbuilding i suggest something more along the cosmetic side. Maybe when you make a ship as a master ship builder, the first time you name it also engraves that name on the side/hull or both on the ship. Or it allows you to customize the colours of you flag, or add a symbol. Maybe if i capture a ship, the only person that can alter the flag colours and name is a master shipcrafter. Or maybe the player wants to keep a ship with another clans sails that they captured simply for ego. Or you can ride out on the ship with the enemies colours to confuse their allies.

    Bowyer - Same thing as weaponsmithing in regards to damage rolls.

    Enchanting - I would suggest the same thing as reagent conservation. Maybe a passive that gives a chance to save the catalyst or a Q mat. Another idea could be when they do an enchant, it has a very small chance to roll a higher quality than intended. For example i want to put q3 feather on helmet and it rolled to a q4 feather.

    Tailoring - Same as armorsmithing in terms of protection rolls. Maybe as well something small but only tailor masters can craft different colour bags. Everyone else has to craft the brown ones.

    Blood/Shadecrafting - Im not really sure on this one. If you gave them a passive that when they were wearing say a shadecrafted or bloodcrafted chest, they dont inherit the normal penalty from wearing it. Or maybe they inherit the penalty like everyone else but say they equip a bloodcrafted chest, they would receive the opposite in a very slight passive regen bonus. So Bloodcrafted would give a 0.1 mana regen/second and shadecrafted would give a 0.1 health regen/second or w/e the numbers may be. Another idea could be that they can choose to change the colour of the elipse around the player when wearing their blood/shade crafted armor. So the Ring instead of red or blue could be changed to black.

    Construction - Construction masters strong boxes could have more health than one crafted by a non-master. Maybe construction master have a passive where they have a small chance to not consume a repair shard when repairing. Maybe all black powder costs on seige equipment needs to be increased by 1. That way when a construction master crafts a Master Mortar or Master Dragon cannon it costs 1 less black powder per shot.

    Jewelcrafting - Im not really sure what could be done in terms of jewelcraft aside from a dura bonus. Maybe mastercrafted arcance jewelry always rolls an additional all res roll that does not hold the spot of an enchant. So for example the roll could be 0.1-0.4 all res. So if im wearing 3x top rolls of mastercrafted jewelry i would have an additional 1.2 all res(again w/e numbers seem appropriate. Maybe they always need to roll a flat 0.2 all res with a combined sum of .6 all res with all 3 pieces).
     
    #110 Super Star, Apr 20, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2016
  11. MisterTea

    MisterTea Infernal
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    On the topic of ship building, something i really liked about Archeage ships was that we could customise our Sails, as well as other ship parts.

    Maybe ship masters can customise ships, for example Higher speed but lower Health/more damage taken from cannons, Customiseable insignias on the side of the ship and sails. this could get interesting.
     
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  12. DestLocke

    DestLocke Chosen of Khamset
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    Thanks for the feedback. Few things - Herbalism is no more, and Construction / Jewelcrafting currently won't have masteries.

    We would want to focus on the benefit of spec being on the items produced, not on the person crafting in as many cases as possible however.
     
  13. Super Star

    Super Star Oak Lord
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    I understand what you are saying but at the same time in all profession circumstances it wont work. The reason i suggest 2 more ticks on potions drank by the master or a chance at crafting an additional potion at no cost is because this gives a benefit to the master by rewarding him financially. If you say ok, an alchemy master can now make Master potions that now heal 150 instead of 100 from Major health pots before(or w/e the number may be). All you are doing is making major health potions obsolete. Just like majors currently make minor and moderate potions obsolete.

    The whole point of picking of professions in general is you want to craft for people, but at the same time of course you want to increase your wealth. So if I pick up a profession as a Master profession, the only reason i would ever pick it up is because im going to make more money than i was as just a normal alchemist. Saving mats on craft does this. Chance at an extra potion does this. Allowing me to make master crafted potions will make any alchemist who isnt a master obsolete. Nobody will want to pvp with pots that give 100 health when they could have pots that give 150. People like to min max.
     
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  14. DestLocke

    DestLocke Chosen of Khamset
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    We want the financial benefit to be in the product produced and create a market for the better products, not just give an inate advantage to the holder of the spec just for having it. If we added the same sort of high roll mechanic to potions, we could accomplish it - i.e. non spec large pots heal 4-5 ticks, spec large pots heal 6-7. Or something like that - its no different than the rationale with weapons low/high rolls at that point. Just spit balling here.
     
  15. Super Star

    Super Star Oak Lord
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    I think you are missing the point as to why someone in the first place will choose to level a profession, and then on top of it a mastery. There are only 2 reasons, self sufficiency, and monetary gain. If i am going to spend time and a lot of money grinding up a profession, how much of x will i have to make and sell before i get back to break even, then how much to start to turn a profit? Thats the only thing that matters. If i can never get my money back from a profession then there is never a reason to pick it up. I would be able farm mats and have someone else who already maxed it out make it. If you are in a guild or have a friend that did it, then guess what, you are getting the same gear they are at cost because they will make it for you for free.

    What you have to do is give that person who maxes a mastery some way to get their money back and turn a profit for their time. If its a proc potion passive, every time it procs, that master just made x amount of gold for free if they choose to sell that spare potion. Master chef, every time you dont burn a piece of food and fail, you are gaining more food that you otherwise wouldnt have been able to make before. Each extra piece of food you save on means more profit you are making when selling. Master ship builder, you will be able to put an additional price out to others who want a customized sail or name on the hull or side of the ship. If you go down your route, and just add more health to boats, then what? You will make most old ships obsolete(same ship non master). Who will want to go out on a ship battle, and have a boat with less health. You are already at a disadvantage as soon as you spawn the ship.

    If all you do is add health to master pots, why would anyone level alchemy(aside from staves, just think pots). You are allowing someone to choose to have w/e profession they want(in this case alchemy), but at the same time making it pointless. Am i going to grind a profession if i like crafting just for the sake of having it? I wouldnt, how many people would? Ide bet not many because financially, its illogical.

    A small passive gives every master crafter at least a guaranteed small bonus to offset the initial cost to level but at the same time, not creating an imbalance in pvp. On top of whatever else you would to add, where it be extra procs, or material conservation, etc.
     
  16. DestLocke

    DestLocke Chosen of Khamset
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    I see what your saying, but you're also missing the point which is to add value to the crafted items themselves hence stimulate the economy. Although passive gives makes the crafter gold indirectly, it does not accomplish the first two.
     
  17. SupDude

    SupDude Gravelord
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    You really think about giving passives to a master crafter ?
     
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  18. Sentius Nox

    Sentius Nox Skeleton Archer
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    Dest, Are you guys looking to make crafters more meaningful and possibly profitable; or are you trying to make it so we have to specialize and cant make everything like we could before? I think this would help use all give better insight on this matter.
     
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  19. Scrubby Bear

    Scrubby Bear Eodrin
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    One of the fundamental problems in the game is that it can't attract the 'dedicated crafters'. One of the biggest reasons for this is the daunting grind before you can start crafting anything that you can actually sell. No one will buy a newbie crafters wares to fuel their grind because they are worthless r0-r40s. There needs to be a way for a crafter to log in, learn the basics and immediately set up shop and actually progress as a crafter.

    So you either need to greatly reduce the crafting grind so that newbies can get into selling useful shit at a reasonable pace of say a week, or fundamentally change gear to copy early UO. That would be to remove the rank system on gear. Make all (or just most) gear have the same net functionality just divided up differently between different stats. So like a r10 great sword could be faster swinging but not do as much damage, but have the same DPS as a R40 sword. Then while it wouldn't be as useful for PvP, it would still be a very useful PvE/training weapon that the newbie could easily sell. I would prefer the UO styled system just because it would create more gear diversity in the field, but given the difficulty and development time to do it I understand if it isn't remotely possible.

    Another issue is that it needed to be easier to gather the basic materials for a 'pvp viable' gear bag. Regular ore, timber, that kind of stuff needed to gather at a pace that wasn't done best by being semi-afk. Anytime the best way to do something in a game is to play it as little as possible, it should be clear there is a problem. It should be fast enough and rewarding enough that people aren't just naked afk gathering everywhere.

    If those issues are addressed I would be fine with limiting crafting.
     
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  20. Super Star

    Super Star Oak Lord
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    But what im suggesting does add value to the crafted items themselves. How would customizable sails/hull name NOT add value to a master crafter? If im a clan, am i going to choose a normal boat, or have a master ship crafter customize it to sport my clans colours/tags? Obviously i would pay extra to have that customization fluff. If you choose alchemy mastery, you have the damage roll onto staves already therefore adding value to that profession as a mastery like you've stated. Why would you need to add extra on top of potions as well for the same mastery in terms of more health?

    In regards to an artillery master, if you increase the blackpowder cost on everything by 1, and keep master crafted cannons the same blackpowder cost that they are now you are adding value to that crafters cannons. You would pay a premium for that cannon to save money using it over the long run as long as you maintain ownership of it of course. Everything i suggested adds additional value to items and to the master crafter who chooses that profession, but at the same time keeps everything balanced.

    I would WANT to buy a ship from a master crafter to customize. I would WANT to buy cannons from an artillery master to save money on shots. I would WANT bulk enchants done by a master enchanter if i knew his enchants had a chance of rolling a higher quality. If i farmed a bunch of food and my success rate on cooking it was 50% or 70% because i didnt choose that profession as a mastery, i would WANT a master chef to craft it for me because he has 100% success chance. Do you see what i mean?

    You cant just add MORE health to pots. MORE health to ships, MORE this to that. That doesnt fix anything or add anything extra. It makes old non master shit obsolete and adds more balancing problems for you guys.
     
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