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Player Progression daily report thread during Free Trial

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by mrW, Oct 15, 2016.

  1. mrW

    mrW Black Knight
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    Hi,

    This is my daily report thread to report on my progress in RoA. I have started on 14th of October and I plan to play actively during the Free Trial. I thought it's a good idea to document my progress so I can evaluate player progression in RoA. After I started doing that, I thought it's something that the community might be interested in too, so I will make this thread and update it with posts as I progress daily.

    It would be helpful if you guys could also provide feedback or any tips on what I do wrong or where I could improve.

    I wanted to make a post in Feedback forums, but it does not allow me to do so so I will make a thread here.

    Intro
    • I am experienced DF player, played since day 2 of DF release till the end (with breaks).
    • I don't mind the Grind / PvE system in DF and I think it hits the sweet spot between the effort needed and the rewards from it. I've played lots of Diablo 2 or CS 1.3 when I was a kid so I think a lot of influence comes from there ;)
    • I sometimes focus on efficiency a lot (like grinding up some school fast or killing 1000 iklits in a few days), while other times I just waste my time in DF running around and sort of "exploring" or I end up doing some retarded questline or killing some odd useless mob to check if maybe there's some nice random drop in there. This is mostly to put and expose myself to player encounters.
    • When playing solo, most of the time I prefer PvP to find me than I actively look for it myself.
    • I've played DnD for 1,5-2 months actively and managed to get pretty maxed out character (max stats + heavy necro/water/fireball hybrid. There are still things I could grind up there, but due to front-load etc., I don't feel like the added benefits are worth spending time to grind for in beta.
    • I've had a look in RoA's progress from time to time, but I did not generally follow the updates too much. This will be the first time I actually login in RoA.
    Character

    Race: Human
    Stats: 10str 10vit 10dex 10qck 10int 10wis
    Starter Area: Sandbrook

    - Day 1 -

    Goals

    • Get updated with the progress that BPG so far did to RoA and the changes.
    • Get initial feel for the stat/skill/spell leveling so I can compare it and plan my trial week accordingly.
    • Kill some goblins and get Lesser Magic to 50 so I can get Greater Magic for day 2.

    Summary

    Playtime: 3-4hours (45mins PvE / 2 hours gathering / 1hour jerking around) + meditating quickness (~11h)
    Progress:

    • Stats: 25str 26vit 26dex 30quick 25int 25wis
    • Skills:
      • 42 Lesser Magic (10 durable, 10 mana eff). Seems to be progressing VERY fast. I killed like ~40 goblins which took me 30mins. No scrolls were used yet
      • 46 Mining; 42 Logging; 38 Herb Gathering
      • 1 Human Ingenuity
    • Spells:
      • 26 Mana Missle; 13 Mana2Stamina; 6 Heal Self; 5 Health2Mana; 4 Stamina2Healt.
    Playsession Description
    https://forums.darkfallriseofagon.c...ort-thread-during-free-trial.5150/#post-86255

    - Day 2 -

    Goals

    This is a saturday and I plan to play for longer period, thus my goals are way bigger:

    • Get Greater Magic to 50.
    • Get Witchcraft to 30 for Witches Brew.
    • Get Archery to 50.
    • Get Melee to 25.
    • Have at least 5k gold at the end of the playing session for next day or get a few sets of crafted scale/plate and higher rank weapons so I am more prepared for melee leveling.
    • Get Heal Other and Sacrifice (if possible, not sure about requirements due to having no access to mage)
    - part 1 -
    First part of the day had good experiences but wasn't very effective. I've split it as I plan to do some more focused grinding in the second part and it was getting too long already :)

    Summary

    Playtime: ~3,5hours (mostly PvE and running around as I died a few times) (meditating quickness)
    Progress:
    • Stats: 26str 27vit 27dex 34quick 26.5int 26wis

    • Skills (no scrolls yet):
      • 62 Lesser Magic (22 durable, 22 mana eff; 12 quicken).
      • 17 Greater Magic..
      • 29 Archery (no disabling)
      • 28 Greatsword (1x disabling; 1x power; 1x knockback)
      • 29 skinning
      • 10 Human Ingenuity
      • 14 Rest

    • Spells (no scrolls used yet):
      • 20 Heal self
      • 9 Health2Mana
      • 40 Mana Missile
      • 18 Mana2Stamina
      • 11 Stamin2Health
      • 15 Rend
    My bank

    Playsession Description
    Playsession Description Post

    - part 2 -

    Summary
    Playtime: 3 hours (PvE around Copperdale)
    Progress:
    • Stats:
    • Skills:
    • Spells:
      Bank:


    Playsession Description



    - Day 3 -

    Goals


    • Find a good source of income
    • Get Witches Brew to 30
    • Get Greatswords to 50 and Whirlwind
    • Get 50 Grater Magic and Buy Fire if I can afford it.
    • Get Spell Chanting / Sacrifice
    • Start group farming
    Summary
    Playtime: 6,5 (5 hours PvE; 45mins crafting; 45mins dungeon)
    Progress:
    • Stats:
    • Skills and Spells:
    • Bank:
    Playsession Description

    Tieser:
    - Still going solo!
    - Found semi decent source of income!
    - Explored a dungeon!
    - Reached 49.5 Greatswords, 50 GM; 25 WC; 25 SC
    - Had some player interactions and met some players during my journey!
    - Fought harder mobs and revisited previous mobs to check how strong I became!

    https://forums.darkfallriseofagon.c...ort-thread-during-free-trial.5150/#post-86764

    - Days 4-5 -
    As this is start of very busy week for me I will barely have much time to play until Wednesday night. For this reason most of my progress will come from meditation, but I would like to have a small plan in case I have a few hours that I can spend gathering as I will be on my laptop.

    Goals


    • Prepare strict and efficient plan for days 7-10 to get "semi-viable" in small group encounters
    • Find out arrow crafting requirements and possibly craft some arrows
    • Fishing for fish (to 50)
    • Cooking (cook all the fish for food)
    • Herb Gathering for Steedgrass and Papyrus (possibly to 75)
    • Mining for Ore / Rare Ingots (to 50-60)
    • Logging (to 50-60)
    Summary
    Playtime: 2-3hours gathering, 1 hour crafting, 2 hours PvE
    Progress:
    • Stats and Bank:
    • Skills and Spells:
    Playsession Description

    https://forums.darkfallriseofagon.c...read-during-free-trial.5150/page-2#post-87593

    - Day 6 -

    Goals


    • Gold, Gold, Gold! (need at least 5k for meditation points)
    • Keep spamming Rend for 75 GM!
    • Keep spamming Needles for 50 WC!
    • Keep spamming Mana Blast for 50 SC!
    • Purchase all the passive skills that I can
    Summary
    Playtime: 2-3hours
    Progress:
    • Stats:
    • Skills:
    Playsession Description

    https://forums.darkfallriseofagon.c...read-during-free-trial.5150/page-2#post-87832

    - Day 7 -

    Goals


      • Gold, Gold, Gold! (need at least 5k for meditation points)
      • Keep spamming Rend for 75 GM!
      • Keep spamming Needles for 50 WC!
      • Keep spamming Mana Blast for 50 SC!
      • Purchase all the passive skills that I can
    Summary
    Playtime: 5hours
    Progress:
    • Stats:
    • Skills:
    • Spells:
    Playsession Description

    https://forums.darkfallriseofagon.c...read-during-free-trial.5150/page-2#post-88170

    - Day 8 -

    Goals

    • Gold, Gold, Gold! (5k med + 15k gold (10k upgrades and scrolls + 5k for gear, spells and skills)
    • 75 GM (Rend + Venom spam)
    • 50 WC (Needless + Disease + Exhaust spam)
    • 50 SC (Mana Blast)
    • 25 Greatsword Mastery
    • 25 Sharpshooter / Spirited Archer
    Summary
    Playtime: 3-4 hours
    Progress:
    • Stats:
    • Skills:
      • TBA
    • Spells:
      • TBA
    Playsession Description

    https://forums.darkfallriseofagon.c...read-during-free-trial.5150/page-2#post-88867

    - Days 9-10 -

    Goals


      • Gold, Gold, Gold! (5k med + 15k gold (10k upgrades and scrolls + 5k for gear, spells and skills)
      • 75 GM (Rend + Venom spam)
      • 75 WC (Needless + Disease + Exhaust spam)
      • 50 SC (Mana Blast)
      • 25 Greatsword Mastery
      • 25 Sharpshooter / Spirited Archer
    Summary
    Playtime: 6-7hours PvE + 2-3hours semi-afk trading/chatting/jerking around
    Progress:
    Playsession Description

    https://forums.darkfallriseofagon.c...read-during-free-trial.5150/page-3#post-89573

    - Days 11-12 -

    Goals


      • 10k Gold
      • 75 WC
      • 50 SC
      • 25 Greatsword Mastery
    Summary
    Playtime: 2,5 hour PvE + 2 hours riding / trading.
    Progress:
    Playsession Description

    ->Playsession description of Day 11<-
    ->Playsession description of Day 12<-


    - Days 13-15 -

    Goals

      • 75 WC
      • 50 SC
      • 40 Greatsword Mastery
      • 25+ Gathering Masteries
      • Stock up on Iron \ Papyrus \ Timber \ Snakeweed \ Fish
      • Stock up on herbs
    Summary
    Playtime: 4 hours PvE + 30mins trading + 2hours gathering
    Progress:
    Playsession Description

    https://forums.darkfallriseofagon.c...read-during-free-trial.5150/page-3#post-91198

    - Days 16-18 -

    Goals

      • 75 WC
      • 60 SC
      • 50 Greatsword Mastery
      • 25+ Gathering Masteries
      • Stock up on Iron \ Timber \
      • Stock up on r60 weapons
    Summary
    Playtime: 8 hours PvE + 3 hours raiding mines + 2 hours trading / jerking around
    Progress:
    Playsession Description

    https://forums.darkfallriseofagon.c...read-during-free-trial.5150/page-3#post-91416
     
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    #1 mrW, Oct 15, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2016
    ilLucien, Trogdor, negocromn and 14 others like this.
  2. Neilk

    Neilk Web Development & System Admin
    Staff Member Team Lead

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    This is great feedback, really appreciate it.
     
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  3. mrW

    mrW Black Knight
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    Actually I forgot to mention something in day 1. While I was in Sanguine I tried to make my Karma treat me well and ask a guy for some starting shit that he might not need anymore. Him being a newer player himself (he was in a clan already as some Recruit), he said he's having problems too and couldn't even spare few hundred gold neither gear as he said he spends a lot for meditation points and scrolls. Still, I still had some karma and he gave me some gems that I sold for 300-400g, so I had that extra few hundred. Otherwise I think I also would have had problems buying Human Ingenuity or Eldrich Sphere.

    I plan to also start playing with friends a bit, but will stick to lower and more solo experience during the first days not to be influenced by incomes or help from third parties too much. I will however accept (and already got one) gifts such as mounts or even basic gear so I do not play too inefficiently :)

    - Day 1 -
    So while the game was downloading and patching I opened up Announcement section on forums and literally opened like 30 new tabs with all the patch notes threads from oldest to newest. I've read through most, noting important changes and the game was ready to hop in.

    I logged in to be greeted by 130-150ping (considering I'm on WiFi it is ok and I plan to get the cable sometime in the coming weeks). First thing I did was enable meditation for Quickness.
    I skimmed the tutorial, checked new chat (called someone a pleb in New Players chat like a true hero should), loved the UI changes and realized I should hop into setting up my binds and game settings first.

    Sadly at this point is was when my WiFi connection started going apeshit and experiencing 3-5k ping spikes I knew I wouldn't be able to PvE much. So I proceeded to hit all the iron nodes around, while setting up my binds, playing around with the new hotbar system and asking some questions in player chat. It was annoying as gathering was very slow due to my ping, as it would extend every swing by 3-5seconds, so this really skewed the gathering time, which would otherwise be done faster :)

    After 1,5 hour of jerking around like this, my binds were setup so I could cycle spells, swap weapons etc. same way I could in DF/DnD, just without a macro. I started in Sandbrook and was mostly near Sanguine overencumebered with iron and timber, so I went in to Sanguine to bank. I also picked up all the title quests besides Wisdom so if I ever kill any of these mobs the kills would count for them. I then recall back to Sandbrook and started on the quests from councilor.

    I went and killed 15 goblins with MM gave me 1->32 LM and 1->23 MM. I thought this was really fast so far and very effortless as it took less than 15 minutes. I additionally had like 7 essences, so that would put my leveling even further. I remember in DnD I spent at least one hour extra shooting MM on rats in the NPC city to get LM to 50. I feel like here I will have it only from goblins. I went back to give in quests and then bought durable spells (10 LM) and Mana Efficiency (30 LM), Eldrich Sphere (30 LM) and Lay on Hands.

    Then I proceeded to do hand in the resources the gathering quests and got my first 3 potion which leveled all my stats by +6. Some other minor questing aside and I had quests to shoot goblins with MM / Arrows again and proceeded back to Goblin spawn.

    I then killed 20-25 more goblins, ninja looted some more essences from the other guy who was also there and as my quests were done in 15-20minutes I decided to go back so I can get the rest of the Nectar potions.

    I banked all my stuff and have 16 LM Essences in my bank and like 600-700 gold. After handing in the quests, receiving more Nectar Potions and drinking them, I had all of my stats at 25-26. I also got a quest to check the Sarnakhs, I quickly killed a Minor Sarnakh with arrows but once I saw the normal Sarnakh agroing me I tried to leg it.
    I came back and at the end of session proceeded to buy Human Ingenuitiy, Alchemy (I misbought it thinking I need that to craft scrolls) and finally Scribing. This sadly left me with only 70 gold left and being a bit tired I felt like I should log off for the night and find gold next day to craft the scrolls.

    Feedback

    What is really great so far:
    - No need to for any macros. Not even for looting or other minor things so far. My old DF/new DnD macro can go to hell. Although I particularly do NOT like the fact that the spells skip if they are on cooldown or if you do not have regs, the overall changes are great.
    - The hotbar solution is way superior to anything DnD has done. Even their weapons bar is compared to what you can do with the new functionality in RoA. I can now even setup my weapons so if my main 2h weapon breaks, the same key would automatically equip a shearsword instead.
    - The QoL changes are very spot on in general. Looting and skinning is very smooth, requires like 2-3 less buttons to click.
    - The gathering is now a lot more active playstyle. No more rewarding semi-afks. The node changes are also great, while at the start I couild find some nodes, while the evening was progressing and more NA players logged in, pretty much every node around Sanguine / Sandbrook and HoE was empty. I couldn't even find any rocks at the end. This is great as it no longer rewards semi-afk playstyle so much but can still be done in quite relaxing fashion.
    - The gathering skill leveling speed allowed me to asses the player progression speed. Going through 1 gathering tool (500 hits) put me to 38 skill, I think this is very reasonable and so far seems to be faster than RoA.

    What could be improved:
    - The quests or their rewards. There are quests who just ask you to go from one NPC city to Another. They give 5g as reward. I mean this is really a slap in the face and rather not give any gold or make it 100g at least or add some meditation points instead. Gold for a new player is scarce and I would think for real new players, who didn't play before, it will be a bit harder. Especially when there is additional gold sink of scribing.
    - Add indication on graves if player has been skinned or looted
    - I don't like the fact that hotbar cycles skip the spells if you are out of regs. I feel like this can really screw me over more and is also not very intuitive when setting up new rotations, as I first thought maybe something was not working as spells would not cycle as I had no regs. It also will screw up all of my muscle memory if I run out of regs. It would be nice if there was a checkbox somewhere to control this behaviour.
    - I am not sure if player looting works same way as mob looting, but if so I would suggest adding a short time to opening players graves to make looting in combat a bit more time consuming and risky
     
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    #3 mrW, Oct 15, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2016
  4. Wes Furtive

    Wes Furtive Obsidian Golem
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    Definitely don't have enough gold to buy everything as quickly as it becomes available to you right when you start. Very excited to continue reading your day-to-day progress :) I plan on doing something similar around January as we get closer to launch and using it as a "guide" on progression.
     
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  5. Andrew

    Andrew Obsidian Golem
    Staff Member BPG Representative

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    Great read, appreciate your journal of feedback :)
     
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  6. aparks

    aparks Obsidian Golem
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    Really though so late into beta we should be getting x4-x8 gains soon. To get people back and keep people playing before launch.

    What are your thoughts bpg.
     
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  7. DestLocke

    DestLocke Chosen of Khamset
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    Not saying we won't do this at some point, but generally speaking doing something like this only has a short term effect and doesn't really benefit us as far as getting feedback from new players (such as this thread for instance); It actually undermines the process. It's also not "so late" in beta. :D Cheers.
    --- Post updated ---

    To OP:
    Great stuff man, thanks a lot for taking the time to do this. This is the kind of feedback that will really help us, so please keep it up!
     
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  8. Towel

    Towel Akathar
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    Great read and a lot faster than what it was when I started lol.

    Also, I agree with the gold. With the additional arrows costing gold to craft and spell scrolls. They realllly need to rethink newbie gold income.

    Also MrW, I am alfar but have city of hammerdale. If you need loot bags I can pride some. Studded/bone, R40's or lower if you want.
     
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  9. propain

    propain Black Knight
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    Could have bi weekly or weekly events that increase gains. Get people at least playing on the weekends and stuff. Put in some GM events and whatnot.
     
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  10. mrW

    mrW Black Knight
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    - Day 2 - part 1 -
    First part of the day had good experiences but wasn't very effective. I've split it as I plan to do some more focused grinding in the second part and it was getting too long already :)

    Summary

    Playtime: ~3,5hours (mostly PvE and running around as I died a few times) (meditating quickness)
    Progress:
    • Stats: 26str 27vit 27dex 34quick 26.5int 26wis
    • Skills (no scrolls yet):
      • 62 Lesser Magic (22 durable, 22 mana eff; 12 quicken).
      • 17 Greater Magic..
      • 29 Archery (no disabling)
      • 28 Greatsword (1x disabling; 1x power; 1x knockback)
      • 29 skinning
      • 10 Human Ingenuity
      • 14 Rest
    • Spells (no scrolls used yet):
      • 20 Heal self
      • 9 Health2Mana
      • 40 Mana Missile
      • 18 Mana2Stamina
      • 11 Stamin2Health
      • 15 Rend
    My bank

    Playsession description

    I went quickly to check Goblins to maybe shoot some Mana Missiles but it was too crowded. I headed back, geared up in the studded / padded from the quest rewards and remembered I had quests to kill Shamans. I know I will needing gold for scrolls and GM and soon new spells. I would also like to buy double-jump and some other upgrade so getting gold felt like an important thing. I mostly decided to follow quests so to check the spawns around as I didn't ever play a Human neither farmed in the area to know the spots.

    Shamans were good and dropped some regs, r0 staffs and LM essences which will be useful later. I also got my 2nd selentine key. The quests was soon done and I also got 50 LM. This took me like 25minutes (running there + killing them). Mostly used Mana Missle
    to push LM to 50, but also started doing melee and got Greatswords to 10 and Archery to 10.
    I had arrows, 3-4 bows, 3-4 r0 staffs, 9 LM essences and a Greater Essence, but only 73 gold. As I had arrows on the way back I remembered Sarnakh quest for Greenleaf and decided to do that. While minor Sarnahks are ok and easy, the normal Sarnahks should be nowhere near starter area. There is no way to kill them with Arrows at this level, they are as fast as Bluetail and hard to hit even for experiences player. Even if I engaged one at 100% hp, I could not kite him with a bow and he killed me while being one hit from death. Being not new player, there isn't much that I could do, as the aggro range seemed quite long. I came back quickly
    to recover my loot and tried a few more times to kill one just to die again. I got 2 greenleaf out of 4 only and maybe 2 LM essences, but it was a big waste of time. Should also someone has looted me, it would have been ever worse experience. I came back to see I have 290 gold total and 52 LM.

    Then I went to Sanguine hoping to sell some of my Mysterious Essences and a Portal Shard, but could not find buyers as there were only newer players around who were also struggling with gold. I sold everything I could to vendor,
    even some of the same gear I got from quest rewards so I could buy GM and Rend. With no gold left and needing to buy Mana Efficiency LM and soon other spells I decided that I need to find a good income of gold.
    For now, I just went in to cash in those 2 selentine keys quick, because that's how real the gold struggle seemed :D I wouldn't ever cash these keys, but I thought having few hundred extra gold wouldn't be bad.


    I headed to Zombie / Skeleton spawn near Selentine Chest. I decided it's time to use Melee as I did not have Quicken Spells LM and didn't want to spam Mana Missle for only LM gains. I cleaned first spawn and got another Selentine Key. I suddenly realised that this will be my first gold farming place. I can just farm these with melee while handing in Selentine Keys as the cooldown for turning in is very short (2-3minutes?). Additionally, my bank is still empty so that odd studed chest or shield isn't too bad to get. I also got a few Witchcraft Essences from Dire Zombies and stayed until I had 25 Greatswords.

    It took me ~30minutes to get 11 Witchcraft essences, 7 LM essences, 1.5k gold (from ~6 total selentine keys) and some skinning mats from mobs + selentine chests. Nothing great, but enough to keep me going and it's more than I had in my bank. I also got like 6 studded chests, some leather hats, 1h weapons, staves etc. All other crap I sold for that extra 63 gold..

    I decided I will gather all the essences and try to craft them and use them before the end of the day. At this point I had around 2-2,5 hours in total of running around. It wasn't as effective as I liked but at least I found a good source of gold for this and possible next day until I can move to medium tiered mobs. The stat gains were around 0.5 STR/VIT from this farming. I banked my stuff and decided to take a break and think what I would do next.


    I later came back and decided to farm with Arrows next and start leveling GM / Rend. First I moved out of Starter Town to Copperdale and bound there so I could buy GM spells once I level it. Also finally bought LM Quicken Spells, Heal Mount, Mana Drain, a r20 bow from the gold that I had from Selentine trip.

    Grabbed all of my 230 arrows with me, a sickle (to gather papyrus if I get downtime or just am on a short break). Also got all of the quests from Copperdale as I was going to explore the loot tables of mobs anyway. So far I haven't seen GM essence (only LM and WC) and I knew I will need those soon. I killed some Skeletons first with Melee / Archery / LM, and got 110 bone. That was useful for leveling Rend as it uses bone. Then I moved to Giant Skeleton spawn.

    At Gian Skeleton Spawn I found my first GM essences. I used Rend / MM at the start, but got to 10 GM in like 12-14 casts of rend and didn't want to spam more until I buy GM durable spells when I am back in town. I then used mostly arrows and after 120-150 arrows had 25 Archery.
    Giant Skeletons dropped 3 GM essences at a time. However, I had to leave the Starter Area and had to loose my newbie protection to farm them. There is probably another source for them within the safe zone, but I did not care as I wanted to start using my mount at this point and I could not do it with noobie protection.

    I then did some Zombies on my way back for a quest and went back to get my shitty gold rewards again :) I also bought Disabling Blow, Knockback and Power Attack which left me with 200g in my bank. Not enough to buy Disabling shot and soon other skills like Maintenance, Survivalist etc. I also failed the Giant Skeleton quest as I had to go away for half an hour and the timer ran out so I did not kill 10.

    I went back, gave in quests and got next quests in the line, checking maybe the rewards will be better. The only good thing about the quest was that it directed me to a nice spawn of 4 Dire Zombies where I could kill them with range attacks to get WC essences. There was additional quest to shoot Mana Drain to a tree, which I also did. The rewards where not worth it yet, neither would be getting this spell.

    The session wasn't very progressive afterall, for multiple reasons:
    - I would not use a mount as newbie protection prevented me from doing so, this resulted in me running around on foot, using stam, needing resting etc. I was chugging small stamina/health pots all the time though to reduce downtime
    - I died to Sarnakhs twice and during Zombie run once. Sarnakhs I explained above, but while farming zombies I felt something was missing at the start and as I was doing it risky to reduce downtime and got low on stats, I did not hear the new mob spawn and got caught low on health and without stamina. Then I realised that mob spawn sound was removed and I should be more careful.
    - I got so used playing without Bindstone recall that I used it 1 time so far (sometime yesterday). This would have reduced my time drastically and from now I will make sure to use it.

    Feedback

    What is great so far:
    - I noticed buff / debuff timers as I started using food and doing PvE.
    - Selentine chest timer decrease is good source of basic income at the start (if nearby mobs also drop keys)
    - Essence drop rates seem pretty decent even on easy mobs. Can't wait to move to medium mobs to check further.

    What could be improved:
    - There should be a quest that sends you to the Selentine chest. I think there is little reason in hiding Selentine chest locations from players to discover them by using some external map. If there were quests that would give you a key and point you to the location to kill X mobs near the chest and cash it in, new players could more naturally discover it as a good source of starting income.
    - Quest rewards should give more gold than 120-130g. Considering you unlock everything a lot faster and buying 1 skill mostly costs 200-500g, I would think it would be reasonable if quests would give at least 4x-5x their current gold rate, so you could at least buy one skill after completing a quest.
    - Quest rewards give random pieces of gear during the quest so you can sort of gear up the more quests you do. I think we could get away with giving pieces so often and give something that resembles a set or half of set every 7-8 quests in the questline. There is nothing wrong with giving new players low-dura sets of studded or even banded/scale (at the end of questlines). Considering you could get ganked or just die to a mob and get looted, having more gear to play with at the start isn't a bad idea.
    - As it is a lot about getting essences, I think the questlines could better guide you through different mobs that drop LM / GM / WC / SC essences (the ones everyone might need some of at the start).
    - To improve the rewards further, consider adding things, that are really scarce and useful at the start as quest rewards. What I feel these things could be: blank scrolls, arrows, mount figurines, even 25x of each reg or maybe some meditation points as quest rewards somewhere in the questline. If they become valuable, new players will do them more and it will allow you to guide them through discovering different aspects of the game. This is how they were designed originally by AV so updating them according to Essences would also be nice :)
    - The quest where you have to kill X amount of mobs in 1 hour (NOT at LEAST, but X being static value), should really pause if you logout. There is nothing special about these quests really that makes them be like they are.
    - I would take example from EvE, where newbies are given basic ships as quest rewards at the start so they can go and not be afraid to loose it. Otherwise it presents the game as scarce and mis-represents the time required to get everything. After initial weeks or a month, a player will be able to farm 10k-15k gold easily, buying things will be thing of the past and replacing basic gear will not be a problem either. I think this message should be sent from the start of the game.
    - I would consider tweaking the quests (there are many where you have to shoot some spell to an object in the world) and make sure that it's always a useful spell, that would be more natural in further character progression (e.g. replace Mana Drain with Rend or Needless). Also, adding a good reward on top, will make sure that player would do the said quest. I've done most quests in DnD in Tribelands / Orks / Alfars and generally they all follow very similar questlines and all include quests like these.

    Not sure yet:
    - I feel like I would like to have jump-shot on LM/GM spells, but it's something I've got used to from DnD
    - Removal of mob spawn sounds
    --- Post updated ---
    Thanks for the offer, but I will try to play this by myself as much as I can during the weekend. I might take that odd r40 if I feel like it would progress me faster, but I think it would be more interessting if I put in some of the days playing solo (as most people are very hesitant usually to join clans at the start). Once I switch to more group grinding, it would be easier for someone more new to compare and see how much faster and efficient it can be.

    Thanks for the offer though, I might take it in a few days if it will still stand! :)
     
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    #10 mrW, Oct 15, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2016
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  11. Ramon Wolfs

    Ramon Wolfs Forum Administrator

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    This is awesome. Keep it up mrW!
     
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  12. mrW

    mrW Black Knight
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    Day 2 - part 2

    Playsession description
    Reviewed all the skills in the NPC, saw that I can buy Toughness already for 250g. Had to sell all my r0 1h weps, bows etc to get the remaining 140 gold so I could buy it. Next my plan is to go heavy in the Selentine chest spawn and do melee / rend farm. Once I get gold and have 50 GM, I will move to hobgoblins to do archery as they should drop arrows. I got as much food and minor pots as possible, basically risking what I have, because it wouldn't really make a difference if I would have farmed naked later due to dieing. For a new player it's not a risk I would suggest to take though. Mostly you will get enough regs at Zombies and tower is close enough that you can run should someone try to gank you.

    I grabbed 2 Greatwosrds (60 dura total); 100 bone; 3 r0 staffs; 50 mandrake; 50 resin; 40resin; 40 sulfur. Sadly I don't have any small stamina pots left but I took 20 hp pots with me so I have less downtime at Dire Zombies as you loose health fast when meleeing them. As I am risking my only gear and greatswords, I will try to get 1k gold and bank quick as it's primetime and I want to have at least 1k gold if I get ganked later.

    So I stayed there for 50mins and did farming with MM / Rend and some Melee while mana was low. I got my GM to 30 to buy Mana Efficiency GM, rend to 28, Mana Missile to 44 and Greatswords to 32.
    The overall loot was way worse than expected as I got no keys and only 449gold after I sold all the scrap, 3 WC essences a lot of r0 staves and 1h swords. The good side that Zombies constantly drop regs you can use to cast Rend, Transfers so I still came back with same amount of regs as I left with.

    I bought GM Mana Efficiency and Unburden, looked at Spell Upgrades for LM/GM, but at 1k each it's not something I will be able to afford in the coming day or two. I grabbed 125 mandrake, 50 of other regs and left for round-two for Selentine chest same spot leaving only 21g in my bank.
    I decided to trying different tactic now and level Zombie Warriors or Skeleton Warrios in the hopes to get more valuable loot. Sadly all my gear is breaking and I only have bone chest left, but that will have to do for now.

    Leveling did not work even though I tried a few times and seems not to be worth the hassle as I'd rather level stuff at this point than just get hit. Restating and healing up is still slow without Witches Brew and at low spell levels.
    I came back after 1 hour and had 35 Greatswords, 75 Lesser Magic (29 Durable, 29 Efficiency, 24 Quicken), just enough to buy Intensify LM. I also had 37 GM (13 Durable, 8 Efficiency), 33 Rend, 47 Mana Missile, 29 Heal Self and transfers around 20. I mostly used magic this time to finish leveling LM. Loot was bad again and I got only 1 selentine key so I returned with ~600g, only 5 WC and 3 LM essences. I think I only got very lucky the first time here and the spot does not seem worth the time investment.

    I used Capital Recall for the first time so I can get to Sanguine to buy it and possibly do a small trade to get some extra gold.
    I sold 2 essences for 1k gold extra in Sanguine, bought LM Intensify, Witchcraft, Needless. I also got Bluetail as a present which I will keep for longer travels as I still have my horse which someone gave me yesterday and a steedgrass as a backup. Updated my hotbars and made a short break while thinking what to do next as I somehow felt done with Zombies and wanted to focus on GM/WC Essences instead and continue doing Archery / Rend / Needles farming.

    I decided to check Hobgoblins next in the hopes they drop enough arrows for sustained farming. I bought new r10 (!!) greatsword and 100 bone. Grabbed some 60 nacre, 100 arrows (all arrows I had). I had no gold left in my bank when I left to farm hobgoblins.
    I still had a quest to kill Hobgoblins from Copperdale and was still bound there, so my plan was to end my day there and using all the LM scrolls before I end my day. But I needed gold for that.

    After arriving at Hobgoblins, I started killing them with Rend / Needles and MM and proceeded to melee them down after they were at 50%. This worked well and I could even kill a Hobgoblin Veteran without much trouble. The gold is 25-30 on average, you get some
    fine arrows (4-6 per kill every few kills) and occasional r30 bow, r20 1h swords. This however did not drop any essences and I felt like I should leave shortly after I finished my quest and got 10 WitchCraft. I recalled to Copperdale to buy Durable Spells WC and thought
    about trying to kill Giant Skeletons again that I tried earlier today as they were dropping 3x GM essences every time and that seems like something worth my time and it's the only mob I know that drops them.

    I recalled back to Copperdale after 25mins later after I left (travel + 6-7 hobgoblins) with 400g (together with what I got from a quest reward) so I had enough to buy some skills. After I gave in quest in Copperdale, it opened me to a lot nicer quests in the chain. I got a quest with r40 bow or 30 q1 sparkstone as a reward which I can invest later to make some battlespikes and hopefully cap a village. Current quest rewards also gave me 75 arrows which was just perfect for the next trip.

    I decided I can spend one more hour and try to do Giant Skeleton quest again, in the hopes that it will open a better quest. I picked up Kill 10 Giant Skeletons in 1hour quest and heade out. I mostly used Rend and Mana Missiles until I was low of mana and then proceeded to use a bow. However the normal arrows seem to do pretty much same damage as Mana Missile and killing them was taking time. Was using food, pots and all transfers all the time, still after 30mins I only killed 5 of them. Seeing that I need to keep pushing this spawn, I made a mistake and got caught by another Giant Skeleton which spawned when I did not hear it. Even if they are huge ass Skeletons, it's funny that they only make same sounds as you while walking on the grass. Anyway, I was bound close so I came back to try to kill them while the timer was runnig, but could not manage to. Still, at least I got the skillups, but I was too tired as it was late and logged off.

    Feedback
    Things I like:
    - Toughness and similar skills not needing to level.
    - After day 2 I can finally say that I have some feeling on the speed on character progression. So far it seems skills and spells level very fast. I think this is very decent rate and I would not go any faster for release (I personally wouldn't even mind slower).
    - I noticed player tips in the loading screen and it's a nice simple thing to add.

    Things that could use improving:
    - Maybe set mininum drop rate for selentine keys around the chests so new players can use them more to gain gold initially. Having newbie "hotspots" can also backfire as griefers would go there to camp them, but I think having an opportunity to farm gold there would make it worth it.
    - Spell Upgrade cost for LM/GM spells does not warrant the 1000g. It should be lowered to maybe 100 or even 50g so players can experiment and see what those updates are. Maybe even add a quest somewhere to buy one.
    - It felt weird that Heal Mount would not level upon use.
    - As a human, I was mostly eating berries I gathered on day 1 or some things that I looted. With Human Ingenuity it's doable but I am running low on food already. Perhaps more food awards in the quests would be nice.
    - I think you could add Potions and Food to the hotbar at the start. Making sure new players get used to using them early is important and small potions arent really ever useful except maybe at the very start (now)
    - There is max quest limit of 15 quests. As I took all the Title Quests and have some unfinished quests, I start to reach the limit sometimes and already had to cancel 1 or 2 quests in order to pickup a new one. I don't think a limit of 15 serves any purpose really and could possibly be increased to 50 or so.
    - The 1h/Shield icon seems to always bug out and is acting weird in the hotbar. I will investigate later to see if I can file a proper bug report for hits.
    - The skipping of spells from cycles if you don't have certain regs really fucked me over a few times. I have all 3 transfers bound to same key (lets say "Q") in this order (Stamina to Health -> Mana to Stamina -> Health to Mana). Now while meleeing a mob I was low on HP and stamina and wanted to stat up. My mechanical memory knows, that in order to cast Mana to Stamina, I need to press Q twice. I do so and automatically cast it, only to realised that after last cast I used all my resin and now instead of Mana to Stamina I casted Heatlh to Mana just to put my HP even lower. I almost died twice like this.
    - The stats seem to level way to slow compared to meditation. I believe gathering might be a lot better way to do it, but this is something I will have more time to test in the coming days as I will be more busy with work. However, I feel like there should be alternative options. The potions allowed me to get to 25 very fast, but the slow down compared to then is a bit too big. Also, I feel like there should be alternatives besides gathering (and I don't count in meditation as I view it as something "extra"). It's best to meditate stats, there is no question about it at this point and I feel like it somehow limits your choice on how you want to progress your character (besides picking which stat to level first, but there's not much choice there either). Some ideas how this could be solved if you want to extend upon existing stat potion system:
    - just straight away increase stat gain from melee / archery / magic. I know you did this recently, but I feel like it will be very slow to progress via PvE after your stats are at 50ish. I don't know if this is intended, but it feels too slow compared to meditation gain of stats or leveling speed of skills and spells in general
    - add pots in questlines of non-starter towns that you can use from e.g. 30-40to get +1 all stats. If every questline had 2-3 pots of these, there would be more reason to do quests and every 6-7 quests you would get nice progress stat wise. It would be an alternative to gathering, something extra. Being max at 40 would also not be too fast as usually doing questline in one city (from 17 to 25 quests) can take 3-4hours. It can be done much faster if you cooperate with other players.
    - the idea regarding pots could be extended further. Chaos city quests could give pots for 40-50, but these should be reworked to include harder mobs. You could make it even more interessting and only open these quests only to the -1000 alingment players. As an alternative for blues, add quests in Capitals and require "Saint" status to do them. This could really play out interessting and give more meaning to choosing if you want to start as "blue" or "red". After getting stats to 50, I feel most will feel viable in one way or another and be encouraged to venture out in the world as a full blue (saint) or full red (evil) and start your DF journey from there.
    - consider increasing stat gain based on rank of weapons you use. Higher rank weapons could increase the stat gain. It would make you want to level with higher rank gear later, but this might be prone to mob exploiting
     
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    #12 mrW, Oct 16, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2016
  13. DestLocke

    DestLocke Chosen of Khamset
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    Thanks again for taking the time to do all this.
     
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  14. mrW

    mrW Black Knight
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    No problem. If I have time later, I will be able to expand this further either to some sort of guide or maybe fill it with videos at some point. I haven't thought about recording, but I will try to do that and maybe I can get some video in-place. Although it will take me long time to edit and upload.

    Stay tuned, today is exciting so far :p
    --- Post updated ---
    I did a small teaser update for today as it turned out big post again. I will have time to finish editing and posting everything tomorrow in the evening. Otherwise, I will be back Wednesday evening with a next update as I will be mostly meditating until Wednesday evening! :)

    Some screenshots from today:


    The stat, skill and spell progress together with a quick teaser and short overview was added to the original post!
     
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  15. Lakisuria_Moonglade

    Lakisuria_Moonglade Varangian Warthane
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    A small comment on food. If you don't mind leveling up goblin fighters, they can drop 10 meat stew on a cooldown of roughly 10 minutes and they last 15 minutes base.

    To level up a goblin fighter they need to deal around 150 hp worth of damage to you.
     
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  16. Aristos Giannes

    Aristos Giannes Cairn Giant
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    I'd be really interested to see a totally new player make a journal with this much detail.
     
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  17. mrW

    mrW Black Knight
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    - Day 3 -

    I had quests to kill Melechars and Flesh golems a short ride from Copperdale. I took ~70 arrows, 2h sword, 120 sulfur (in case Eldrich Sphere would be useful), 50 of every other regs (only had 20 resin left) some food and geared up in as many peaces as I could find in my bank.
    I tried Flesh Golem but he had too much HP and I could not hit him hard enough neither with Arrows nor Mana Missile. So after a few minutes of trying I decided it's best to move to Melechar spot right next for a different quest.

    From DF days I remember I used to Melee Melechas to level daggers so I started by pulling one closer with Eldrich Sphere and use Melee to get it down without needing to heal. Should I low run on health, I would focus on using Mana Missile / Rend and some Eldrich Sphere while healing up. This was all to reduce downtime and use both health and mana for full efficiency before I really need to rest. The loot for melechars seem to be finally decent. 40-50g, Spell Changing Essence and some arrows is just what I needed in my bank. I also got Veilron key after clearing the spawn. I

    While farming the 2nd spawn of Melechars I noticed that there was a dungeon entrance hidden at the side of the spawn. I continued to farm for 30mins here, I had 20 SC Essences, 2 Veilron Keys, 1000 gold and some arrows. I also got like 38->42 in Greatswords and leveled LM / GM. This was the first time I really started feeling a basic adrenaline only by farming. Even after I got the first key, knowing that my bank had no more than a hundred gold, what I had in my backpack was really suddently worth a lot. My mind started playing tricks with me and started pushing my imagination towards a possible incoming gank or even just dieing to a mob here and getting looted before I can come back. It was a small but nice rush of adrenaline every time I filled the contents of my backpack with valuable loot. I remembered how good this game can be is at sending you through the roller-coaster of exciting or sometimes sad emotions. That was always one of the parts what made Darkfall great for me.

    I quickly checked an external map and realised this is Veilron dungeon and I thought I will go cash in Veilron Keys. I was very low on regs and had no food left, but cashing those 2 keys would put me to 5k gold, this is what I originally planned to have at the end of previous day but could not accomplish. So I decided to try to capitalize on this further. This was one of the few dungeons in game that I haven't ever visited yet, so the risk was still great, but I hoped my in-game experience will keep me alive and I had a recall to get out easily.

    Once I entered the dungeon I was nicely surprised to see standard reg prices so I could restock my regs properly. I found no food anymore, but at least there was a food crate to give me 3 apples (lol). At this point I wouild really only use them if I get into shitty situation and low on stamina. There was a quest to kill 3 cave spiders which I've picked up. The cave spiders was something I'd prefer to avoid at this point, but at least it let me know what to expect here.

    I went deeper inside the dungen and saw a goblin spawn on the way. I cleared the spawn quick and got some alingment points as I killed Goblin Marauder (nice surprise!). The spawn rate was quite fast and by the time I looted and skinned they started respawning, so I cleared one more spawn to loot a Selentine Key and went further.

    I finally reached cave spiders.. I tried cleaning the spawn for like 30minutes with help of Eldrich sphere and Arrows, but it was too difficult at this stage. I could get 1-2 spiders to 20% HP but had to go back rest and every time I would come back the low health ones would be at the back while full heatlh ones up front. I tried approching the spawn from different angles and that caused me to almost die a few times. First I positioned in between two spawns of Cave Spiders and different spawn of Goblins, with no safe space to rest. I barely survived, but that would've been a straight death sentence with no way out for a new player. I also accidentally run into Lizardmen spawn in the cave next, while I was looking for hiding place to rest. It was a very fun experience in all, that had me on my toes most of the time. I even got 25 Eldrich Sphere in the process but it wasn't enough to clear cave spider room where I suspected the chest was. I killed only 1 spider in all this time.

    After a bit of thinking I decided that it might be worth approaching this Leeroy Jenkins style. I took my shield and just ran into the cave spider room hugging one side of the wall. I knew how aggro mechanics work and keeping the range aggro on Cave Spiders was possible and I managed to run into the room with the chest and hide hoping to loose aggro. It seem to have worked and I handed in my first key and started resting again by hugging the wall. 3mins later, second key was handed in and I was ready to recall back. I moved to the corner and hugged the wall as much as possible before hitting the bindstone recall. There was no way back, only by recall or death. 30% into the recall a spider walked near the chest and 3 meters in front of me. I got a bit nervous for a few seconds there as their attacks knock you back. Happily I did not get aggro and he turned away. I was happy to see loading screen, only few minutes later to realize that I got loading screen bug now and I need to relog to get back into the game. Time for a break :)

    The game put me back on my toes when I logged in later as it put me back in the dungeon. Luckly, no surpises while I recalled.
    The previous trip took me 1,5hours total, which was 40mins farming Melechars, 15mins traveling and the rest exploring the dungeon. I came back with 4.2k gold, 20 Spell Chanting Essences, 15 LM Essences, skinning mats and other various loot from the trip. I also had 1.2k gold extra from melechars only, but I spent that to restock once I entered the dungeon, so that would put me to 5.4k gold total and around 3.8k/hour. Not bad for a 3rd day character considering I also got nice gains. After I sold all the scrap I had 4.8k gold. A bit late, but not too far from yesterday's goal.

    First thing I decided to do is finally craft some scrolls as this is something I knew nothing about yet! I decided to use all Lesser Magic ones, as I already had all subskills (the scrolls should level them too!). This would ensure their maximum potential. Additionally, leveling most LM spells is quite fast to 25 and you would rather do it manually. I find a lot of papyrus plant when riding a round and try to pick up, so I should have enough.

    I had 102 papyrus which I collected mostly from running around. There's plenty and it's easy enough to spot. Additionally I find that usually there are few next to each-other, so taking them does not seem like such a hassle and worth turning to the side with (as long as you travel by mount).
    Successfully crafted 51 blank scrolls. Decided to go with 10 Heal Self Scrolls to see what the scrolls really give (I had 76 LM Essences total) and test the waters. This scroll takes only 1 LM Essence and should give me a rough idea on what to expect (all the others take 2 Essences).

    That choice turned out to be pretty good as 10 scrolls put my Heal Self from 38 to 51 (9 would have been enough to 50). My LM went from 85->86 and all the sub-skills got increased by 0.7-1.1. I proceeded to craft and read the following scrolls:
    - 18 scrolls of Stamina to Health (level 22 -> 50)
    - 15 scrolls of Mana to Stamina (level 25 ->49)

    Eating all these scrolls (Heal Self included) gave me 5 points of LM and 5 points in intensify (and other subskills). You can see it in the screenshot below, the first row is what I had intiially, then after reading 10 Heal Self scrolls and the last one is after I read all of them.



    I think the gains from the scrolls are quite spoton. I also know that my friends can farm them at way bigger quantities than I do, so once I start traveling around Agon and farming the good spots, getting them will not be a problem. I still expect that they might slow down for Elemental or other schools, but I will get to test that sometime in the future. Also, even as I played the old Darkfall, this kind of leveling process by using scrolls somehow felt nicely integrated part of the character progression. It might get dull after a while, but we will see.

    So far that's the only real crafting that I did and that I plan to do for a long time. The game sort of tried to point me to gathering from the start and even gave me various tools for Tailoring, Woodcutting, Smelting etc. While introduction to refining and gathering is nice, it somehow pushes you too much into that whole sink of crafting and gathering. I know that at this point doing any kind of gathering or crafting would be just a time and resource sink so I avoid it at all costs. However, this is problematic as I cannot buy stuff that I need from other crafters. It shouldn't be hard attaining basic gear (this is where most of that r0-r30 that all of you crafted but trashed should go). If there were player vendors or market in the cities, I feel like that would solve a lot of problems. Another way that would feel natural, is if I would be able to put craft orders at the crafting stations. That would require me to put all the mats there and any crafter visiting a station would see my order and could easily craft it. I would have to come back to pick it up at the same station. When there is a source to buy gear (or trade it for my mats in terms of orders), I would really feel like not having all the crafting is just a part of the game that I might explore later, but not having it does not make me so inefficient in getting gear.

    I handed in my Melechar Quest to get the rewards (200g + scale globes + 30x q1 cinder + 5x ichor +2x major stam pot). I went to buy some spells:
    - LM - Launch
    - GM - Infliction Shield, Insight;
    - WC - Exhaust.

    I then bought Spell Chanting school and found new Damage Spell called Mana Blast that you can now get at level 1 SC for damage. That opens a nice way to level SC at the start. There's also semi-useful Stamina Self-Buff that I can get at lvl 10 when I buy Durable Spells later. What was left from the gold after buying these was spent to buy Disabling Shot for Archery, Nodachi (r20 Greatsword! My favorite model) 180 bone, r40 staff and was left with 31g in my bank. 5k well spent!

    I also realised I need to get Veteran Mage soon and for that I need 75 GM. As GM is annoying to level and I need the bone for Needless (Rend uses it too), I think I will focus on getting more GM Essences first and spam Rend and Needlees while doing it. Then I hope that scrolls will help me push my GM to 75 so I can buy Veteran Mage sometime next week.

    I bought Nodachi (r20 Greatsword! My favorite model) 180 bone and was left with 31g in my bank. I made sure to get regs with me to level SC and so I don't need to restock.

    My next farming trip I took most of what I had from my bank:
    - 200 ash and 200 mandrake (for mana blast), 40 resin (it's still very scarce), 480 bone and 128 nacre.(for Needles / Rend), 100 Sulfur (for Eldrich Sphere). For a new player I'd recommend taking 30% of that but I wanted to do a quest quickly to get 10 SC and come back to pickup SC Durable to continue. I felt confident that I can survive as the quests are close and I did not want to spend time restocking. I just needed to be back with 200-400g at least to buy Spell Chanting subskill.

    I proceeded to the Night Hag Quest. I was picking up all the papyrus I found on my way as I only had 8 blank scrolls left and no papyrus. On the way to Night Hags I passed another NPC which I already did some quest for previously and decided to stop by. It also offered additional quests so I also picked a quest to kill Ogre Bullies. As Ogre Bullies were close by and also on the way to Night Hags, I decided to hit Ogres first.

    How i killed my first ogre bully you can see in this lengthy video below. Note:
    - I only used food at the start as I was running low and sometimes would also forget to use it. Still, it's not something I could even afford doing full time now.
    - I could have killed them better by using only Arrows, but they are too scarce and the point of this short trip was to mainly get SC to 10 quickly while also doing 2 quests quick.
    - Cairn Giants were one of my favorite mob to farm for gold and the AI of Oggre Bullies is the same, thus I know these mobs well and felt like I could play around with them more to shoot more spells.
    - I suddenly had 230 ping when I was recording an fps dropped considerably so I was a bit off at the start.

    https://youtu.be/x3v0_mACKxQ

    Ogre Bullies went down with arrows and some rend / MM / Eldrich / Mana blast spam. After I killed the one in the video, I wasted next 5minutes trying to kill another only to realise it was a Boss. They look exactly the same and there was no real indication that it might be stronger so it took me some time to notice that. His aggro was a bit too much to deal with so I moved to a better spawn near by. Killed 1 more and then met another player who also started farming there. He didn't see me at first so I first checked if he's blue and decided to stay for 2 more kills while keeping an eye on him in case he tries to do something funny. It all turned out well and I quickly finished 2 more ogres. The drops were decent and most gold a pop that I have seen so far. ~100g, 2-3 stone, Air Essences, maybe timber.

    I then proceeded to Swamp Hags as I needed 2 hearts for the quest. While their spells did some damage, I would heal and try to melee them down quick. My first r10 GS broke here and it's good that I had a Nodachi (r20 GS) with me that I bought previously. It turned out to be even better and was doing it's job but there were a few times where I was really low on stamina as I had no food and resin left at this point.








    The overall drop is quite decent as it drops some regs (sometimes resin), Earth Magic Essences but wasn't worth staying for longer. I rode back collecting papyrus as the ogre quest wasn't in Copperdale so I coudln't use recall. Quests give in on the way pick new; got 30ingots, scale gloves and r40 polearm (bleeeeh). It feels like they should give me some sort of "get one 2h weapon free at the vendor" ticket instead, where I could go to NPC vendor and trade it for a 2h weapon of my choice.

    I came back to Copperdale with 700 gold, bought Max Stamina Buff + durable SC, took my last 25 resin from bank and bought 50 more for last 200g that I had. Stamina is biggest problem at the start keeping you slow, that's why I am meditating Quickness to 50 first to get Endurance skill, which will help with Stamina Regen a lot. Previous trip took me around 40mins with some delays and mostly served to explore mob spots, loot and get SC to 10. Hags are decent to melee (should be very easy with r40) while Ogre Bullies requiring arrows aren't worth the hassle for now. It's possible they can drop a runestone, but that is not at the top of my priorities now.

    Next, I decided to go try my luck at the Melechars again as at this point it seemed like a perfect spot to level melee and some magic with the resources that I had. I didn't expect to be so lucky with, but even without them it's around 2.5k pure gold per hour and the skinning mats can be sold easily for a good price as they are needed for Shadecrafting. I also had that Flesh Golem quest and that mob for me was my next "test of power". Once I am able to solo that mob, I should be powerful enough to make some mad gold to increase my progression and farming capabilities exponentially.

    When farming Melechars I would shoot spells until they come close in melee range and would Melee them down. The spawn is nicely split so I rarely pull more than 2 or 3. I however lost my mount here as I was too loaded and had to farm with my mount spawned but did not notice when the mob aggroed it as I was killing the other one. I farmed until all of the staffs that I had broke. Even being low on regs I have tried to kill flesh golem but I did not do enough damage yet even with r20 bow. I need that r40 bow first, as my r20 bow does similar damage as Mana Missile. And that r40 bow is a quest reward after I kill the Flesh Golem. I have spent around an 1hour 20mins here, but I overextended once and died so I had to run back. This is where my bluetail came to use. I also got a some (~1.5k) gold and ~20 SC essences.

    I came back to Copperdale and took a short break. When I came back I decided it's time to pay a visit to Skeleton Giants again and do the quest hoping that it might open up a new quest. My 25+ Eldrich Sphere and Mana Blast worked here. I would also cast Rend and Needless, but only to level them. Once Giant Skeleton was around 40% I decided to try to push in Melee with my Nodachi.





    Melee turned out to work efficiently if I was careful enough although I do not think it's something that a more new player could execute. Overall I had higher spells and my output of damage already felt way better than that of previous day. My range spells were doing sufficient damage, I could stat better and could push to melee for the killing blows:




    It was a spawn of 2 and I even would have a time to rest up mostly to 80% until they respawn. At 30minutes mark I had 8 kills and was done in 38-40minutes:



    While farming I also noticed something special about this mob that most mobs do not have in Darkfall. Most of the time before charging you in melee, the Giant Skeleton would Roar loudly so you can hear it. This was nice aspect and allowed me to more react to the mobs or predict what he was doing. It wouldn't happen all the time, but a few times it made sense after he was zig-zagging or running around. The AI did not look as "stupid" or "random". For newer players I think clues like these would help a lot. It should also be possible in the engine as mobs like Fire Dragon have different sounds (e.g. special sound he makes every time he flies away) so this can be used to expand things easily even if it comes to reuse of some sounds at the start. I wanted to make a video of it but my external hard drive was full.

    As you can see I was out of resin and farming risky while very low on stamina. This is what most of the time costs me a trip back to the bindstone and I need to sort out my food supply and get Endurance for. Managing stats in Darkfall takes time to learn. Everything being so ineffective at the start sometimes brings the wrong perspective.

    As I moved out of the spawn after killing last Giant Skeleton I also found my first Chaos Chest!



    I couldn't figure out how much gold I got as it stacked to the gold I already had. It additionally gave me 13 Iron Ore and 6 Timber which is nice in comparison to getting only random shitty amount of gold. However, seeing the new addition to the game as Papyrus, I feel like more props like these should be added instead of chaos chests. The chests are very big objects and most of the time look out of place with this world. Finding something in terms of smaller bags could me more entertaining and hard.

    As I was done with the quest I noticed that I still cannot hand it in for the next 20 minutes. This did not seem very logical, but I decided to use this time to recall back to the capital and maybe do a trade. I had some ingots and wood that I hoped I would be able to trade for some arrows.

    It was a funny moment that one player recognized me and messaged me saying he liked reading these stories and it felt funny but at the same encouraging that someone likes it!. I had some small-talk and when asked if I needed anything I remembered the arrows. I offered him 30 wood/ingots in hopes to get 600 or so arrows only to realize that I haven't been updated with the new arrow system. I looted some of these fine arrows from Hobgoblins, but it was only 20 and I didn't bother to test them and I thought it would just be better than previous arrows, but something to invest in later. Anyway, after the conversation it seemed like Fine Arrows is the arrows you wanna get now as the normal ones are a bit nerfed. The Fine ones also seem to cost even more and I started suspect that they were the cause my r20 bow was doing same damage as lvl 50 mana missile.

    After some (mis)calculations I offerred a trade to get ~180 fine arrows and the player said yes and asked me to come a bit further from bank. He then quickly dropped 800 fine arrows on the ground and as there were many people around I felt like I should use this opportunity to get some arrows. He declined my offer of mats and said offered me to put it in a bag and put for someone to pick up. I realized that I still haven't tested this feature and that was the best opportunity to treat the RNG gods right. Thank you, Wes! <3

    I then myself and proceeded to drop the mats for ~170 fine arrows in separate places around the bank:




    I realized this is quite fun thing to do and adds another option to somehow interact with the world. At the same time I started to wonder if these can be used somehow more creatively to save some of your loot if you are jumped while farming. But that is not something to think about now.

    The 800 Fine Arrows that I got I split to 180 and 620. The bigger stack I put into separate "Donation Bag", which I will start using only at last days of Trial.

    While I was jerking around the bank like this some player traded me and first offered a nice r40 GreatAxe, but I felt like I shouldn't focus on getting that yet, even though the Power Attack at 25 GreatAxe could become useful to farm later, it wasn't something I wanted to mess with for now. I politely declined the trade and few seconds after got offerd a Horse. I said thanks and accepted that to replace my first horse that died earlier that day. This will allow me to keep Bluetail in bank for situations where I need to get somewhere quickly (like my corpse).

    I quickly bought Quicken GM and Telekinesis while in capital. Them being at 50 I feel like I wouldn't like to level them more, but there are Begone and Shrapnel spells there which are important for bunny-hoping and could be especially useful now at the start. However, it looks like I still need to keep Rend in my rotations for now.

    I quickly checked my minimap and realized I have the quest in the Newbie Dungeon. I jumped in for 5minutes to kill some scumlings. I noticed that they skin for tons of claw and I think this was possibly changed. Also potatoes and carrots seem to drop at a nice rate. The spawn is fast, but at this point my nodachi would do 60% of their total HP in one hit and it wasn't remotely interessting so I left asap. I handed in the quest to get like 10 ingots and recalled back to Copperdale.

    Before calling it a day I decided to test the Fine Arrows. I brought 100 of each and went to Flesh Golem. The initial test showed me that I did 3-4 damage more with Fine Arrows (9 with Normal, 13 with Fine). I also had deer stick at this point and my Eldrich Sphere would hit for 19. The fight was quite challenging as you can see:







    Sadly after the last screenshot he decapped me in the water (straight to loading screen) while being at 1%. I rode back on a bluetail quickly to and got my stuff, but I used more than half of my arrows already and I needed to kill 2 for the quest. I quickly went to Melechars and proceeded to kill them for 15-20 more minutes until my Nodachi Broke. I had 49.5 Greatswords, almost enough to get to 50 for Whirlwind to accomplish the day's goal. I checked my Witchcraft and Spell Chanting was around 25 (close to 30 for Witches Brew and Sacrifice), and while I could have spammed some spells, without being able to melee I thought it was not worth it. This is something that I can take care of during the first hour of my next play session.

    Overall I am happy with the days results and I almost reached most goals of the day. I started noting more things as I had more ideas or feedback so that caused me some slowdowns. Most of the playsession report is ready, but I don't have time to finish it to post today yet.

    I will be very busy first half of the week and my main source of progress until Wednesday evening will be meditation. I do hope to have a chance to login for an hour an evening and hope to do some basic gathering so I can get better idea how fast stats raise by doing that.
     
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    #17 mrW, Oct 17, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2016
  18. Viciousboxx

    Viciousboxx Crypt Guard
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    RIP farmingbuddy. :( In time i will save you from this delusional quest :( :(
     
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  19. Super Star

    Super Star Oak Lord
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    awesome thread keep it up, appreciate all the detailed feedback you are giving
     
  20. mrW

    mrW Black Knight
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    Feedback (day3)

    Things I liked so far:
    - Hotbat, Hotbar, Hotbar. I use like 2 hotbars total, but I have some nice setup, where if any of my weapons break mid-combat, I don't have to re-drag anything. Additionally, I can bind one button to use best stamina potion I have. This is great. However, you need to add a tutorial how to use it and even have basic setup in the initial settings (e.g. put all transfers to cycle on one button; put all pots in etc.). Also, I still do not understand what is "Burst" for. I will eventually find out, but for now it seems mystical.
    - Papyrus in general is great. Finding it and picking it is fun. Additionally, being able to get it via Herb Gathering puts more use to that gathering type as it was one of the shittiest things to do unless you need steedgrass badly. I also managed to collect ~100 papyrus today while riding so you are not forced to only gather for these all the time.
    - Item dropping on the ground is a great change. Interaction with the world and alternative to trade. I also notice that some players drop random shit instead of trashing around banks and for a newb like me I can just sell it for extra few gold or even sometimes use it.
    - Scroll system seems a nice addition and part of the game somehow. I was afraid it would feel very different, but I believe it's great addition that can even be expanded upon further in the future to give more depth.
    - The Icons and Art (all be it basic) so far seems to match the theme of original game (e.g. Papyrus Icon, New Scroll Icons etc.). Great job keeping same theme in art.
    - New crafting menus is a move into the right direction
    - Normal prices for reagents in Dungeons is good! It should be a standard "restock" place, at least in easy or medium difficulty dungeons.
    - Alingment dungeon seems a cool idea
    - Capital Recall is great for activity and meeting other players that otherwise live outside of NPC cities. It's been a 2-3 times since I used this recall and I always found someone in there. It makes capital more alive as there is most of the time people who go there. The city (at least Sanguine) always feels alive. I also like the fact that it's kind of "stay blue" incentive as I don't think reds have anything like that. Considering there is some sort of markets or player vendors in Capitals in the future, it would be even more of an incentive. Still, for reds, this opens a possibility to expand the game. You could add some sort of "Chaos City Conquer" mechanic, where one Chaos City at the time from all could be set as some sort of Capital. You could tie in Villages and make surrounding Villages against Chaos City capitals more rewarding for the time, so this would add more meaning and would be more dynamic but also "risky". It would be a way for "Reds" to gather but they could not depend on that location too much should it change. If you would allow even blue players to use it, then most clans should be able to just recall there and if the extra village gold is worth it you might have more concentrated PvP action.
    Additionally, I somehow feel that having some sort of "Capital" title for chaos cities, that could only be used for Chaos Reca

    Things that I feel could be improved:
    - Mount Lean bind keys. I play DnD without those keys bound and I have to do same in RoA. The whole monted comba hotkeys could be contextual (so you could set completele separate keys to use while mounted and they could overlap with other keys)
    - Alingment dungeon needs to be somehow more presented to the player and be attached to the world lore. When entering the dungeon, if the first mob you meet is the one for alingment (it was the case for me), maybe also put the quest for the same mob too. You could mark those quests in a different color to distinguish them as "Alingment Quests". They could have some basic introduction like "The mobs have infested this Human dungeon, help clean it up to regain your alingment with the Humans and replenish your sins".
    - New Crafting Menu recipes seem to act weirdly if you explore different recipes while crafting.
    - Being able to recall from dungeons is a bit meh and this single point gives them much more different approach in DnD than in RoA. Some dungeons are designed that they are not easy to leave and present a challenge doing so. It gets even more interessting if you get jumped. Should PvP inside happen, no one can really hide and recall in 2 minutes. I generally think that you should at least experiment with disabling recall from dungeons as it introduces more possibilities to actually make it more of a hotspot and harder to get out of. Imagine you are farming in the middle of neithal dungeon with a friend and you are bound nearby. Now another group of 2 comes in and kills you and you have like tons of loot in there. With them needing to clean mobs to exit, it would give you time and opportunity to re-gear and possibly go wait for them at the exit. Somone would still need to get the loot ouf of the dungeon before they could recall home. The bigger downside of this is that some bigger dungeons (like middle dungeon) would need a fix for this, maybe requiring to add multiple exits at different parts. A simple workaround would be to make recall possible in bigger dungeons where this would not make much sense. Additionally, you would somehow need to fix fall through the world exploit for leaving the dungeon. This all comes from experience of DnD, where there is no recall and most dungeons have like double spawn (sometimes to the point where it took 1-1.5hours to actually leave the dungeon due to the challenge presented by double mob spawns). If you want a challenge, go to Hardruk dungeon in DnD as a group of 2 and try to leave it. That's how a fun dungeon should be, not all of them, but if leaving it is such a challenge and there is no way to recall, you could at the same time increase the loot tables or spawns and make certain dungeons more of a hotspots for small groups to farm.
    - The item weight seems a bit too much. Especially when at this point I need to loot everything to clear old graves and to get that few extra gold when I sell it.
    - The food crates in the dungeon are nice and I think you should make sure there is one hidden at every entrance of most dungeons. However, I would suggest to put something like 2-3 hours personal coodlown on it, but instead give a mix of every different food (e.g. 10x fish; 5x meat jerky; 1x meat stew). It would make it actually useful as current 3x apple or 4x potatoes do not help much when farming.
    - I believe there is too big of a difference between the Newbie Dungeon in Capital City and other Easy Dungeons. The dungeon I was in I would consider an easy as it had Goblins, Cave Spiders and Lizardmen (maybe something else too but I didnt check too deep). It's a veilron dungeon too. I feel like the spawns in those dungeons should be targeted to newer players. I would make them smaller but with a faster respawn rate. For a new character it's very difficult to start at the spawns of 4 as it's hard to aggro mobs one by one and they swap places when low a lot. I would make them just spawns of 2x mostly, where the respawn is X minutes after last kill. This would be a possibly easier change to do than rebalancing or moving spawns around. From what I remember in Darkfall, Veilron keys weren't really worth cashing in for a veteran so I think putting more effort towards making Veilron Dungeons more newbie friendly wouldn't be a loss to any endgame content.
    - Loading screen bug :)
    - The quest rewards a lot of the times give some type of weapon as a reward. I think this is somehow not aligning with player's choices. I have no use of that r40 polearm but it makes me sick that I only have r0 Greatsword in my bank at this point (my Nodachi broke). Some simple system like giving me a "get your 2h weapon of choice from vendor" ticket, that I could exchange for the weapon I want, would make more sense.
    - I think it would be helpful for new players if you put some of the LM/GM/WC/SC damage spells that you could buy in the dungeon. For example if someone comes into the veilron dungeon and there are mobs that are weak to eldrich sphere there, then I think there should be ability to buy and train it there. This is how new players could be guided a bit more to discover that certain mobs have certain weeknesses. Additionally, if there were quests for most mobs in the dungeon, it would serve as a guidance to know what you can expect to run into here. Most people are going to check external map anyway and you don't have to expose everything through quests, but some sort of indication would be nice.
    - Too much direction to unnecessary crafting, refining etc.Giving unnecessary tools etc.
    The only things that you should focus on teaching and making player exposed to are: Gathering, Refining, Taming, Scribbing. Anything else should be only available after first month or so, unless a player choose to go that route specifically (offer it as an alternative route, but you also need to somehow explain the required time and money investment for it). I will make a separate suggestion thread for that.
    - After all the crafting tools that I was given from quests, the only one that I needed (Scribbing Quill) I had to buy.
    - There needs to be some sort of visual indication that some mob is harder than the other. At least any mobs that have "Boss" in their name and look exactly the same and named very similarly like their counterpart (e.g. Ogre Bully vs Ogre Boss). Simply changing the color of the club that he is holding would be sufficient.
    - As I took Title Quests since first day I logged in, I checked their progress and as I killed zombies, skeletons and goblins for some time, my progress is as following: Goblin Quest 20% complete; Zombie Quest: 33% complete. At this point spending time killing these mobs is basically same as stepping a big step back. The need to kill 200 mobs maybe made sense with slow character progression, for now I would really decrease these numbers to like 20% or even less (e.g. 30 Zombies and 5 Dire Zombies) etc. These titles in general offers a good example of how you can guide a player to certain path to discover certain mobs. While these are focused on stats, they can be expanded to just point people on the path to become "Fire Mage" (fire weak mobs) or a "Warrior" (melee-able mobs). I'm not yet sure about numbers of mobs in 2nd and 3rd level title quests, but with these numbers I wouldn't suggest anyone sane ever doing them. Additionally, consider updating title quest rewards to something like +5 / +10 / +20. For an endgame character it would not matter, as when you have 100 stats and buffs at 50-75 you can self-buff to 120 with a darkscepter. Vitality might be problematic as it might be like a go-to choice for end-game, but I'd just either remove it or make something like +5 / +10 but then allow to get it in 2 quests instead of 3. Having +20 certain stat would make a real difference for a newbie character. I would additionally rework the quests to make sure the mobs follow certain leveling path (Melee, Hybrid, Archery, Melee/Archery, Magic) and expose players to the mobs that are weak to it.
    - It feels weird that my self-buffs do not level at all and stay 1 even after whole day of use. With scrolls already being a good way to level them, you could enable their leveling from use, just make it very slow (even DF release slow if needed) so no one in the right mind would macro them, but you could feel that at least they are not always stuck at 1. Even minimal progress is better than feeling stuck at some point.
    - Give skillbooks to learn spells for certain quests at the start to guide player in getting useful stuff. This could be further extended by replacing "Service" tabs with "Skill Books", where you could buy and learn them later. This would also solve problem needing to come back to buy Durable Spells as I could just take the book with me.
    - Debuffs, same as heals and transfers should also have scrolls (I am not sure yet, but from what I read they do not). You can keep them leveling at the same rate, but otherwise you don't naturally spam them enough for them to level
    - Camera seems to always look behind when you rest. It is a bit annoying and I think should keep looking in the same direction
    - The mob sounds during "Charge to Melee" or "Enraged" mode could be added to more mobs.
    - The quests shouldn't force you to wait until the end of the timer to give them in if you have completed the results. I think the place for quests like these is when you actually want to limit the amount of times the quest is done.
    - Remove cancel button from "Mount Despawn" window, I think it's only purpose is so you can mis-click it.

    Not sure if:
    - Do melee sub-skills level main skill or still only mastery? It felt like the latter and if it is the case I feel like at least part of the gains should be added to Seize and Knockback, to make them worth the damage drop and so you could get used to leveling it.

    Anyway, these are some scraps from the ideas that I have and some might not align with the current direction of the game, so if that is the case, just let me know :)

    Another thing to add to the list:
    - Allow me to get my first bunny hop spell earlier. Shrapnel would be perfect in this case, but you also need to teach new players to use it via quest that triggers a tutorial and to make sure they do not treat it as damage spell. In similar sense Begone should also be available a bit earlier, as that is too much important skill and takes time to learn using.
     
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    #20 mrW, Oct 17, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2016
    ilLucien, Nat and Ramon Wolfs like this.